NA ALL ENGINE Max Power

building an all engine monster. my goal is 400hp no nos, no blowers.

Why, well, 225hp isnt enough, and I was asked to join acircuit racing and show team.

I already had, due to the previous owner

4" blitz exhaust (i dont know if its catsback, I know I have 2 cats in ay-back formation, but they covered in grim and I dont know if stock)

a voltage stabilizer (whats this do, should i though it away?? sounds like HS to me)

so yesterday I ordered this.

walbro fuel pump

fuel damper bypass line

Cam gears (int and exh)

and an SAFCII

next week I plan on these

intake filter (taking recomendations, but I want clean performance)

electric waterpump (takes off crank)

stainless 3" downpipe (cuts the cats out)

and in the near future I plan on

suspension/brake package

**torque converter **

ignition kit and harness (twin power)

lightened flywheel for 5-speed.

**chipset**

**fpr**

my questions.

The chipset I'm looking at, I'm sure that all it does is re-calibrate the fuel management, so should I even get it if Im using a SAFCII

http://www.performancepartswholesal...it~ parts.html

I may be wrong on this chipsets function, please tell me if I am.

and last is the FPR, fuel pressure regulator, I herd these are for turbo/supercharger apps only, and I've also heard otherwise. I am not to sure on the function of these other than the name itself. so do you guys think its a worth-while purchase?

looking at this http://www.titanmotorsports.com/a1inbyre1.html

ADs:cool:

400 bhp normally aspirated, im no expert but i think you are going to need some serious engine work for that figure.

Sounds interesting though.

I've got a feeling that you'll find it hard to get much over 100bhp per litre without forced induction of some kind.

Good luck though. Hope you do it.

Hiya,

Sounds like an interesting project.

Just to save you some time, you can't fit a torque convertor to a manual - its for autos only.

Regards,

Gaz.

Hiya,

 

Sounds like an interesting project.

 

Just to save you some time, you can't fit a torque convertor to a manual - its for autos only.

 

Regards,

 

Gaz.

I think 400 is a bit too optimistic, i know there was a japanese NA car with ~380 hp. i saw it somewhere on the supraforums.com

If it was me i`d go this way http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/Toyota/Supra_93-98/HorsepowerFreaks/Turbos/Turbo_Kits/part/NA-T_Stage_One_350-450rwhp

new kit from them, supposed to be a lot easier than before, no drilling oil returns, no new injectors etc

Chipset sounds great

Sorry fella, but 400bhp na with 3 litres just ain't gonna happen. However, if you do achieve it, you may have some interested manufacturers on your doorstep!

What about buying a stroker kit? 3.0 -> 3,4 liter! NA! i really would like to know how that would be :9

Welcome Supra01.

Yes this power IS acheivable, F1 cars get can get a mere 700ponies from just 3 litres. However the money required to do this would run into around 20k just on the engine build alone.

There is NO way you can acheive this figure with just using bolt on parts. You would, as discussed, need forced induction or spray.

Hope this helps.

Just to get anywhere near that figure you are going to need some serious engine work! and throttle bodies as a minimum, and you may need NOS on top of that! so super strong internals, and i do hope the exhaust you have is a 4" tip! if its the pipework diameter you will loose power/torque! you want under 3" for N/A or it won't pull until late rpm.

Yes this power IS acheivable, F1 cars get can get a mere 700ponies from just 3 litres.

Fair point. I should have elaborated and kept it to the supra engine.

What about buying a stroker kit? 3.0 -> 3,4 liter! NA! i really would like to know how that would be :9

Yep that is what I was just about to refer too, I think it's HKS that are doing this for the tt?? but they should definately bring this out for the n/a, it would be a great route to go down.

Found some info for you mate,

it is HKS and apparently it will fit an n/a they mention a $10,000 bill for it and I coudln't tell you anything on compressions as I dont understand that yet!

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190909&highlight=3.4+stroker+kit

also see this thread,

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=19563&highlight=tuning+n%2Fa

lotta info which may help, I think the best you could do all motor wise is probably about 300rwhp, which I guess on a manual would be around 360/370bhp? the next best thing to do would be to strip it out, as the n/a depending on model is around 1400kg base weight so that would be pretty quick, probably as quick as a bpu supe presuming you can get that 300rhwp.

And honestly I think n/a power is much better used on a circuit.

good luck!

unless uve got lots and lots of dosh, it is possible. have a look at this link in supraforums. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221891&highlight=400hp This car has got individual throttle bodies! Loads of money spent.

