White Weapon - 2JZ Forged VVTi NA-T Build

[AC93]

Hi all,

 

Been on the forum for over 4 years now and been meaning to do this thread for a while! Some of you may know I recently sold my factory stock TT auto to fund a house deposit (all sorted! ) I knew this day would come so a couple years ago I purchased a back up Supra!

 

This is the day I bought it in 2017 (through Keron)

 

 

N/A 5 speed with leathers and a facelift front end, TRD spoiler, Finichi wheels, looks stunning .. visually there was nothing I wanted to change!

 

 

Drove it on the dry weekends for a year and didn't do much to it apart from:

 

Servicing, new alternator and the water pump had a drip leak and killed it, new Whifbitz radiator in 2018 in preperation for the turbo build!

 

Went to a meet in MK and someone snapped this, probably one of my favourite photos

 

 

 

The first decision was to decide how much power I wanted to make, I settled on 650bhp. So the plan was (with my friend Dave who is doing an identical build, Dave_Batch) to refresh the bottom end with all ARP bits, new piston rings, GTE oil pump etc. etc.

 

But then I noticed a few NA-T builds going KABOOOM at around this power level. I didn't want to risk it, didn't fancy tripling the bhp/torque on 25year old pistons and rods... and just as importantly - which gearbox?!

 

I decided on a E46 M3 6 speed manual gearbox, I found one through the forum here as a full kit, plan was to get the kit fitted and run it as a NA/6 speed to make sure the box was all okay and I was happy with it before splashing the cash on anything else.

 

Gearbox kit arrives:

 

 

THE BEGINNING ON THE BS LIES AND HASSLE

 

Now before I start this part. I don't want comments of "slander" or "hate" or "ruining rep". Because 1, it's none of that as it's all 100% fact. 2, I have screenshots of absolutely everything said, saved on my phone and emails even though the comments and posts have now been edited/deleted.

 

So I got chatting to a few people on here and via Facebook and there was a company called Gyrodrift that had quite a drift cars with 2J's and they were all having BMW conversions.. I didn't hear many bad review about the box at all, and on the other forum they were holding good power!

 

Got a call back from a guy called Frazer Pells, his knowledge about it all was really good, he knew the details about the whole conversion, had apparently done many of them and spent a bit of time over the phone going through all the parts I'd need and what the cost was going to be.

 

A year later this business has gone bust, and I know Ben Harmer has done his thread about the hassle he had at the place. So I left it for a while as I didn't know where to go that had the experience...

 

Through the Supra FB group... I find Frazer again! He's got his own place now (Spec Motorsport) where he is working on cars and split up with the other people from Gyrodrift, so got chatting about the BMW conversions and arranged to get the car and box dropped off as he moved in to his new premise with all new ramps/dyno etc etc.

 

So me, Dave and Elliot with our M3 conversion kits, loaded up Daves truck and went down to Kent!

 

 

We dropped the cars off on DECEMBER 4th 2018, and because of Xmas it would take about 4 weeks and our cars would be the first ones to be worked on. Okey dokey then, I expected it to be mid-Jan as Elliot was already NA-T and having a map and injectors done too.. Oh how wrong we all were!

 

It was just none stop problem after problem:

 

- Apparently my propshaft which came off a running Supra was wrong, I needed a new one - Now I was 4 hours away so wasn't going to make the trip to check. So new half propshaft for me - £255

- Gearbox mount I had was also wrong apparently (V160 mount modified).. so he made a new custom one for me - £100

- Gearbox rubbers - £15

 

I paid it and said to crack on, it was mid January at this point.

 

Elliots car (already at 400bhp) had the injectors fitted and then 'it went on the dyno' (no pics or vids or proof) and it made 500hp (was shown a random dyno sheet with no reg/proof it was this car). Then the ignition had issues to be safe Frazer pulled the power down to 380/400 again. I know, it sounds odd to me too.

 

By this point we're told every 10 days 'Cars will be ready next weekend' ..they never were. Kept getting told the propshaft shop were being slow, every other day. Then there's a problem with Daves bellhousing and he needed a bearing for something that another shop was sorting.

