Hard to understand 450 bhp on 22 yaer old cars.

I watch "5Th Gear, "Wheeler dealers and "Top gear, and they put forward lots of top of the range very high cost motors and they are quoting 320 BHP, 400BHP, and just the odd one at 500 BHP. It just amazes me that many of our Club members are running these BHP's and more on old cars which look and handle probably as well as the £45K stuff. Am i missing something?

I also never thought i would see the day where an electric car like the recent "Lotus" car would achieve 1,800 BHP and 0 to 60 in 1.7 seconds. It will cost circa £2M so we won't see many about.

I will always want the gear changing and the exhaust note and a car that i have to drive, i left electric cars behind at Wigan Fair Ground. Anyway, what do you feel about how you take on board you driving a 20 yr old car with 450 BHP,or more, and your mate next door has a £45K car with 300 BHP>? Herbie.

It depends what people want.. old cars are always more thrilling and cost a bit dearer to up the power .

But a new £45k 400hp Audi RS3 on real roads will spank most cars quite comfortably, stage 1 map = 480hp+

Well they've always been underestimated, snubbed by badge snobs, false worries over import parts costs etc just generally a niche model but one that for years contradicted the mantra "fast, cheap and reliable (fcr) - pick two". They are getting old now though and expensive so if the fcr was say almost 10:10:10 I'd say now it's 9/10:4:7 maybe?

I think over 40's will always have an affection for ICE cars, but I don't see the younger generation having anything like the same, good range electric will appeal to the masses and the traffic light GP pace of them appeal to the new 'petrol'heads. We'll perhaps be the old dinosaurs clinging onto nostalgia, possibly even legislated/taxed out of existence eventually.

Loads of people put modern tech and/or newness above the speed/power of a car, so as long as the car is brisk (and anything with 300bhp will be!) and has all the creature comforts and gadgets etc they will be/are fine spending that sort of money and think we're odd driving round in an old Toyota (regardless of how quick it may be).

A £30K+ Supra makes little sense to me know let alone to a regular Joe?

There is a Top Gear episode where I think Chris Harris does a back to back with a lambo and a fiesta ST to show the different.

On UK B road you can not realistically put anything with more than 400hp down and really enjoy it. Any big power car owner will tell you the same and it not till you get on big european roads or a track can you really explore the limits of what 500+ HP can do.

There is also emissions to contend with, big power does not easily meet emissions standards. Look at the new Supra, engine is capable of so much more and when you take all the restrictions out they are into the 500HP ranges easy. Why didn't BMW do that from the factory??

Area under the graph is more of an appeal nowadays...and probably always has been tbh. It's all well and good having a MK4 that's pushing in excess of 500hp, but the chances are it won't come alive until 3.5-4krpm. Modern cars making less power are up near their peak value a lot lower down the rev range and as Mike above was saying, that's what you want for B roads. The MKV has a much larger graph surface area than a BPU MK4 does and that's what really sets them apart

Hi Guys, Some good points in your posts, especially Scooter's post, because it is so much right at the heart of why i wrote my thread.

I feel like i waited for 18 years with an NA, then shelled out £6K to get 450 BHP, which i enjoy, and then suddenly there are now high tech machines which i would never have dreamed of.

I still think the MK4 Supra is a "head puller" and as i said in my thread, it is a pleasure to drive etc, however if you like "blowing other cars off", then this is now fading away, all be it this will become extinct for all car owners in the near future with exponential growth of technology for eliminating anyone who dares to exceed the speed limits, anywhere in the UK.

Overpopulation has caused massive congestion on many roads, another barrier to drivers who like a thrill of speed.

Anyway i hope i have not "thrown a spanner in the works" for any members who are selling their car, just hurry up with the sale, as my "sad bastard" outlook for the cars we love is quickly becoming dated, unless you just like pottering about and enjoying people admiring your pre high tech machine. Herbie.

I say don't despair we have a long time yet I think. A big issue I think with electric cars is how they can ultimately in the long run provide transport to the poorer in society. Kids first cars, run arounds, tip cars etc there are huge numbers of people that are in sheds/bangers/very cheap cars. It'll take ages for EV's to get down to these levels in significant numbers (if they ever will) or for buyers to reset their view in that they may have to pay £3-4K for a 'banger' as it'll cost so little to then run day to day?

It'll be interesting to see how the early Leaf's and I3's fair, what their life cycle ends up being on average. If you have the masses still only able to afford non EV cars it'll be harder to tip towards EV's in general.

Driven the new “supra” and it’s equivalent BMW and they are fast but honestly boring as hell to drive.

The supra round welsh roads was an awesome experience this year. So involved and theatric on acceleration, Brakes well (unless you lock up like me lol) and looks great.

I don’t think there’s any cars out now that don’t cost £70k plus that come close.

Having a smooth graph may be good performance wise but it’s boring as fuck to drive.

