Wez Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by millhouse the dyno runs go in order of the colour dots on the left of the results sheet red, green, blue Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_Devlin Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Wez Ahh i see, really need someone a bit more technical to look these over. The top shows a an increase in temp with both turbos online, I am guessing that this is because the amount of airflow has doubled. The bottom one start to climb in the same way but then drops off, not sure why that is. What was the power figure for both runs? The power and torque figures for both runs were almost identical. The car ran lean once number 2 turbo came on line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_Devlin Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 And the fuelling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 If I am reading those graphs correctly on the second run the car was hotter, leaner and produced slightly more power and torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Branners your sure about that stock boost? The Veilside exhaust should have given an extra 1psi or so as the toyota system is quite restrictive compared to the aftermarket units. JB Yeah John, stays around the 0.8 mark.. on Thors the boost seems to stay higher for longer, and starts droping off at 6k revs, rather than the 5600 rpm at G-Force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 the air temp is the intake (pre filter) temp not at manifold (post turbo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by eyefi the air temp is the intake (pre filter) temp not at manifold (post turbo). OK so only shows how much heat is under the bonnet and absolutely nothing about the effeciency of the intercooler. EDIT: this would also explain the drop in temp as more air is pulled over the sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_Devlin Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Should have done some measurments on the temps before and after changing the IC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I'd just like to say that G-Forces system (supports over 1000rwhp) is a lot more advanced that many rolling roads in this country. I'm happy to stand by their figures whereas I'd raise serious eyebrows at Michaels 500+ figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I thought G-Force had a dynapack dyno the same as THOR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Their stuff is Dyno Dynamics, also an Aussie system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Bobbeh I'd just like to say that G-Forces system (supports over 1000rwhp) is a lot more advanced that many rolling roads in this country. I'm happy to stand by their figures whereas I'd raise serious eyebrows at Michaels 500+ figures I agree with Bobbeh the G Force figures made sense and seemed realistic. Trying to interpret the THOR figures seems to be a nightmare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Why is it a nightmare, the powertorque_2.jpg image posted shows at the top that this is crank power whch most dynos show. EDIT: that should be fly wheel, sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Wez Why is it a nightmare, the powertorque_2.jpg image posted shows at the top that this is crank power whch most dynos show. EDIT: that should be fly wheel, sorry Cos the original figures seemed so high and then everyone is trying to workout a formula to convert them to make some sense.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Could be because the dyno is bolted direct onto the hub that it is measuring less loss than other dynos that measure at the wheel. I kinda see what you mean now, does anyone have dyno report for THOR and another dyno with the same car and spec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Well you could use mine and Wipeouts stock 6 speeds as a comparison. (both stock UK 6 speeds) Mine was 265rwhp at G-Force, and Wipeouts 293 rhhp at Thor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Bobbeh Well you could use mine and Wipeouts stock 6 speeds as a comparison. (both stock UK 6 speeds) Mine was 265rwhp at G-Force, and Wipeouts 293 rhhp at Thor. So not exactly a small difference then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 I didn't think that the Thor figures quoted flywheel or crank figures at all, I thought they only showed rhhp figures (hence this thread)? Darren - I wouldn't say the Thor figures are a nightmare. The figures obtained are bound to be higher than traditional rwhp measurements, but it doesn't mean they can't be trusted. In fact, potentially, measuring at the hub presumably takes out a load of variables. The only problem is the lack of cars tested with known crank bhp figures or known rwhp figures. Once we get a few more we should be able to convert the figures - at least roughly. Regards, Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Wez Could be because the dyno is bolted direct onto the hub that it is measuring less loss than other dynos that measure at the wheel. I kinda see what you mean now, does anyone have dyno report for THOR and another dyno with the same car and spec? Wes - look back to the first post - that's what I was trying to base a conversion on. i.e. Bobbeh and wipeout's. Edited to make sense. Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 i wouldnt bother with crank or flywheel numbers, they r always gonna b guesses unless its from an engine dyno (like we r ever gonna see many of them). thor measures hub power. the text on the graphs is incorrect, they r definately hub figures. hub measurement does remove alot of wheel and tyre variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by eyefi thor measures hub power. the text on the graphs is incorrect, they r definately hub figures. hub measurement does remove alot of wheel and tyre variables. OK thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ayling Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Interesting thread. Everyone should post their dyno graphs into the Dyno Results thread in the multimedia gallery, that would make them all a lot easier to compare - if anyone needs some webspace to host them on they can either use http://www.showoffyourcar.com or send them to me to host... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 All IMHO, so please don't get funny if u don't agree I've been having a nose around and looking at people's graphs and car specs etc. For us to make reasonable/fair comparisons between each other (boost/exhaust/IC's/etc) we must stick to the hub figures as any "guesstimates" will only introduce error and uncertainty. However, for the sake of "pub boasting".... I don't think the straight percentage correction (eg add 15%) is a valid one. The idea that a high powered well built engine and drivetrain could lose a lot more power than an older car with much lower power does not seem logical. I think we should consider a certain hp loss figure across all mkiv's and also a percentage loss on top of that to account for what extra power is indeed lost as crank power increases (be it increased heat/noise/vibration etc) Having played around a bit i think this seems a fairly useful "correction": (Hub Horsepower x 1.06) + 18 = Flywheel power eg Hub Flywheel 280 315 300 336 330 368 350 389 380 421 400 442 430 474 450 495 You may or may not agree with this, and i'm sure some people may think the figures are too low. However, don't forget Bobbeh's car was only losing 30-35bhp from flywheel to hubs. (Assuming healthy flywheel power of 320-325). What do you reckon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Now that's what I was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_Devlin Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I cant beleive that there is a 20-25% loss between the transmission and the hubs. Especially when you look at my figures. That means with BPU mods my car is putting out over 440 bhp!!! Unlikely. I would think that the majority of the loss is due to the inefficiency of transmitting the power through the wheels. Although I'm speaking from absolutely no technical background in this field at all I would think that a more likely figure is around the 10% figure. Would it be a linear correlation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.