Guest dangerousandy Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I have a ST182 Celica GTi-16 UK spec which I have slowly been turning into a sort-of GT4 lookalike. I am now thinking of transplanting the 3S-GE for the turbocharged version from the GT4 and was wondering if anyone has done this before. I am guessing that most people will say sell the Celica and buy a proper GT4!! Well I dont want to do that as I have spent alot on my Celica and its in very good condition (see pics below!) Should I use the engine from a GT4 with my transmission and an ECU from a MR2 turbo, or am I barking up the wrong tree?! I think that the Celica handles very well for a front drive car and I'm sure it will cope with the extra power without needing the 4 wheel drive transmission, after all I had a Rover 800 Vitesse turbo with 250BHP and that was ok (apart from the torque steer ) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Close, but you'll have to get hold of an MR2 Turbo gearbox, the 3S-GE box won't mate straight up. ECU wise, either MR2 Turbo or GT4 but you'll more than likely have to do a little splicing to get things working quite right. It will torque steer like a bastard but it'll be good fun as a lot lot lighter than the lardy ST185 (no 4wd and narrow body too) and less transmission losses. Worth trying to find a CS/RC or ST205 chargecooler for it too, the ST185's standard A2A interwarmer is crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I was at TR&D in Nottingham today, where a guy who worked there had a 450bhp 3S-GTE shoe-horned into an old skool corolla which was still FWD! So shows it can be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2o2 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I was at TR&D in Nottingham today, where a guy who worked there had a 450bhp 3S-GTE shoe-horned into an old skool corolla which was still FWD! So shows it can be done Silver rolla? I was about to go 3sgte in my old celica and keeping it fwd , it can be done and has been done bud . I presume your talking about the engine from a st205 rather than the st185 ? http://www.celica-club.co.uk have a look there , loads of friendly info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Yep it was a silver corrolla IIRC Give TR&D a call on 0115 9680 666. Ian who runs the show is supposed to be the man when it comes to all things GT4 and 3S-GTE in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Ian who runs the show is supposed to be the man when it comes to all things GT4 and 3S-GTE in the UK. And also doesn't believe in torque wrenches. Take from that what you will, but I've known of him for many years and I wouldn't agree with the above statement. Celica Club for info on the conversion, but beware they will nearly all tell you you're best selling up and buying a GT4. Also the MR2 forums for decent info on the 3SGTE, they're way ahead of the GT4 guys in tuning their engines generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 And also doesn't believe in torque wrenches. Take from that what you will, but I've known of him for many years and I wouldn't agree with the above statement. Does that mean you dont rate they guy's workmanship or that you think he uses maverick methods or something?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 It means, as I said, I don't agree that he is 'the man' when it comes to all things GT4 and 3S-GTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hes pretty good though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 We're all entitled to our own opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safely Insured Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 An alternative would be a Toyota Camry 3.0L V6 conversion, that may be the cheapest option as well.. check out http://www.twobrutal.com for a engine swap friendly car club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzagt4 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Try this thread as it may help you out http://www.gt4oc.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=35250&hilit=gt4+convertable You may have to registar to read it but there are afew links to this mod on the GT4OC forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 There is a chap up this way that's put a few 3S-GTEs into Starlets and kept them FWD, a bit of a handful though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Have you spoken to Fensport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Have you spoken to Fensport? Yes, lovely chaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 we talking this kind of thing? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toyota-Celica-GT4-ST185-ST205-Convertion_W0QQitemZ180271202355QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180271202355&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzagt4 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 we talking this kind of thing? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toyota-Celica-GT4-ST185-ST205-Convertion_W0QQitemZ180271202355QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180271202355&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318 Dont think so, that is a ST205 engine from the later model GT-Four put into an old model. He is talking about putting a GT-Four engine into a normal FWD celica. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dangerousandy Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Dont think so, that is a ST205 engine from the later model GT-Four put into an old model. He is talking about putting a GT-Four engine into a normal FWD celica. Regards Yes, I am basically wanting to turbo charge my fwd Celica with any 3S-GTE engine, but the ST205 lump would be the best as its the most powerful stock version of the 3S-GTE lump. As for the V6 from a Camry, that is not an option!! a V6 in FWD is usually crap and in anycase I love Camry's and couldnt bring myself to cannibalise one - i'd probably sell the celica and keep the Camry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 The ST205 is the most powerful stock and has some nice features, but it's far from the best 3S-GTE. The head is good for flow, and the MAP system rather than MAF is good, ECU also seems to fuel fairly well. The block and pistons are the weak link though. Totally agree on the V6, bit of a heavy lump to have sitting in the nose of a Celica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 What is the best 3SGTE then? AFAIK all the previous versions of the 3S-GTE in 165 and 185 GT4s seemed to suffer from terrible headgasket problems. The ST205 seems as reliable as the 2JZ, just not as tuneable - 300bhp is all you're going to get out of stock internals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Different people will tell you different things. There's a well known issue with the casting on the ST205 block, the only way to tell if you've got one which will put up with abuse is to get it tested. I think they use sonar or x-ray or something bizarre. There were rumours that there was a thin-wall and a thick-wall block but these seem to be just that - rumours. More likely is that due to the way they are cast, some come out with thicker walls than others and will cope with higher boost and temperatures. Also, the supposedly 'ceramic coated' pistons in the ST205 are more prone to detonation that the previous two generations. As far as the strongest, that's well argued but some suspect the ST165 was the strongest. Problem is there's seldom few available now in good enough condition to tune heavily and I don't think (IIRC) that Toyota sell that block new any more. You will see over 300bhp on stock ST205 internals, but 350bhp would be pushing it to the limit. There was a car imported from Japan that was running high figures (I think around 400bhp) with lots of unknown mods and tuning. And when it was eventually opened up, was stock inside, so it is possible. Can't remember the guys name now though, was several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Didn't read the first sentence properly either. Only the ST185 is plagued with head gasket problems, and an ST205 headgasket (they are metal as standard) with properly torqued down new head bolts will see well over 300bhp no problem at all, over that you need ARP studs to stop the head lifting. It's nearly unknown of a ST165 head gasket to go. I've only ever heard of one and that was on a seriously mistreated engine. They tend to suffer more from big end rattles and failures, but a lot of that is down to the age, mileage and years of misuse now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Also, the supposedly 'ceramic coated' pistons in the ST205 are more prone to detonation that the previous two generations. I have to question why you say that when you can safely run 1.2 bar (fuel cut on st205s is over 1.2bar) boost on ST205s with stock fuelling. AFAIK previous GT4s could only run around about 1bar safely on stock fuelling. Is this down to the efficient charge cooling system on the ST205? In my laymans terms, I consider the ST205 engine to be the one i'd have for its generalstrenght in stock trim form. There seems to be many problems with 1980s toyota turbo engines which were rectified with their 1990s line of engines I'd quite like an 165 with a charge cooled ST205 3SGTE shoe-horned in Heres a pic of my mate's ST205: He's just had it decatted, has a blitz nur spec, panel filter and boost at 1.1 bar with a mbc and we suspect its running about 300bhp. Certainly feels like it and is a hoot to drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Not sure I explained that quite right, the ECU is capable of running more boost and fuelling it correctly, yes. But that has nothing to do with the pistons. However, when det does happen, the ST205 pistons are less well equipped to stand up to it than the other generations. IMO, the ST165 was the best to drive, I've had all three now and my girlfriend currently has a near-stock UK ST205, but the ST165 was much more fun and engaging. I've driven a couple of ST185's and they are by far my least favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Good job det doesnt happen with ST205s then as long as the boost is below 1.2 bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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