View Full Version : 2 down, 7 to go
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6340935.stm
lets hope that this wasn't all just hot air...........just like before....
(remembering the Heathrow incident and the 24 arrested - 24 that didn't have tickets and were nowhere near the airport)
OR
the Forrestgate incident
paul ashton
08-02-07, 02:31
Hope you're right matey.
I don't understand why things like this are considered news!
He says himself:
"It's not a police state for everybody else because these terror laws are designed specifically for Muslims and that's quite an open fact, so we're the ones who are being locked up, detained and then told to go back to our lives."
Muslims are targeted because they're the ones committing the terror crimes, same as coloured people being 'picked on' in London - because the majority of crime is caused by those groups. Obviously then there will be some innocent Muslims arrested..... and then released when they're cleared - so what? Why the need to whinge and moan about it? It just seems like media shit-stirring for some reason.
:goodpost:
I am so fed up with the attitude, surely they want the place to be safe as well or perhaps............
Imi, why post this trash, you bitch on about media this and that and this is quite obviously a story to get up everyones nose.
There was a crime in the planning, the police step in prior to the crime to defend the innocent. People get taken in for questioning. It happens all the time, get over it!
Muslims are targeted because they're the ones committing the terror crimes, same as coloured people being 'picked on' in London - because the majority of crime is caused by those groups. Obviously then there will be some innocent Muslims arrested..... and then released when they're cleared - so what? Why the need to whinge and moan about it?
Best post in a long time.
Five have now been charged:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6344967.stm
Five down, two to go then
Great news that they have arrested them, lets just hope that if found guilty they can somehow charge them for Treason or Piracy! :eyebrows:
I thought they weren't death sentences either any more?
FFS!!!!
The UK later (October 10, 2003) acceded to the 13th Protocol, which prohibits the death penalty under all circumstances.
I don't understand why things like this are considered news!
He says himself:
Muslims are targeted because they're the ones committing the terror crimes, same as coloured people being 'picked on' in London - because the majority of crime is caused by those groups. Obviously then there will be some innocent Muslims arrested..... and then released when they're cleared - so what? Why the need to whinge and moan about it? It just seems like media shit-stirring for some reason.
Great posting. I'm sick of people moaning about this as well, if we didn't "target" anyone for these crimes then we wouldn't ever catch the guilty ones. Why are people so bitter about enforcing justice and trying to protect the country?
One man charged with hatching a plot to kidnap a soldier. Hardly 'picking' on them for driving at 31mph is it? If they're guilty then the arrest and questioning of potentially innocent people is justified IMO.
Some of the apathy on show here is astonishing.
Some of the apathy on show here is astonishing.
I am confused. Which of the posts appears to show apathy? :blink:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6340935.stm
lets hope that this wasn't all just hot air...........just like before....
(remembering the Heathrow incident and the 24 arrested - 24 that didn't have tickets and were nowhere near the airport)
OR
the Forrestgate incident
Better safe than sorry! Welcome to arrest as many as they want I reckon, So what if they are wrong everytime!!!
We are living in an era where safety is paramount and unfortunately the minority of muslims have cast a shadow over the rest. My last statement was meant to say so what if they are wrong sometimes, not everytime...
Col, wrong word probably, cynicism would be better.
I really find it difficult to understand the protests over these people being arrested/anger directed to the police... with the 'anti-muslim' feeling etc, when this time, especially it was other muslims which appear to be in the firing line so to speak!
If the police get wind of a Muslim fundamentalist plot to do something nasty - what are they supposed to do? Round up Welsh Jews? Pick me up? WTF? Everyone knows that it is unfortunate that some of these sick f*ckers that feel the need to do terrible things happen to be Muslim, it doesn't mean that they are picking on Muslims for no reason - it means those guys with the guns/bombs/bad attitudes are f*cking it up for everyone else :(
This country is very much fed the f*ck up with the race card and the sectarian card being played every five minutes, aggravated by the feckin media spin on things.
GAAAAH!
If there is a serial rapist on the loose in an area, they tend to round up all the men in those areas for testing - doesn't mean they are picking on anyone - it is just an identified group that the bad bastard may be in!!! They won't all be the rapist, or even related to - do they piss and moan? Guys arrested in dawn raids all the time for various reasons (arms/drugs) - they never make the news.
Get over your f*ckin selves jesus!!!
</rant>
Sorry Imi - not aimed at you buddy ;)
Col, wrong word probably, cynicism would be better.
I really find it difficult to understand the protests over these people being arrested/anger directed to the police... with the 'anti-muslim' feeling etc, when this time, especially it was other muslims which appear to be in the firing line so to speak!
