Doughie

Well it's clear to me that Racelogic SHOULD have done one of these two things : 1) Make it explicitly clear in the RL TC manual (as part of the calibration / setup section) that the system is set up for a 4-cylinder car with no injector-cut tables etc. and that you MUST load in a more appropriate file for your car before use, or edit the settings prior to use. 2) Pre-loaded the RL TC unit with the correct Supra file as they knew it was a Supra group-buy. Neither of the above was done in my case, and it was just down to my interest in the system that we found that the settings pre-loaded were unusable, and took action to get the right settings in the unit. I believe that Racelogic should either : i) pre-load the system with the appropriate settings for the car that it's being bought for OR ii) change the manual to make it much clearer that it's set-up for a 4-cylinder car with no cut settings etc OR (maybe the best option i think) iii) On the supplied floppy, supply 20 or 30 different DAT files specific for 20 or 30 different cars. The files are very small ( Then the user simply loads the DAT file that matches his car.

after my RL TC was installed yesterday we *immediately* saved the pre-loaded settings to a new DAT file. When we looked at the DAT file, it showed it was set-up for 4-cylinder engine, with no soft-cut, mo medium-cut, and no hard-cut. (in the sense that these were ALL set to "complete cut".) so i don't know if RL forget to pre-load the supra group-buy with their interpretation of the Supra settings, but it certainly seems that way as clearly using a system set-up for a 4-cylinder car on a Supra won't work very well..........

OK had my Racelogic Traction Control system fitted yesterday and it seems to work perfectly ! :) It was damp/wet roads on the drive back home so i could test it out a bit. The soft-cut level is really quite unobtrusive and doesn't distract from the driving. For the settings, I used essentially a version of Martin Fahie's DAT file. The items that will vary from car to car is the "reference / driven" wheels check-boxes, and also the "Side Assignment" section. Calibration Procedure notes for others : 1) After installing RLTC, Calibrate as per the RL TC manual. Once this is done, then connect a laptop to the RL TC system and load into Graham Rudd's nice applet (thanks Graham !) the settings from the RL TC system that has just finished being calibrated. 2) From this file, *note the settings in the lower half of the "Wheel Speed Sensor" tab* (in Graham Rudd's RLTC Settings.exe applet). 3) Then insert a floppy disk with a *known decent DAT file*, and edit the "Wheel Speed Sensor" settings on this "decent" file as per what you've just noted above in step 2. 4) Then save this file as a new DAT name, and Transmit it to the RL TC system so that's it's the 'live' file on the RLTC system. In this way, you will have the correct settings all saved, and transmitted to the RL TC system. One key note here is that we did think that the settings already pre-loaded onto the "Supra group-buy" RL TC system, were there or thereabouts. Well, THEY ARE NOT !! The RL TC system came set up for a 4-cylinder came, NO cut-tables etc.etc. Bottom line is after installation and calibration then you MUST load onto it a decent DAT file (Phil Wall or myself can supply decent DAT file). The system just will not work properly at all unless you use the right settings. you can't just "Calibrate and Go" - gotta load on a suitable DAT file for the Supra. Phil and I between us worked out the settings for the following items and these *do seem to work fine* so i would recommend them : Wheel Diameter driven : 636 (for 255/40/17's) Wheel Diameter Reference : 643 (for 235/45/17's) Pulses / Rev Driven : 48 Pulses / Rev Reference : 48 It's easy to work out your own correct wheel diameters using schoolboy maths, Pi=3.14, etc. remember that the "wheel diameter" is actually "wheel PLUS tyre" diameter. i.e. the "rolling diameter". Finally a very big thanks to Martin Fahie for his expert RL installation yesterday. He is very thorough and careful and did a quality job for a very reasonable fee. I can recommend him highly to anyone for this job (though not sure if he wants to do any more !!). Thanks also to Emma for a fab full English Breakfast, multiple coffees, and lunch too. (Edited by Doughie at 4:53 pm on Nov. 18, 2001) (Edited by Doughie at 10:32 am on Nov. 19, 2001)

Andrew I agree with the other comments that most likely you are hitting fuel-cut. Happily there is a solution : fit a fuel-cut defencer. visit : www.trlperformance.com where you can find some info on it. Look for : VFCC (Voltage Fuel Cut Controller) only 60 or 70 quid. this should stop your car going "bang" but you need to make sure you're not boosting too high so get a boost guage fitted too to monitor the boost you're getting, otherwise your car may go "bang" in a rather bigger way than it currently is........

