GTE Cam and Crank Sensors on NA-T with AEM EMS v2 (Model 6101)

Hi guys. I'm in slightly unchartered territory here and have an issue that I'm hoping to get some guidance on so here goes.

I've deleted the distributor on my NA-T to run VVTi coils in a wasted spark configuration. Here's the cliffnotes:

2JZ-GE Non-VVTi (Car's a Manual)

BC 262 GTE Style Cams (so no dizzy gear on the exhaust cam anymore)

AEM EMS v2 - Model Number 6101

2JZ-GE VVTi Coil Packs

2JZ-GE VVTi Igniter

GTE Oil Pump

GTE Crank Sensor

VVTi GTE 36-2 Crank Trigger Wheel

GTE Crank Sensor for Pickup on Cam Gear (Goleby's Parts Kit - pic below)

Aftermarket Cam Gears with Magnetic Pickup Point

So if this setup is wired in correctly, should I be able to get it running and detecting cam/crank position?

I have a garage doing this work for me as I am hopeless with electrics and they're having some issues. They believe the ECU may not be able to use the GTE sensors correctly. I've seen multiple threads online with this sort of conversion running (but maybe not this exact setup) and believe that it should work fine. The only evidence I've seen to suggest it can't is in the AEM thread below.

https://www.aemelectronics.com/forum/2jz-ge-na-t-rpm-dropout-issue

Any help would be appreciated as I may end up having to source a new ECU that I don't believe I need. Here's a pic of the crank sensor / cam pickup

If the garage doesnt know youve gone to the wrong garage.

The ecu should do both vvti and non vvti. Therefore you're just looking for the cross over.

If the garage doesnt know youve gone to the wrong garage.

 

The ecu should do both vvti and non vvti. Therefore you're just looking for the cross over.

I think it's more to do with the NA and TT versions of the ECU. The AEM thread I've linked mentions that the "2JZ-GE would use a 6101 which has the correct cam/crank noise cancellation hardware in it to work with the cam/crank sensors in the distributor". So thinking about that back to front, does the 6101's cancellation hardware mean it can't read GTE sensors?

That's really interesting. I didn't know the ecu was made specifically for the NA. Syvecs didn't make an NA ecu.

I'd speak to someone who tunes that ECU day in day out.

I cant recommend Whifbitz enough. I'd be speaking to them and wouldnt map my car anywhere else now.

That's really interesting. I didn't know the ecu was made specifically for the NA. Syvecs didn't make an NA ecu.

 

I'd speak to someone who tunes that ECU day in day out.

 

I cant recommend Whifbitz enough. I'd be speaking to them and wouldnt map my car anywhere else now.

I always thought that the difference was down to the plug and play harness and that was it really. Never really heard of anything else until digging into this issue.

There's heaps of guys who have done something similar on supraforums but it was all 5+ years ago. I've asked the question on there and a Facebook group that seems pretty active as well. Just crossing my fingers that someone has come across the issue (if it exists) before.

Future motorsport deal with EMS a lot.

I still have caution towards your garage. If they cant figure it out or dont know it makes me feel they arent that familiar with the ecu. And I always prefer someone who's locked in with experience on that.

Got any links to those old threads?

Yeah that's where I got the ECU from dude. Spoken to AEM and they haven't been very useful as the ECU is getting on a bit now and not really that well supported anymore. They've just requested logs and blamed the sensors etc. but I'm beginning to think it is actually the ECU that's causing the issues.

I wouldn't say they can't figure it out or don't know as they're just running into issues that I didn't really know existed with this being such a rare conversion in terms of all the hardware I've used. I went in to see them yesterday and they explained what they were having issues with. Crank signal looks to be very weak when reading from the ECU and as a result, it can't sync the timing. They showed me the graph and it looks to drop out and come in again. Oscilliscope reading is bang on though, nice strong signal. Coils are also firing fine and I ran through the wiring with them which all looks good to me when compared to threads online. So I guess that kind of backs up the theory that the 2JZ-GE units have masking hardware in them for the distributor pickups.

Now that I had a better idea of what was going on, I ended up deep into the archives of supraforums again and it does actually look like a problem that others have had in the past:

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/aem-v2-stat-sync-issues-with-vvti-head-and-36-2-trigger-wheel.930993/

https://www.my.is/threads/aristo-pickup-sensor-on-aem.537609/

So what they've described seems to line up with the issues these guys were experiencing. From what I've read, there is no definitive solution with this ECU but some people have had success with shielded wiring, moving the sensor closer to the trigger and even opening the ECU itself and de-soldering resistors.

Most of the how to guide is covered in this thread and the links in it. Zero mention of the cam / crank sensor issues as a lot of people just seem to retain the dizzy for that.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/performance-and-maintenance/619817-vvti-coil-packs-and-dizzy-deleting.html

So I guess there are a few more things to try but I'm not sure how confident I am with running this setup on a weak crank signal that could come and go with hot/cold starts, engine temps etc. Maybe a new ECU is the solution afterall

I'm not a professional by any means. But removing resistors due to a weak signal would tell me an amplifier would be better suited. Rather than noise reduction or a new ecu.

If the signal is present but too weak. Is it just a 12v pulse signal. As you could create or buy a 12v signal amplifier.

Do you still have the dizzy equipment on hand. I cant get to my dizzy currently. If you measure the sensors pulse voltage and then measure the GTE sensor voltage you'll see the step up you need from the amplifier.

It would make sense the sensors give different voltage values and maybe the new ecu isnt equipped to see a lower voltage.

Typical electronics uses 5v signals, 4-20mA or 10v range.

If the combo is wrong it might be the problem.

Can you give me the part numbers for the sensors. Maybe if I can find a data sheet we can understand the output voltages and you can then resolve by replicating the NA signal.