 

February passes and no ones car is ready yet. We're starting to get a bit annoyed now..

 

Into MARCH and Elliot was pre-booked for Heaven on Wheels in Belgium. So he has to go get his car, then we're sent a picture of an ambulance 20 metres down the estate, so because of this we can't get our cars. Luckily a few days before the event, Elliot managed to get his car. When Elliot got there Daves car only just started being worked on!

 

Mid-march and apparently mine is done and Daves is being finished.

 

MARCH 22nd, we make the trip down to get our cars. We pull up and my car is outside, Daves is inside with the hood up and 3 days rushing around finishing it up. So poor. But we were told both cars had been test driven for 2 hours and were good to go.

 

Job 1 - load the cars up with our old boxes and parts! This is another saga and there were 4 of us walking back and forth loading the truck, so it looked like everything was there. The truck (driven by Daves gf gets going and heads home)

 

Job 2 - test the cars! Dave gets in his car, drives it up and down the estate, when he brings it back we notice that where the car was ...is a patch of oil. "OH, that's from another car" says Frazer. It's 8pm, we can't get underneath to be sure. So we pay our bills and get going, its about 9pm now.

 

I get in my car and a couple miles up the road I notice my shifter is sloppier than a St. Bernard dog, literally a spoon in a bucket. How can anyone let a car this bad out?!

 

1 hour up the road me and Dave in our NA/6 speeds cruise along and all of a sudden Daves engine revs to redline, 2 seconds later "My clutch is slipping!" UNBELIEVABLE. These Sachs Motorsport clutches are rated to 600ft/lb, how can they slip on a N/A lump after 50 miles?!

 

We get off the motorway and pull into a petrol station. Dave talks to Frazer and we make the decision from North East London at gone 10pm to go back to Kent and drop Daves car off. We swap cars too, I drive Daves and immediately notice his pedal is firmer and nicer than mine - How can this be? We have the exact same box, shifter, prop, clutch and flywheel set up, master cylinder fitted by the same garage? He also rings me to tell me my pedal feel is crap! ..compared to his it was true! 90min journey ahead.. I'm driving Daves car as gently as I can, on the motorway roadworks commence. Now all of a sudden there's a tonne of SMOKE coming from the trans tunnel and in to the cabin, so I have to drive with both windows down. It continued to smoke the whole way.. it was clearly gearbox oil leaking somewhere and burning up.

 

We make it to Frazer / Spec Motorsport and almost 11:30pm and make it clear - fix it and test it to make sure it's all okay before we take it away again, now I wanted my clutch pedal sorted. But we needed to get home. So made a plan that Frazer will fix Daves car, drop it back to him and then on his way home we will collect my car. Okay then...

 

It turns out Daves M3 box needed a rebuild and pissed its oil everywhere, the new Sachs Motorsport clutch was burnt out too. Frazer orders a replacement clutch and Dave asks for the car returned WITHOUT the gearbox, (we lost faith in Spec / Frazer understandably). A week or so later, one of the workers drops Daves car back to him.

 

I have a screenshot of a lot of conversation but I won't upload them. To summarise the next lot of events:

 

Frazer messed up a gearbox seal that pissed oil out.

He said he never took it apart to check, but we trawled back through the convo and show him the part where he shows us it being taken apart and put together for this £60 bearing.

Daves car came back with ripped leather seats covered in oil.

Frazer billed Dave for a new clutch and FUEL for dropping the car back. Of course he didn't pay, why would he, the garage messed up.

Some guy called Chris keep ringing us threatening us to pay up.

On Facebook he offers to fight Dave for not paying his bill (so professional, now been deleted, but we got the screenshots)

Some other friend of his posts comments about how he's gonna jump on top of our cars at the next meet

He edited his comments on this site on another thread also.. but I have pre-edited screenshots too of that too

 

Slowly out the woodwork come forward about 7 or 8 other people with similar experiences, from blown up gearboxes to awful engine work and builds on 2J's and SR20's.

