Wez Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Interesting :- Recommended Specifications: PC running Windows 98/2000/XP Pentium III or better 64Mb RAM or greater Monitor with minimum of 800 x 600 resolution Standard RS232 serial port (for M4/48/8 ECU & PLM) Standard printer port (for ADL and M800) USB port (for ADL2 / SDL) You would need to get the link cable and i bet that isn`t cheap, do motec allow anyone to map there ECUs or only trained motec staff allowed? If this is the case you may not even be able to get a cable :thumbdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Also as far as Im aware My car is the ONLY VVTI single turbo supra running a Motec M800.. Motec confirmed this as it was the first VVTI map they had done. No Mikes car had the M800 first and AFAIK it is still running the VVTi system ( so he believes). I have had numerous conversations with him over it. It had a emange in that he wasnt happy with and then went M800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Interesting :- Recommended Specifications: PC running Windows 98/2000/XP Pentium III or better 64Mb RAM or greater Monitor with minimum of 800 x 600 resolution Standard RS232 serial port (for M4/48/8 ECU & PLM) Standard printer port (for ADL and M800) USB port (for ADL2 / SDL) You would need to get the link cable and i bet that isn`t cheap, do motec allow anyone to map there ECUs or only trained motec staff allowed? If this is the case you may not even be able to get a cable :thumbdown Could well be just a boggo parallel cable...? This is all fascinating stuff let's see the VVTi map /rubs hands with glee -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 guesstimate voltage Wez The vane-type systems use spool valves that are either on or off, so its a kindof pulse width modulation. One-shot helical systems also use on/off spool valves. Older continuously variable helical splin systems? Not sure. We could measure the voltages on a suitable VVT-i Supra inthe Norwich area to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I assume the motec uses a PWM map for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I am wondering why this hasn`t been tried with an AEM yet as there is a spare PWM output and multiple spare normal switched outputs. No good to me as I don`t have VVTI but just curious on how it all works, great info so far guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I assume the motec uses a PWM map for it? If it is a PWM system, then it might - or it might hamstring it back to a one-shot system by switching the valve permanently open or closed after a specific speed/load point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 The vane-type systems use spool valves that are either on or off, so its a kindof pulse width modulation. One-shot helical systems also use on/off spool valves. Older continuously variable helical splin systems? Not sure. We could measure the voltages on a suitable VVT-i Supra inthe Norwich area to be sure. I'll tell Steve V to get in contact Just say when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 If the AEM can do this stuff it would be great...but we need a AEM to VVTi loom converter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I think as Darren said it would restrict the VVTi system doing it with a PWM table. Motec made a big song and dance with the M800 and its variable came timing abilities, so it would be nice to find out what they have actually done, or whether it is a little "hype" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Darren how would you expect the stock VVTi EMS to control the cam timing assuming its not a one shot system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Darren how would you expect the stock VVTi EMS to control the cam timing assuming its not a one shot system? Via another map in the ECU for speed / load (open loop) stuff, and then there will be a closed loop feedback from the cam positon sensor. So the ECU is saying "for this speed and load you want this valve cam timing" (which equates to this pulse width), and then the feedback circuit is constantly comparing where the camshaft actually is compared to where it should be. There are probably special cases for cold start, idle, limp home, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Via another map in the ECU for speed / load (open loop) stuff, and then there will be a closed loop feedback from the cam positon sensor. So the ECU is saying "for this speed and load you want this valve cam timing" (which equates to this pulse width), and then the feedback circuit is constantly comparing where the camshaft actually is compared to where it should be. There are probably special cases for cold start, idle, limp home, etc. OK this is making sense, as Reg Reimer said he managed to view the VVTi map and that it was enormous, so much so that he said he wouldnt even contemplate messing with it, and that must have taken TMC engineers an age. May also explain why the VVTi ECU is twice as powerful as the normal TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Hands off my pics anyone thinking of robbing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Hands off my pics anyone thinking of robbing it OOOOO well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 LOL. I've seen that pic on about 6 different websites today, and about the same number of cut and pastes of different people's descriptions of VTEC / VVT-i / VVL or whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 we'll get there in the end tough. Suprised there is not more input from others, little dissapointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 The Motec can utilise any square, sine wave form or pattern and be configured using the correct alithograms for any sensor, it can read practically anything out there, but it needs the correction/software programme to be configured into the ECM to use it. So if TRD had a motec guy spend a few days on it, then most probably it has been setup. PWM is not much of a big deal at all, quite a few EMS can do this type of stuff, I mean hell we all have idle control valves .... LOL We all know the cam sensor refrences to the EMS that cyl.1 is at TDC and the EMS fires ign,and fuel pulses from its built in timing patterns .. But why does the VVti have 3 pulses, anymore care to measure at what degreee in crank rotation the pulses are triggering ..? I think it is just 3 triggers for the wasted spark system ign .... but im unsure //? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 You may be right U, the VVTi also utilises a 32 tooth trigger disk too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 oooh, more resolution then ... but more resolution doesnt always mean a good thing,for aftermarket tuners anyway ... LOL tel, do you know what the fuel and ign tooth values are for the stock vvti .. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 No mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 But why does the VVti have 3 pulses, anymore care to measure at what degreee in crank rotation the pulses are triggering ..? I think it is just 3 triggers for the wasted spark system ign .... but im unsure //? Just thinking aloud here but I don't think it'd be ignition related as a) ignition timing is worked out on crank position, b) it's variable depending on the load/speed map, and c) you'd need 6 triggers even if it's wasted spark, as there are still 6 spark events per 4-stroke cycle (well, 12 with wasted spark but it's 6 doubles IYSWIM) No ideas to bounce back in return though... Could it simply be to keep a track on how advanced or retarded the cam is at any moment? For the VVTi closed loop feedback?! -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 The increased number of teeth on the crank trigger disc might be for ODB stuff. The VVTi uses OBD, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 The increased number of teeth on the crank trigger disc might be for ODB stuff. The VVTi uses OBD, doesn't it? Yeah OBD2, the jap one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 solenoid ( courtesy of Mig) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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