Mike B Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 Well just be careful... is what i would say..... it would be interesting to do some testing on the effects the lambda values go up and down with injecting various quanity's on methanol.... no good on my setup as the ecu is adaptive, and will always adjust to make 11.3 on the lambda reading it gets. Still the car has a knock throttle shutdown just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I am of course using a big jet size for that.. but its very noticeable and well worth the investiment in my book..... I'd be careful using methanol as it could have adverse effects on lambda probe readings.. I.E reading false ones.... And we wouldn't want that now would we. What size jet are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 no good on my setup as the ecu is adaptive, and will always adjust to make 11.3 on the lambda reading it gets. Still the car has a knock throttle shutdown just in case. I think methonal will make the reading show richer. My ECU is not setup to modify on the fly like yours but when its back on the road I will compare AFRs with the water/meth on and off, not sure with the aquamist kit the size of the nozzle would make much difference though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 no good on my setup as the ecu is adaptive, and will always adjust to make 11.3 on the lambda reading it gets. Still the car has a knock throttle shutdown just in case. Does that mean it self mapping on open loop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I think methonal will make the reading show richer. My ECU is not setup to modify on the fly like yours but when its back on the road I will compare AFRs with the water/meth on and off, not sure with the aquamist kit the size of the nozzle would make much difference though. I'm using a 1mm jet which is the biggest size are most affective, Wez is right methanol as its high octane will make the lambda values very rich.... I find water on its own very effective, why complicate things by using a different type of fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Does that mean it self mapping on open loop? Does the Ecu have an auto tune facility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Does the Ecu have an auto tune facility? The Fcon V Pro - when setup by an expert - can be trusted to learn to a degree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 The Fcon V Pro - when setup by an expert - can be trusted to learn to a degree... Not to sure i'd trust any ECU to learn especially if its dealing with different fuels on a single map Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 Not to sure i'd trust any ECU to learn especially if its dealing with different fuels on a single map Surely it must be better than a fixed map and one eye on a afr guage. Take my turbo swap.. a little tweaking to the fuel pressure, and the hks has the car mapped perfectly, no tuner required! 11.3 right through the gear, just like it says on the tin! I ran it out of petrol a while ago.. (broken guage) it took me a tank of v max to get it back to where I started though. It tried to learn to run on no fuel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Not to sure i'd trust any ECU to learn especially if its dealing with different fuels on a single map It's got a few different maps for fuels. Terry had it setup properly, a toggle switches between the maps. The ECU can use the target AFR map to self monitor via the WB02's data... This means the map stays accurate despite any environmental changes and even airflow changes through slight modifications. I believe Mike took advice/a new map off the original mapper (US based expert that Terry flew in). It's safe and far more accurate than non learning systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 It's got a few different maps for fuels. Terry had it setup properly, a toggle switches between the maps. The ECU can use the target AFR map to self monitor via the WB02's data... This means the map stays accurate despite any environmental changes and even airflow changes through slight modifications. I believe Mike took advice/a new map off the original mapper (US based expert that Terry flew in). It's safe and far more accurate than non learning systems. To be honest matey there are 2 maps, one is concervative map, in terms of ignition, which terry used but said was pretty bad compared to the aggressive version, which can hit the det sensors under extreme conditions. Because the system has a failsafe we can use and aggressive map and get away with it. The system has an ignition retard rotary dial which can pull the timing back a bit if it hits the limit more often, but you do feel the difference. Hopefully the WI will allow me to use the more aggressive map all the time. I'll still consider a bit of race fuel for trackdays. The afr trimming by the Fcon allows the map to change according to barametric pressure as well as temperature, but I have no experience of using a static map. Do others find changes in afr summer to winter, sea level to lake district? Reg was all up for coming over and remapping, but one look at Terry's reciept for the original job had me following Terry's advice of letting the HKS remap... it's done a sterling job so far.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 To be honest matey there are 2 maps, one is concervative map, in terms of ignition, which terry used but said was pretty bad compared to the aggressive version, which can hit the det sensors under extreme conditions. Because the system has a failsafe we can use and aggressive map and get away with it. The system has an ignition retard rotary dial which can pull the timing back a bit if it hits the limit more often, but you do feel the difference. Hopefully the WI will allow me to use the more aggressive map all the time. I'll still consider a bit of race fuel for trackdays. The afr trimming by the Fcon allows the map to change according to barametric pressure as well as temperature, but I have no experience of using a static map. Do others find changes in afr summer to winter, sea level to lake district? Reg was all up for coming over and remapping, but one look at Terry's reciept for the original job had me following Terry's advice of letting the HKS remap... it's done a sterling job so far.... Interesting, Please keep us informed how u get on with methanol... I have my suspicions on what it does to Lambda.. but i'd like to be proved wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 I think methonal will make the reading show richer. Wez, just out of interest is it altering the O2 reading beacuse; There is more combustable fuel in the mix, hence less oxygen out of the other side? or The chemical components in the methanol are interacting with the O2 sensor to give inaccurate results? If it is the latter that's a worry, but if it is the former that's probably good, as the car would just re-adjust.. the only thing that would change is the fact the intake charge should be much, much colder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Methonal is fuel as your injecting more fuel your afr will read richer but this does not mean you want to lean out the AFR. When tuning with meth you want to aim for a afr of around 10.7 - 11.0 as the meth actual makes the combustion leaner but does not show this on the o2 readings Because of methanols higher stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. The low boiling points and high vapor pressures of methyl create a better combustion efficiency in turn increasing EGT's. This is why water and meth mix are used together as the water helps to keep the EGT's safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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