Makes sense now B - and I agree BTW.
sdavies - very good post, you have summed up my feelings!
I think the welsh should be rounded up on a weekly basis sdavies. If nothing else it would stop them bleeting on.
I'll get me coat :senile:
I think the welsh should be rounded up on a weekly basis sdavies. If nothing else it would stop them bleeting on.
I'll get me coat :senile:
You can bloody walk home next time :tongue:
I think the welsh should be rounded up on a weekly basis sdavies. If nothing else it would stop them bleeting on.
I'll get me coat :senile:
:amen: lol
To be fair to IMI this 'plot' broke just as things were getting abit difficult for Teflon Tony- the media were all up his arse over cash for peerages the day before. I seem to remember the last big terror raid was about 12 hours after Teflon found himself in a tight spot with the media all over him.
I get the impression that these 7 would have been arrested anyway, but not perhaps for another 5-6 days and the raid was brought forward to save Teflon's bacon.
To be fair to IMI this 'plot' broke just as things were getting abit difficult for Teflon Tony- the media were all up his arse over cash for peerages the day before. I seem to remember the last big terror raid was about 12 hours after Teflon found himself in a tight spot with the media all over him.
I get the impression that these 7 would have been arrested anyway, but not perhaps for another 5-6 days and the raid was brought forward to save Teflon's bacon.
I don't quite see how this works. :blink:
You are suggesting that Blair and the rest have enough power to arrange early arrests of suspects etc and yet he does not have the power to stop the cash for honours investigation which involves him directly.
To my mind, either the police are pawns or they are not. There can't be rules that change as to the situation eh?
Doesn't make sense to me.
CJ, only jesting and the lies going around that i said i would have walked had i known you were Welsh are greatly exaggerated! :p
If the police get wind of a Muslim fundamentalist plot to do something nasty - what are they supposed to do? Round up Welsh Jews? Pick me up? WTF? Everyone knows that it is unfortunate that some of these sick f*ckers that feel the need to do terrible things happen to be Muslim, it doesn't mean that they are picking on Muslims for no reason - it means those guys with the guns/bombs/bad attitudes are f*cking it up for everyone else :(
I utterly agree with that. During the troubles in the 70's, did you see Catholics complaining that they were getting picked on because all the IRA suspects arrested were Catholic?
No!
These people are not being arrested because of their religion. They are being arrested because they are suspected of planning terrorist acts. The fact that the majority of terrorist acts in the world just now stem from Islamic fundamentalism inevitably means that the majority of people arrested will be from a Muslim background. At least our Police are following due process and do actually release people when they find the person they arrested, based on the evidence at the time, is actually innocent.
This is not a dig at imi, or any other law-abiding British Muslim, far from it. I understand that it must feel intimidating to the perfectly normal people that live in the predominantly Muslim areas in Britain to see so many arrests of people in their area. I can't, however, see how the term 'police state' can be justified.
If this were truly a police state then we wouldn't have the freedom to have the debates and protests that are going on right now. Instead we would have no restriction on detention periods, no burden of proof, no trial by jury system, no appeals process and no free press.
CJ, only jesting and the lies going around that i said i would have walked had i known you were Welsh are greatly exaggerated! :p
Welshist! :tongue: :d
MarkTheBoy
09-02-07, 15:02
I don't quite see how this works. :blink:
You are suggesting that Blair and the rest have enough power to arrange early arrests of suspects etc and yet he does not have the power to stop the cash for honours investigation which involves him directly.
To my mind, either the police are pawns or they are not. There can't be rules that change as to the situation eh?
Doesn't make sense to me.
Whole new can of worms...
I agree with most of the posts on here tbh, if they have to arrest 100 people to allow them to catch and charge 1 terrorist then that is a justified action.
That one terrorist could kill hundreds on his own.
Id rather that than wait for the one bad guy to pull the pin and then get named three months later once enough 'bits' have been scooped up.
With regards to the police specifically targeting muslims, isn't it the same sort of thing as back in the 80's & 90's with the IRA, where it would have been a waste of resources to be looking at black welsh women for example as it was clear what demographic was causing the problems.
We as a nation (and me personally) don't hate muslims, but ALL of the terrorism in question is and has been caused by that particular demographic so it is perfectly justified to be looking at that group in more detail than others.
Im not justifying guantanamo bay (spelling?) etc but needs must, considering the current condition of the world.
If there was a group of 500 5'11" brown haired white guys roaming around essex planting bombs I would expect to get more police attention than normal untill they had all been caught.
It stands to reason... I'd be pissed off about it but i'd understand why and accept it.
:complain:
I don't quite see how this works. :blink:
You are suggesting that Blair and the rest have enough power to arrange early arrests of suspects etc and yet he does not have the power to stop the cash for honours investigation which involves him directly.
