Top end tick

OK it's driving me mad enough to post up here I've had a top end tick for a couple of years now, but recently it's been getting worse, almost exponentially so. I've not driven the car much and I want to change that, but the noise is ruining my enjoyment - In my typical OTT fashion, I figure swarf is getting everywhere or I'm about to drop a valve and ruin the engine I can hear it if the windows are down as I drive past fences and so forth. There is clearly some mechanical clattering going on that shouldn't be, I'm just having trouble working out what and where. I'm hoping those with more experience of car valve noise will be able to help

I've attached two zip files containing recordings of the car at cold start and when the engine is warm.

The odd thing is, at cold start there is no tick It only really kicks in once the oil temps get above 60degC or thereabouts, so it's got to be something getting unhappy when it warms up (rather than oil starvation or something badly worn, that'd be most apparent when cold).

I've tried Wynns engine flush on an oil change as it fixed noisy valves on a friend's Audi. It was worth a go, see if a clogged oilway in the cams was causing it. It seemed like it fixed it, but I guess on the test drive I never warmed it up enough with two runs round the block.

I've done a compression check and they are all are 155 to 165psi, so book numbers hurrah.

I've checked the valve clearances and a couple of inlet cams are quite tight, around 0.010mm. There are no obvious wear patterns to me, but could this be the problem? It would fit with the "no noise until warming up" symptom I guess, because the clearance would probably all but vanish, but would that cause a tick noise? The noise seems to emanate from the rear inlet side of the engine and that's where the tight ones are...

I've got half the top of the engine off, ready to reshim those tight ones tomorrow, but are there any other ideas or things I can check while the camshafts are out?

-Ian

PS it needs fixing while I've got warm weather to enjoy, and I've got CW suspension on the way too!

cold start no tick.zip

warm engine tick2.zip

I can't hear the sound from my iPad, but one of the injectors used to tick on my uk spec after I sold it, not long after a fresh rebuild.

Similar symptoms too, wouldn't do it when cold. The cause was suggested by both a mechanic friend and a long standing trader on this forum

Has it got stock cams and springs? A loose spark plug will make a noise like that. As I said on the phone, so will a cracked or blowing exhaust manifold. Could even be piston noise.

Thanks Chris

HKS 256 intake 264 exhaust cams. Stock everything else up top. I pulled the plugs to check compression and they weren't overly tight but they weren't finger tight or rattly loose either. A video on YouTube of a similar noise also turned out to be a loose plug but I'm not a believer in such easy and cheap fixes

I think the tick happens at half rpms so it'll be cam/valve related rather than a piston. I hope so anyway! I'll double check the exhaust manifold but I listened on my det cans all over it for a blowing noise. Well, as "all over it" as I could manage on an exhaust system up to full temperature

I shall also check the injectors by simply disconnecting them and seeing if the noise goes away.

Check the free play of the tappet buckets in their guides, and take all the valves out and check for spring damage or bad valve or guide wear. Check all cam lobes minutely for wear or damage. Check the cam caps for wear or misplacement.

What viscosity oil are you using?

5w40 I think, it's the same stuff I've used for about ten years Might even be 5w50. I've just pulled the cam covers and they initially look peachy, hard to believe they've done about 40k miles.

My N/A has a similar sounding tick with 5w30 when hot, yet sounds like new with 10w50.

Actually, thinking back, I had a single turbo 2JZ in last year with tapping from the cam followers. Slight wear, quiet when cold, tappety when hot. The bucket bores were a few tenths o/size, not worth worrying about. Oil viscosity would change the noise or get rid of it until wear got worse. Head was stripped and everything checked out fine, otherwise.

OK I've taken the cams out and inspected everything I can from there. I reshimmed the two tight intake valves and made sure the spark plugs were in properly when putting it all back together. After all that, it now seems to be louder

So I got my det cans on the engine, I know it's getting worse as I couldn't pinpoint it a few months back, now it's very very apparent, intake side, cylinders 5 and 6 area. If I listen at cylinder 1/2 I can't hear it, and it's not very audible on the exhaust side, but by heck it's loud on the intake side back there.