 

OH! ...and amogst all this, the next day my gearbox decided it was going to pop out of 5th gear when you let off the throttle! Was on the motorway the day before so I didn't use 5th much, just cruised along in 6th.

 

I get a bit scared about blowing it up, so park the car up and plan to drop the box with Dave. We'll do it ourselves instead, properly, how it should have been done!

 

So since March 24th 2019 my white Supra has not been driven on the road ..it hurts!

Edited August 10, 2020 by AC93 (see edit history)

[AC93]

FAST FORWARD

 

I decided to build a VVTi engine as support for them has grown and to help spool with the turbski.. I found one from a Lexus GS300 for £250, result!

 

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I began to strip it down and ordered a few bits:

 

Manley Platinum pistons 86.5mm

Manley H Tuff Rods

ARP main Studs

ARP head studs

GTE headgasket

GTE oil pump

BC 264 cams

ECU Master Black ECU

FFIM from SSI

FIC 1050cc injectors

TurboSmart FPR1200

BW S364 SXE 0.88 single scroll

Walton Motorsports manifold

TurboSmart Gen V Progate wastegate

TurboSmart Gen V BOV

Walbro 450 fuel pump

Braided fuel lines

Whifbitz FMIC

The engine and bottom end parts then went to James @ HART Performance to be built.

 

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Absolutely ZERO issues, he sent me daily pictures of it all, measurements and 50+ photos in total. James was happy with the parts and build, so I paid up and Dave kindly collected it for me

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Now we had to get the N/A lump out the car and put the VVTi engine in, I always bought a new selector rod and all new bushes and washers for the M3 box. WHAT A DIFFERENCE THIS MADE!

 

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So the engine and box are in!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Spent the afternoon putting the PAS/AC pump on, radiator, hoses etc. all the niggly bits that need doing.

 

Forgot to mention I sold the wheels and replaced them with:

 

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Rota GTR fronts

Rota GTR-D rears

 

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It looks muchhh better in person than in photos, Goodyear F1 tyres all round, 235 front and 285/35 rears

 

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As you can see I did a few other jobs too!

 

Interior stripped and padded with Dynamat Xtreme and Class 'O' acoustic foam

Purple roll cage fitted from Jamie Fosta

Intercooler and crash bar fitted

Fuel pump fitted

Dash panels resprayed

Cams installed when head was refurbed

Headlights restored/polished and waxed

Walton manifold wrapped (as was downpipe)

[AC93]

Turns out there's an issue with Borg Warner turbos too...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]237309[/ATTACH]

 

Bonnet wouldn't close!! I spoke to Walton Motorsports about this and the suggested trying a stock bonnet, so luckily at the time my Supra hadn't been collected and it was the same issue.

Mike at Walton Motorsports agreed to fix it for me

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]237310[/ATTACH]

 

Me and Dave had the same manifolds, and turbos = same issue! So they sorted out the manifold, built us a custom downpipe and made custom on piece intercooler pipes with BOV flange and IAT sensors ..work is top notch.

 

 

 

AUGUST 2020

 

 

So that's pretty much what's happened and where we are up to!

 

The car need a couple little jobs before it gets started:

 

New customer wire tuck cable loom (being built as we speak by GB Autotech)

Propshaft mount (Spec one was awful, not even straight!)

AN10 fittings on the cam covers

 

 

 

Thanks for the dedication if you've read this far!

 

All comments and questions welcomed!

 

A.C.

[Annabella]

Wow that's quite a 2-3 year journey, hope it continues better than it started!

[Delboy52]

What a nightmare. Can knock your faith in garages with that kind of carry on.

[AC93]

Wow that's quite a 2-3 year journey, hope it continues better than it started!

 

 

Thanks, yeh it should be fine now! (Hopefully)

 

Just odd little jobs and then the base map loaded ready for some running in miles!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

What a nightmare. Can knock your faith in garages with that kind of carry on.

 

Too right Mike, obliterated faith!