60,000 miles is recommended max. interval for the *platinum-tipped* plugs. The platinum ones were standard on UK-specs (:biggrin:) but i don't think they were used in the J-specs (though i may be worng there). Non-platinum tipped plugs have a much shorter service life. Maybe 10-20,000 miles or so. I beleive the plug code for NGK is something like NGK BCPR7-ES. (that' for a grade 7 plug which is advisable if you're running above stock boost). "stock" plug grade is grade 6. That would be : NGK BCPR6-ES or similar.

Phil's right - I called Racelogic's technical dept. myself yesterday and they did not know the Pulses per revolution from the ABS system which is the only data source that RL uses to determine the differing wheel speeds ! So this is key info. nice one Phil for counting teeth in the cold and dark for the benefit of everyone with RL TC !!

It's your loss Ash. you could have won a fiver ! when are you going to make your expert services & knowledge of mkiv's available to the cash-rich group on this list ? i.e. work on members cars ? Leon is up to his eyeballs as usual. now J's car is more or less sorted i would have thought you'd have some cash-earning time on your hands.

heck I was only 13 out ... :wink:

Hang on !!! you can't keep me in suspense like this !!! What is the number in the end ? XP = ??

Hang on !!! you can't keep me in suspense like this !!! What is the number in the end ? XP = ??

My bet is that there are 34 or 35 teeth.

Let's hope that the UK-spec ABS sensor has the same pulse count as the J-spec. Only way to be sure (sigh..) is to check the ABS sensor on both the UK-spec and J-spec. Phil has got the J-spec covered I think. I may try to take the ABS sensor to bits on my UK-spec this w/e as I don't have a garage and so it's pitch-black in the week. Ash - can you help here ? do you know or can you find out how many metal teeth are on the cog in the ABS sensor on the J-spec AND on the UK-spec ?

yep JB, will be v interesting to see what you make of the new settings that you've got from Phil. I think it should be a big improvement. I'm still working with Phil on identifying all the best settings for the Supra and there are several areas worht looking at and we'll be sure to advise everyone if we find anything worth changing. cheers

OK some more info here. Rang Racelogic this morning and they confirmed the the RL TC units supplied for the Supras (as a group buy) should have pre-loaded appropriate settings on them. BUT theses settings are NOT saved onto the floppy disk supplied, so it would be a v v good idea for anyone to save these settings (via the supplied lead, a laptop, and Graham Rudd's nice little *freeware* app) as soon as they can. With regards to the parameters available, I was trying something out and now, having spoken to Racelogic i know how the following 3 things interact : A) The slip amount dialled in by the driver (0%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%) B) The 3 levels of fuel-injector cut : soft, medium, hard C) Each level of cut (soft, medium, hard) has it's OWN %value of ADDITIONAL slip assigned. By default these are 5%, 10%, 15% What happens is that whatever level of slip dialled in (A), the Racelogic unit decides what level of cut to use by ADDING TO THAT VALUE (A) the value ©, and when the resulting value is reached, then it initiates the appropriate level of cut. eg. The driver dials in 10% rear-wheel slip. Let's assume the driver boots it hard on a slippy road and the rear wheels start to spin. THe following will happen: 1) Less than *15%* (i.e. 10+5 where A=10, C=5) rear-wheel slip = no cut 2) 15-20% (i.e. A10 + C5) rear-wheel slip = soft cut 3) 20-25% (i.e. A10 + C10) rear-wheel slip = medium cut 4) 25%+ (i.e. A10 + C15) rear-wheel slip = hard cut You can change the values © assigned to each of these soft,medium,hard levels of cut, by using Graham Rudd's applet, and downloading the modified DAT file into the RL unit. it is interesting to note that even when the driver dials in "wet" i.e. 0%, there is NO CUT UNTIL 5% slip is reached. Also another setting that is very interesting is that the RL unit knows when you're going round a corner as opposed to a straight line, by comparing the wheel speeds on each side of the car. When it knows that you're travelling in a straight line, it ADDS an additional % slip value to the dialled in values as more wheel-slip is fine in a straight line but isn't such a great idea when cornering hard. This value is, as default 5%. phew. this all makes sense now to me, hope it does to others too ! The RL TC manual is reasonably clear, but i wasn't sure how the above worked exactly until i called RL today.

Phil Have just emailed you the STANDARD.DAT file from my (untouched) floppy disk. am interested in what is on it ! Surely you mean "diameter" of the wheel ? I worked my rear wheel to be 637mm *diameter* but 1997mm *circumference*.

PS is *metric* horsepower. To convert PS to Bhp, multiply by 0.9863. eg. stock UK Supra = 326bhp = 330.5 PS

snow chains. warm blanket. emergency flares. orange survival suit.

aha !