This has been asked loads and loads of time. loads of ppl have thought they can make this na power machine but everybody have just given up and gone turbo instead. The cost for a good turbo kit ~$4-5k with a T61 run that easily. Bits for that na power: stroker kit, lightweight rods, pistons, pullies, cam gears, cams, xerd headers, remove cats......strip the interior. That is gonna be expensive easily >£10000

Good luck.

building an all engine monster. my goal is 400hp no nos, no blowers.

 

Why, well, 225hp isnt enough, and I was asked to join acircuit racing and show team.

 

I already had, due to the previous owner

 

4" blitz exhaust (i dont know if its catsback, I know I have 2 cats in ay-back formation, but they covered in grim and I dont know if stock)

a voltage stabilizer (whats this do, should i though it away?? sounds like HS to me)

 

 

so yesterday I ordered this.

 

walbro fuel pump

fuel damper bypass line

Cam gears (int and exh)

and an SAFCII

 

 

next week I plan on these

 

intake filter (taking recomendations, but I want clean performance)

electric waterpump (takes off crank)

stainless 3" downpipe (cuts the cats out)

 

 

and in the near future I plan on

 

suspension/brake package

**torque converter **

ignition kit and harness (twin power)

lightened flywheel for 5-speed.

**chipset**

**fpr**

 

 

 

 

my questions.

 

The chipset I'm looking at, I'm sure that all it does is re-calibrate the fuel management, so should I even get it if Im using a SAFCII

http://www.performancepartswholesal...it~ parts.html

I may be wrong on this chipsets function, please tell me if I am.

 

and last is the FPR, fuel pressure regulator, I herd these are for turbo/supercharger apps only, and I've also heard otherwise. I am not to sure on the function of these other than the name itself. so do you guys think its a worth-while purchase?

looking at this http://www.titanmotorsports.com/a1inbyre1.html

 

ADs:cool:

MMmmmm NA with Throttle Bodies, imagine that.....??

NA's can be had for a couple of grand nowadays, might be fun to try it.

Has anyone actually done that yet?

Edit: To say so has been done before....

Based on a fairly "cooking" BMEP curve (i.e. no VVTi or anything fancy, a'la 2JZGE) to get 400bhp you would need to:

1) Find a way of increasing your BMEP to 20 at the peak power speed. That's not going to happen. Even fancy NA engines only get up around 13.

...or...

2) Rev it to 10000RPM. Lots of internal work required.

...or...

3) Bore and stroke it up to 5.5litres

Or of course a combination of lesser degrees of all three. However you look at it, its going to be big bucks and the engine would probably only last a few hours anyway.

lol @ this thread...More BHP/litre than MacF1 lol...out of a 15year old engine design....

You'll not see more than 230 with the mods you've outlined.

walbro fuel pump - that's fine

fuel damper bypass line - why??? you do not have any problems with fuel supply on an NA.

Cam gears (int and exh) - what make? Adjustable? Pointless changing them imo.

and an SAFCII - erm why, again, it's not like Toyota limited this engine through it's ECU....or anyother facet of it. A S-AFC can only adjust fuelling...what are your AFR's like? I'd be surprised if there was a problem with them and if there is it's probably your MAF/O2 sensor being dirty/old.

next week I plan on these

intake filter (taking recomendations, but I want clean performance) - Nice clean one from Toyota. Don't get an induction kit they are not worth it...infact you'll lose power.

electric waterpump (takes off crank) - Race car only mod IMO. Have you found one you can fit to the Supra?

stainless 3" downpipe (cuts the cats out) - that's fine...

and in the near future I plan on

suspension/brake package - See Chris Wilson

**torque converter ** - NOOO

ignition kit and harness (twin power) - It won't help at all....infact you're using a Dizzy which isn't applicable to a DLI!

lightened flywheel for 5-speed. - Just make sure it's not a cheap one...JUN make a Chromoly one.

**chipset** - Forget it...why do people always assume the manufacturers always get things wrong?

**fpr** - Why? What's wrong with the stock one?

Thoughout this list you seem to be going for the fuel system...and there's nothing wrong with it....you're wasting money and effort. The only way to get an NA to fly is to turbo it, there are kits out there, talk to Vortex.

electric waterpump (takes off crank) - Race car only mod IMO. Have you found one you can fit to the Supra?

There is one Alex, and MVP have sold it for years. Around $400 IIRC....

Think it was proved to be a money wasting mod though.

Certainly, it's a novel and noble idea; but by the time you have got the car to performance close to that of the TT, you'd have spent enough to have a big power single to yourself with change left over!

I've got a feeling that you'll find it hard to get much over 100bhp per litre without forced induction of some kind.

 

Good luck though. Hope you do it.

I squezed nearly 200 out of my 205GTi I did spend a bomb on it though