I'm not a professional by any means. But removing resistors due to a weak signal would tell me an amplifier would be better suited. Rather than noise reduction or a new ecu.

 

If the signal is present but too weak. Is it just a 12v pulse signal. As you could create or buy a 12v signal amplifier.

 

Do you still have the dizzy equipment on hand. I cant get to my dizzy currently. If you measure the sensors pulse voltage and then measure the GTE sensor voltage you'll see the step up you need from the amplifier.

 

It would make sense the sensors give different voltage values and maybe the new ecu isnt equipped to see a lower voltage.

 

Typical electronics uses 5v signals, 4-20mA or 10v range.

 

If the combo is wrong it might be the problem.

 

Can you give me the part numbers for the sensors. Maybe if I can find a data sheet we can understand the output voltages and you can then resolve by replicating the NA signal.

This is where I start to get lost

I know it's a variable reluctance signal so reads like a waveform on an oscilliscope. Not sure if you can amplify that kind of reading? I don't have my dizzy handy either unfortunately, but both cam and crank sensors being used are the same part number which is 90919-05023.

Waveform means its analog. You can incredible the amplitude but not the frequency easy enough. That's a different process.

How can they use the same sensor but give a different signal?

I thought different sensors were used mate.

Hi mate,

A good person to speak to would be Dan at FSMoto (first state motorsport). They have a similar Dizzy delete kit to the one you've bought.

They advise using several other ECU's including link, haltech etc but also say that you can use the AEM V1/V2 however you need to modify it internally by...ADDING a couple of resistors to the pcb. That's all the info I have from the pack he sent me but I'm sure he'd be happy to elaborate.

I ended up selling my AEM V2 following advise from the tuner I've chosen to work with this time and have gone with a Link but it's definitely doable with the AEM

^ sounds like a potential solution!

Style. You could ask Dan if he would fit the resistors but also fit a switch allowing for GTE or GE. Which would just pull two lines of resistance. The stock route or the route with extra resistance.

Hi mate,

 

A good person to speak to would be Dan at FSMoto (first state motorsport). They have a similar Dizzy delete kit to the one you've bought.

 

They advise using several other ECU's including link, haltech etc but also say that you can use the AEM V1/V2 however you need to modify it internally by...ADDING a couple of resistors to the pcb. That's all the info I have from the pack he sent me but I'm sure he'd be happy to elaborate.

 

I ended up selling my AEM V2 following advise from the tuner I've chosen to work with this time and have gone with a Link but it's definitely doable with the AEM

Ahh good shout mate, I've got that info sheet as well but kind of disregarded it as Dan uses Hall sensors instead of the Toyota VR style ones. Might be that the same/similar solution can be applied to get the signal I need though

^ sounds like a potential solution!

 

Style. You could ask Dan if he would fit the resistors but also fit a switch allowing for GTE or GE. Which would just pull two lines of resistance. The stock route or the route with extra resistance.

Yeah potentially mate, I'll see what he reccomends and go from there

All the sensors will be a form of hall sensor surely.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://gordon.com.pl/filesf/nowosci/denso-ems.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi9n52_t5blAhV9ThUIHWRUDvwQFjALegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2RlbpbE46LlKulCrY6T4I5

They are all a type of hall sensor man. It's how the process works.

I stand by the requirement to measure the output signal from the GTE sensor and the GE sensor and match the values.

Aren't they VR sensors in that datasheet? As in they have magnets built into them whereas Hall sensors don't? PHR offer Hall sensors as an upgrade from the stock VR ones

https://www.powerhouseracing.com/product/5613/phr-cam-and-crank-hall-effect-sensor-kit-for-2jz-and-1jz

It's basically a digital vs analog difference mate. I didn't realise it's called a VR Transducer.

I would swap the old analog `VR` sensors for digital on/off sensors.

Ask your tuner what sensors the AEM will pick up and get them swapped. Job done in my eyes!

It's basically a digital vs analog difference mate. I didn't realise it's called a VR Transducer.

 

I would swap the old analog `VR` sensors for digital on/off sensors.

 

Ask your tuner what sensors the AEM will pick up and get them swapped. Job done in my eyes!

Yeah think that’s the best way forward mate. I’ll have to do some looking into what works and what doesn’t and just switch them around. Crazy how I’d never heard of this issue before with all the threads and info there is out there regarding the conversion. Hopefully this thread saves someone else some hassle down the line!

So to bring this thread to a conclusion in case it comes up in a search for someone, it looks like the GE variant of the EMS v2 can be fiddled with to pickup Hall sensors and potentially even GTE style sensors. Best guide to the work required that I've found is from this guy:

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/aem-v2-hall-sensor-mod.998361/

I've weighed up my options and wasn't entirely comfortable with the risks involved in breaking the tamper seal on my ECU, seperating the daughter board from the mother board, cutting and soldering ECU's on the board and then getting it back together and hoping it works. So I've decided as a first step, to see if I can sell on my ECU and go for a replacement that will do the job at the first time of asking. Would be better than potentially grenading £1000 worth of ECU. There's also the option of sourcing sensors that will work with an un-tampered ECU but I can't find any other than the CPS system from the standard distributor or a MK3 Supra CPS.

Why not just put the dizzy back in, remove rotor and ht leads. Just use it as your trigger source then run a new loom for smart coils. That's normally how I setup using Link, works great.

Why not just put the dizzy back in, remove rotor and ht leads. Just use it as your trigger source then run a new loom for smart coils. That's normally how I setup using Link, works great.

I'm running GTE style cams now so can't use the dizzy at all

I'm running GTE style cams now so can't use the dizzy at all

Ah gutted. Yeah just get a new ecu then. Aemv2 is old shit now anyway