I took a load of pics while it was all in bits, while there is some wear it doesn't seem dramatic and it's even across all the parts, so much so that I only took one photo of a bucket, they are all the same. All the buckets slid in and out just fine and rotated just from the magnet I was using, so nothing tight there.

Piccies attached -buckets, the cam caps (exhaust, intake), exhaust cam

More pics - exhaust cam and intake cam

Even more pics - intake cam and the #7 bearing cap with an odd yellow stripe on it (exhaust side #7 had the same stripe)

And the bearing journals in the head.

Decent resolution, in focus pictures, well done Ian Can't see anything amiss there, but similarly the last head to make a tapping noise looked perfect, but the bucket clearances in the sleeves in the head on some valves was just over spec. I wouldn't worry about it. If it's bucket in bucket sleeve wear only a new or perfect used head will cure it for sensible money.

Yellow stripe:

Wider oil feed groove on front cam bearing journal leaves the oil stain in the un-rubbed area of the corresponding cap.

Try it on 10W50.

Turn the radio up, save money

That Bucket does look tired. Although they all move freely it looks like those back ones have been staved of oil at some point as in picture look slighty scored as normally they are like a mirror. It they have worn you will also be getting quite alot of oil pressure bleed off in the head espically if using a thinner oil like 40. I always use espically on high power engines 10-50 as a mininum.

But pictures sometimes make things look worse and Mr wilson is the man for this stuff

Thanks guys. I shall check what oil I use tomorrow (I know, I know, but it's the same stuff for years haha). It's probably 0w30 or something. A thicker oil clearing it up would make me happy

I was surprised at the pictures, they show what looks like a load of scoring in the bores that certainly weren't visible to me when I was poking around! I'm depressed to hear that the buckets should remain mirror smooth, I think all of them have the centre 80% kinda scuffed, albeit not exactly scored and cratered. Bah. It's a 2nd hand engine and to be honest it's always had a bit of a tick, it's just gotten worse. I should hope I've never given it cause to be starved of oil! Maybe my running engine flush through it actually made things worse if it's just a bit of wear.

The tick noise annoys me I can hear it with the windows down. Perhaps I just need a subwoofer then

Edit - it's valvoline synpower 5w50. Now to look up what these numbers actually mean for the 100th time.

I had issues with the buckets on my last supra. The car had a very light ticking sound which I dismissed. Eventually the I had starting issues and to cut a long story short it was found that the rear 4 valves were stuck open flooding the engine on start up. When I removed them they were marked in the sane place as yours but just a lot heavier. It ended up the oil pump was worn and not supplying the head with enough oil when it got hot. After a spirited run the Buckets were jamming in the head keeping the valves open when the car cooled down. It ended up an engine rebuild for me, bad times.

On a different note I use Valvoline VRS racing 5w/50 oil I find it very good oil and very reasonable priced too.

Sorry, I meant VRS, it used to be called Synpower

I don't think there is currently an oil supply issue around the engine, this was probably damage done before I even owned the unit. The oil temps are quite sane even under spirited driving, I'd assume them to be higher if it wasn't circulating properly.

I'll keep my eye out for another cylinder head

I have my old set of buckets and shims sitting in the garage if you want to give them a try.

Had exactly the same problem as you mate (It was my car Chris was talking about earlier in the thread). Although I was given the all clear from Chris the noise was really irritating, so I ended up buying a head off Dude. To price the buckets up they are around £17 EACH!!!! Was going to cost over £400 just to replace these so decided to get a head instead. Noise gone now

I would put money the noise also going if you re fitted the stock cams, too. Whilst annoying the noise isn't really causing any harm, so what price a tapping sound?

Both the buckets and the bores they slide in were slightly off the size specs, so although new buckets probably would have fixed it, you never know. Plus you may have to re shim, depending on production tolerances of the bucket thickness.

My stock cams are now part of my speaker stands in the front room so that's not going to happen I'll see if I can live with the noise, but Steve, yes, I'd very much like to take you up on that offer! Thank you!