Gazboy Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 It looks like all three are in incredibly deep poo. This time last year everyone thought 3 would become 2, but which two was anyone's guess, now it looks like only Ford may survive. If one goes under it is bad, if two go under it is really bad, and if all three go under it'll make Lehmans look like a warm up act. Like the game "7 degrees of Kevin Bacon" I wonder how many degrees of separation from The Big Three 'you' need to have to be ok? Who will go first? My money is on GM going before Bush does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multics Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 As far as I know they were in deep poo already way before the whole credit crunch / global recession thing. They can only do worse now unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 oooh cheap vets.... on another note yes it really is bad however not suprised at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 That'll be why they ceased production of the ZR1 then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 An interesting read: http://blogs.motortrend.com/6350673/editorial/fixing-detroit-of-course-its-easy/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I was reading about that last night, some interesting points of view generally around the world regarding the impact of those three.... Lot more interesting stuff to come me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 I was reading about that last night, some interesting points of view generally around the world regarding the impact of those three.... Lot more interesting stuff to come me thinks. What surprises me is the "I'm alright Jack" attitude because so many think this won't affect them. GM have a finger in every US pension scheme pie, some UK pension schemes are tied in with US schemes is just one example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 What surprises me is the "I'm alright Jack" attitude because so many think this won't affect them. GM have a finger in every US pension scheme pie, some UK pension schemes are tied in with US schemes is just one example. Oh indeed, there are huge amounts of money tied up in some of these huge companies, such as GE, Siemens, just to name a few. Pretty much everyone will have a connection to GE in the UK (Not sure how many people actually realize that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonto_HAS_soop Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I try to read up on this everyday at work, with the odd 5 minutes here and there. It is sad to see car giants in this situation, but what with the banks being in trouble too, it was always likely to come around and kick someone in the arse, the fact that GM are still producing cars at the same volume they were before they stopped selling cars just goes to show how stupid they are. Had they cut production, and therefore staff, like most UK and European based OEMs are, they would of cut their overheads significantly. This would of also stopped them having to spend millions of dollars coming up with benefit packages for the dealerships, in order to try and get them to buy the cars that they have built (Some of the dealerships in the US have started to value themselves at $0, they have become that unprofitable). What happens if GM don't get the $25 billion required (which is more like $30b when you consider they need $15b to get through this year, $5n to get through next year and $7b to sort out the pension schemes they have)? They will fold very early next year and with just the failure of GM put a strain of nearly $160b on the US economy, that is excluding the total obliteration of the 1st tier suppliers whose collapse will cause the fall of almost all of the other US OEMs. With regards to all those outside of the big 3, I agree in the principles that the European OEMs are trying to ensure are upheld, they watching the situation to ensure that the US OEMs don't get some dodgy backhanders in order to survive, when the same will not be given to them. I also agree in the principles of the US government for not giving the big 3 any money just yet (One question given to the top 3 US OEMs at the last meeting was "Will you give up your private jets and take a $200 economy flight home", all said no), the situation needs to be pruned from the internals of the big 3, something that should of happened long ago instead of burying their heads in the sand. I'm unsure as to what will end the situation, I cannot see the likes of GM dissapearing, ownership may change in some backdoor method of getting US governmental aid, but they will not cease to exist, the US, European and World automotive markets need them so as not to bring the entire car market crumbling. Saying all that, I will have to check to see if I am still employed at the end of the year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well, they got their money and so it begins... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7809212.stm Interestingly enough they also provided Cerebus with some 'loan cash' The US Treasury has also provided a rescue package for GMAC - General Motors' troubled car loan arm, which is co-owned by Chrysler's owner, Cerberus Capital Management. And of the course the list of industries Cerebus is involved with is.... Aerospace and Defense Apparel Automotive and Industrial Building Products Commercial Services Consumer and Retail Financial Services Healthcare Manufacturing and Distribution Paper, Packaging and Printing Real Estate Technology and Telecommunications Transportation Travel and Leisure And so it starts...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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