[Nathanj1142]

Hey! Build is looking great. I’m just building an NA engine to eventually na-t. Just wondering, to break in your engine is the tuner loading a base map to run with little to no boost or will you be running on a stock na ecu to perform the break in? The guy i wanted to go to said engine already has to be broken in in order for them to tune, which if I’m correct I can’t break in with a stock ecu?

[AC93]

Custom, stainless power steering reservoir bottle bracket (ha to be relocated because of front facing inlet)

 

Its been sprayed black, just waiting for it to dry before fitting!

 

 

FPR Mounted

 

 

TT P/S Pump fitting modified by Dave to clear the inlet

[AC93]

Hey! Build is looking great. I’m just building an NA engine to eventually na-t. Just wondering, to break in your engine is the tuner loading a base map to run with little to no boost or will you be running on a stock na ecu to perform the break in? The guy i wanted to go to said engine already has to be broken in in order for them to tune, which if I’m correct I can’t break in with a stock ecu?

 

Yeh GB Autotech are loading a base map on to the ECU Master Black ECU. Then I will do 500 running in miles before it goes for full boost mapping, you need to run some boost on the break in to help the piston rings bed in etc.

[AC93]

Weathers been a bit crap lately so progress has slowed..

 

 

Cam covers painted black - AN10 fittings have been fitted too

 

 

Mounted the PAS bottle next to the FPR

 

Just waiting for a dry afternoon so I can get the wastegate and screamer pipe on, then the 4" downpipe!

[Noz]

Nice bracket for the res. What you using for the PAS? I used a TT res didn't think there was another option really bud.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And how's the sound deadening inside?

[AC93]

Nice bracket for the res. What you using for the PAS? I used a TT res didn't think there was another option really bud.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And how's the sound deadening inside?

 

I used a Saab 9-5 bottle (£15 and in black) as I wanted two angled ports. Res bottle is just a bottle! I've seen people use a BMW bottle aswell but they have both ports at the bottom and that would have meant mounting the bottle higher up.

 

 

Sound deadening is so good.. easy to work with and knocking on the panels its night and day. I used 25mm foam in the boot and rear 1/4's and then 6mm foam on the floor, under rear seats and doors. Long drives should be much more comfortable and quieter!

[Noz]

Love a decent sound deadening project.

 

I'm so keen to do this to mine.

[AC93]

 

Bottle mounted

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Love a decent sound deadening project.

 

I'm so keen to do this to mine.

 

I think its worth doing, it's not a hard job at all, just tie consuming and making sure you don't break off clips etc.

 

I also did the tailgate

[AC93]

Cam cover baffles cleaned up and covers with AN10 fittings installed and back on the block

 

 

 

 

 

Also new cam and VVTi connector plugs ready to go on the brand new engine harness

 

[bradleyh_15]

Sorry to ready your story of disappointment, letdowns and substandard work! But so happy you persevered and your car is now in safe competent hands. Keep it up and keep up the updates

[AC93]

More annoyances!

 

While my Supra was at Walton Motorsports having their manifold sorted, it's still not right.. really not impressed!

 

The 2 lower studs are inaccessible, no matter what flexi/wrech/socket configuration you have, there is no space to tighten the nuts up. I messaged them and they said to trim the studs and it will be fine. I knew this wouldn't work as there's no contact with the studs, just no space to get a socket/spanner on it! If only the runners were a few mm to the side it would be simple! (pics below)

 

 

 

Only solution for the:

Front lower stud - take the stud out and replace it with a high tensile allen key bolt

Rear lower stud - use a narrow 14mm spanner and go from the left hand side UNDERNEATH the manifold by dislocating your wrist and doing 1/4 turns on the nut specifically from 5 o'clock to 7 o'clock, so glad I don't have massive shovel hands otherwise there's no hope!

 

 

 

While my car was there I paid Walton just over £400 to have custom one piece boost pipes made. The throttle body was fitted, he had the manifold and turbo all bolted to the block so it should have been no issue. The pipes looked good, 2.75" throughout, flared to a 3" to the throttle bosy and a 2.75"-2.5" reducer on the turbo elbow.