All I want is to find out the truth as to at what boost a UK MKiv TT will start running lean, that's all. - really doesn't matter who's right, just want to know !

OK I am just trying to reconcile the following 2 statements/opinions : Ash : "I now know, for a absolute fact, that there is NO excess fuelling with the MKIV. The moment the fuel-cut threshhold is surpassed, the motor quickly begins to run lean" Pete : "I was running 1.2Kg/cm2 and the AFR never budged from full on RICH." Now, I know that one car was a VVTi and the other wasn't and Pete was using the stock O2 sensor which apparently isn't that accurate, blah blah. BUT the above 2 observations/statements/opinions do seem to directly contradict each other. If there is no excess fuelling above fuel-cut (14psi ish) on a mkiv, HOW can Pete's car be running RICH ay 1.2kgcm2 ? seems to me that SOMEONE must be wrong. (noting the above caveats). since as someone else has already remarked, that almost all of us are running boost levels above fuel-cut, by definition, we are all very interested in hard facts on this fuelling issue. Pls could Ash and Pete suggest why there is clearly a big difference between their 2 experiences. (Edited by Doughie at 9:49 am on Nov. 7, 2001)

you can get the spoiler to deploy when the car is stationary but switching the ignition on, (engine OFF), and pressing the "manual down" button. I think that's how you do it. this feature is there so you can clean the active spoiler. (The spoiler will retract again when the engine is started) This won't tell you if it's deploying at speed, but certainly if it ain't moving when stationary then it probably won't be coming out at speed. Either try the above OR get a mate to drive along in convoy and tell you if the spoiler comes out aboe 60 or 65mph.

Yep what i would do going forward is to take the mileage reading *exactly* and write that down on the instructions to them and say "DO NOT ROAD-TEST THE CAR", and agree that with them in advance. They may try to say "it's part of the service" but tell them you specifically do not want the car roadtested and you have recorded the mileage too. Second, I would instruct them that the DSBC is NOT to be touched at all, and agree that up front. Since it's an aftermarket device, there is no reason for them to touch it. take a note of all DSBC readings before leaving the car, (do not tell them the readings that you have taken). Sounds like they've adjusted your clutch badly too, which explains the kangaroo hopping. I know that Eric Kasir who had the car before you thought that TW Hawkins were quite good. Somewhere South of where Eric lives. I'm sure he can help here and maybe give you their number. I too have had a bad experience with Toyota. they did NOT tighten the sumplug and it almost fell out. it was so loose i could unscrew it with 2 fingers. Also they lost a wheel-nut of my left-rear wheel. I only found that out months later when i checked the wheels. Basically my take is that they give the "simple" stuff to some 18yr opld apprentice who doesn't care or doesn't know how to do the basics. really really pathetic.

some more info from others about EGT maximum temps. Arnout and Justin both say "950 deg. Celsius is absolute MAX." (950C = 1742F). also: "925 max. is preferable which is 1700F." and from Nathan : Does anyone know what the 'safe limit' is for EGT's on a MK4? My gauge is plumbed in before the turbo on the manifold if that makes any difference to readings. >> Hi Paul, Well, my recommendation is 950 deg.C. My personal highest is 925 and that was flat out from 2nd to just changing into 6th. It may have gone a bit higher in 6th but I never got the chance. I'm happy that for the amount of time I am ever likely to be in 6th the EGT's would be fine, though I would like to do a re-test on a stinking hot day just to be sure. If it does start creeping up to say, 975 for any sort of real time I may need to use intercooler water spray (a use for the headlight washers I 'spose!) , or as a last resort, water injection. Cheers, Nathan. (Edited by Doughie at 12:47 pm on Nov. 4, 2001)

think Chris W. is saying that the EGT probe should be tapped into the exhaust manifold as close as poss to the cylinder head/block, before the turbos and before the downpipe. (to be honest i'm not even too sure where the turbos *are* in this whole arrangement ! does the exhaust partly go to the turbos and partly down the downpipe ? Who are you going to get it done for you Gav ?

Chris Wilson on EGT install : > On a MkIV is it possible to put the probe in top of the first section of > downpipe after the cast manifold, or is that just too far away to get a good > reading? If you mean AFTER the turbos this is no good. The turbos take a lot of heat from the exhaust gasses and also act as thermal dampers. You must probe before the turbos, as near to the ports as possible. Pro dyno sessions on new engine configs will probe each port individually for mixture and EGT. and C.Wilson again on EGT temps (these are in FAHRENHEIT, not Celsius !!) About 1000 is fine idle pottering temp, 1400 is getting pretty warm, sort of hard running temp, 1800 plus is meltdown time ;-) All in degrees Fahrenheit.