Not driven an electric car yet but willing to give it a try as long as you don’t try to sell me on the “green” aspect of it as I think that’s BS with current tech

A close friend of mine has just bought a "BMW I-3" £21K. the value attributes are very impressive, very fast acceleration up to 40 mph, range 135 miles, no servicing, no corrosion, no road tax, level 2 driver less, solar panels helping the FOC electricity, all pre car heating on an app, as well as all charging points in the uk and if they are available, 3 phase charge 45 mins, seven year pay back on his capital outlay,batteries guaranteed for eight years and then only drop to 80% output capacity.

Easy to see the possibilities, of high class cheap transport, PROVIDING YOU CAN AFFORD THE INITIAL OUTLAY.

My friend has a few old cars, MX5's and a Land Rover, so he is living with just boring transport and real noisy, smelly, gear changing fun. Herbie.

Hi Jason, Your post makes me feel better. Herbie.

Well they've always been underestimated, snubbed by badge snobs, false worries over import parts costs etc just generally a niche model but one that for years contradicted the mantra "fast, cheap and reliable (fcr) - pick two". They are getting old now though and expensive so if the fcr was say almost 10:10:10 I'd say now it's 9/10:4:7 maybe?

 

I think over 40's will always have an affection for ICE cars, but I don't see the younger generation having anything like the same, good range electric will appeal to the masses and the traffic light GP pace of them appeal to the new 'petrol'heads. We'll perhaps be the old dinosaurs clinging onto nostalgia, possibly even legislated/taxed out of existence eventually.

 

Loads of people put modern tech and/or newness above the speed/power of a car, so as long as the car is brisk (and anything with 300bhp will be!) and has all the creature comforts and gadgets etc they will be/are fine spending that sort of money and think we're odd driving round in an old Toyota (regardless of how quick it may be).

 

A £30K+ Supra makes little sense to me know let alone to a regular Joe?

This.

Also EV's are the future, like it or not. I'd love a Tesla if I could afford one.

Be glad your driving now, the future if man has one could be very dull as far as driving is concerned

I don’t think there’s any cars out now that don’t cost £70k plus that come close.

Trust me, even they don't.

Not driven an electric car yet but willing to give it a try as long as you don’t try to sell me on the “green” aspect of it as I think that’s BS with current tech

Been there, done that, gets very boring after the novelty of the 'instant acceleration' wears off.

I've been told that most of the "run of the mill" EC's are very quick up to 40 to 60 MPH, but after that they fall off noticably getting into the 90 to 120's.

For 2 years now following my NAT conversion i have not had anything up in the higher speeds that was an issue for my bus, on the selection of M/ways we have in my nick of the woods, the Blackpool M55 on some afternoons is the place to be. Herbie.

Be glad your driving now, the future if man has one could be very dull as far as driving is concerned

This is what concerns me. Eventually self driving cars will be mandatory. The best period will be self driving cars and normal cars on the roads at the same time. Due to the safety aspect of the technology I expect normal drivers will be able to “bully” the self driving tech.

This is what concerns me. Eventually self driving cars will be mandatory. The best period will be self driving cars and normal cars on the roads at the same time. Due to the safety aspect of the technology I expect normal drivers will be able to “bully” the self driving tech.

That would be hilarious!

I've been told that most of the "run of the mill" EC's are very quick up to 40 to 60 MPH, but after that they fall off noticably getting into the 90 to 120's.

 

For 2 years now following my NAT conversion i have not had anything up in the higher speeds that was an issue for my bus, on the selection of M/ways we have in my nick of the woods, the Blackpool M55 on some afternoons is the place to be. Herbie.

Teslas are untouchable from 0-100mph. Anything above that and the competition starts catching up.

Hi Adam, I remember the "World Land Speed "Record" being highjacked by a aeroplane jet engine,many people, like me, only accepted the glory given to competitors running ICE engines, this is currently the same for the Teslar, as it is not classed as a real car, it is a high tech machine without any charachter, no noise, no driving skill,no car driving enjoyment, bit like "Beam Me Up Scottie" and take me to nearest planet, instead of a tour of Southern Ireland in a real gas guzzling rocket ship. Herbie.

Hi Adam, I remember the "World Land Speed "Record" being highjacked by a aeroplane jet engine,many people, like me, only accepted the glory given to competitors running ICE engines, this is currently the same for the Teslar, as it is not classed as a real car, it is a high tech machine without any charachter, no noise, no driving skill,no car driving enjoyment, bit like "Beam Me Up Scottie" and take me to nearest planet, instead of a tour of Southern Ireland in a real gas guzzling rocket ship. Herbie.

Very eloquently put, sir. This is precisely my problem with new cars, no matter the RRP.

pretty much paying for something you cant use properly ,cameras everywhere to much traffic ,youngsters who cant drive lol,so unless you track it its not being used to its design

Hi Peter, I agree with you, but we could move to Scotland where they have not suffered from mass overpopulation, there are many roads that have not been ruined by average speed cameras. If the SNP gain independence i will be OK as i am half Scottish and half Welsh.lol. Herbie.