 

But when it came to fitting...

 

 

The fan blades hit the bloody pipes!! ..and that's before the fan shroud is fitted, and there's no way I was going to trim 1" off each blade and my cowling and faff about! Also it was resting on the alternator wire and the bottom rad hose had to (ideally) come off to get it in nicely. Again... not impressed!

 

SOLUTION!

 

Cut up my £400+ boost pipes and do the job properly myself.

 

 

As you can see I came down at 45 degrees from the turbo and hey presto, no issues! Why they couldn't do this I have no idea?!

 

 

Then there's the intake side!

 

It fits up just fine... but the Turbosmart Gen V BOV which they supplied me, and they had at the time of making the boost pipes is angles right at the aux belt pulley, there's maybe 4 or 5mm ..again, all they had to do was rotate the flange 20mm away from the engine and there would be no issues!

 

I'm really not impressed with the quality of their work, the manifold itself looks good and I'm sure it will be, but the workmanship and logic of how it goes together is horrible. I paid top money for all the parts and service + £160 to get my Supra transported there and back!

 

 

You'll also notice that on the webpage for their GE manifolds they now do a Type A and Type B. This is only because since my car has been there they have admitted that the manifold is not ideal for a Supra engine bay.

 

 

 

Oh well... live and learn!

 

Good new is I got my catch can fitted!

 

[AC93]

GB Autotec (who are building the bespoke wiring loom) put an EGT sensor in the downpipe. So got that on yesterday - the 4" downpipe is massive... almost too big! A bit of force and managed to get it in place and line up the turbo!

 

 

Turbo looks awesome!

 

Downpipe is very close to the water line so will be getting some fire sleeving on there.

 

Just need to make up my oil lines now

[AC93]

Just a little update.. Nothing new has happened really, been busy with the Aristo last few weeks! My A02B is unfortunately kaput, the gearbox/diff specialists said the ring/pinion are buggered. So currently hunting for a 3.76 or 3.26 gear set. Then its just putting the prop/exhaust on and a couple little jobs like vacuum lines and TT rear brakes :)

[j_jza80]

Interesting project :) wish I'd gone with a 4" downpipe from the off, no downsides except fitting it, but should net you some decent gains in response and power. I would look at getting a rose jointed turbo bracket manufactured though, wrapped manifolds love to crack on the welds.

[AC93]

[quote name='j_jza80']Interesting project :) wish I'd gone with a 4" downpipe from the off, no downsides except fitting it, but should net you some decent gains in response and power. I would look at getting a rose jointed turbo bracket manufactured though, wrapped manifolds love to crack on the welds.[/QUOTE] Yeh hopefully it works well and compliments the built block to maximize bhp/tq I just need to ring up SRD and get it booked in :D

[Steve]

Great write up so far. Such a shame you have had such bad luck with some of the work carried out and parts. I noticed that you have the FFIM from SSI. How is the fitment on this? When you get some time, can you do me a favour and measure how far the furthest point of the intake sticks out from the head? Just trying to work out if this will fit in my IS.

[AC93]

[quote name='Steve']Great write up so far. Such a shame you have had such bad luck with some of the work carried out and parts. I noticed that you have the FFIM from SSI. How is the fitment on this? When you get some time, can you do me a favour and measure how far the furthest point of the intake sticks out from the head? Just trying to work out if this will fit in my IS.[/QUOTE] Yeh it's been up and down! SSI intake is fine, I just need to get a slightly smaller battery as the throttle body overlaps a touch. I should be able to measure for you on Sunday :thumbs:

[AC93]

Supra is booked in to be with SRD in a few weeks :D Couple of jobs still to do, but should be able to get them done and finally get her started and back on road!

[bradleyh_15]

good stuff mate, you know it makes sense to take it there and get it finally back on the road. I hope for no more issues [quote name='AC93']Supra is booked in to be with SRD in a few weeks :D Couple of jobs still to do, but should be able to get them done and finally get her started and back on road![/QUOTE]