To my mind, either the police are pawns or they are not. There can't be rules that change as to the situation eh?
Doesn't make sense to me.
He's done his best to hinder their progress in the cash for honours scandal- things can be fluid too- he can't simply tell the Police to piss off can he.
He's done his best to hinder their progress in the cash for honours scandal- things can be fluid too- he can't simply tell the Police to piss off can he.
I still don't buy the theory mate. You say he has the power to tell the police who to arrest and when and yet he cannot have a quiet word with the Chief Constable to stop the heat?
Nah - that's nonsensical.
I still don't buy the theory mate. You say he has the power to tell the police who to arrest and when and yet he cannot have a quiet word with the Chief Constable to stop the heat?
Nah - that's nonsensical.
Funny coincidences then isn't it- google every major terror raid, especially the ones that brought up squat, against media references to Blair- 15 troops die in Iraq on Monday- 8 Muslims arrested in a dawn swoop on Tuesday... 21 pedophiles do a runner on Wednesday, a bomb plot exposed on Thursday...
There were major terror raids 400 yards from my house, and the woods where I walk my dog was cordoned off for 'searches' for 7 weeks- they found fuck all in Fennels woods, not a bloody thing- they did trash the place though- when they weren't playing five-aside football on the rugby pitch for days on end.
Its almost as laughable as the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Remember the London Bombings ?
They had some of the suspecst under serveillance months before the attack was carried out. I think they are frightened now of letting any of these potential plots go too far. The problem is it is almost impossible to judge how far to let a suspect get on with his / her plan before going in to make arrests.
I am annoyed that the press keep getting all the info about the suspects their names, addresses etc, this should all be kept totally out of the public view, fine inform the press you have suspects under arrest but thats it.
That way who is being victimised ? If no charges are borought they can go and nobody has a clue who they are, life returns to normal.
Bet Imi wished he'd never started this thread now eh?
;)
I am annoyed that the press keep getting all the info about the suspects their names, addresses etc, this should all be kept totally out of the public view, fine inform the press you have suspects under arrest but thats it.
That way who is being victimised ? If no charges are borought they can go and nobody has a clue who they are, life returns to normal.
Agree 100%
Five down, two to go then
:d
Agreed. Arrest as many as possibly needed to at least eliminate some of the threat.
A non-racist post that is not intended to offend (I have Asian mates), but quite simply I would prefer to sit next to a white person over a coloured commuter on a train. Simple reason being, as we've all seen, it is the Muslim 'extremists' and other ethnic groups that have caused the bomb threats and detonations.
..A non-racist post that is not intended to offend (I have Asian mates), but quite simply I would prefer to sit next to a white person over a coloured commuter on a train. Simple reason being, as we've all seen, it is the Muslim 'extremists' and other ethnic groups that have caused the bomb threats and detonations.
I don't think moving 3 seats down is going to help too much mate ;)
Bet Imi wished he'd never started this thread now eh?
;)
On the contrary its quite amusing to see some of the replies - some I agree with....
If they are guilty then so be it and I don't mean guilty for not paying their TV license :D
Like I said, the Heathrow saga all fizzled off, the forestgate shooting of an innocent bloke - and this seemed to be heading the same way (scaremongering of the public).
I thought I made that pretty clear in my 1st post - shame that some failed to grasp that :)
..........but quite simply I would prefer to sit next to a white person over a coloured commuter on a train. Simple reason being, as we've all seen, it is the Muslim 'extremists' and other ethnic groups that have caused the bomb threats and detonations.
Sheefa - especially for you (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8)
Agreed. Arrest as many as possibly needed to at least eliminate some of the threat.
A non-racist post that is not intended to offend (I have Asian mates), but quite simply I would prefer to sit next to a white person over a coloured commuter on a train. Simple reason being, as we've all seen, it is the Muslim 'extremists' and other ethnic groups that have caused the bomb threats and detonations.
i agree totally - and im asian! but, thats not to say that i'll move, as cj says, moving 3 seats aint gonna help, and im prepared to give the person the benefit of the doubt as i have alot of muslim friends. i think the problem lies with not knowing whose a danger anymore because the last few suicide bombers looked and lived like normal people in the street.
Sheefa - especially for you (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8)
:rlol: havent seen that for ages :rlol:
On the contrary its quite amusing to see some of the replies - some I agree with....
If they are guilty then so be it and I don't mean guilty for not paying their TV license :D
Like I said, the Heathrow saga all fizzled off, the forestgate shooting of an innocent bloke - and this seemed to be heading the same way (scaremongering of the public).
I thought I made that pretty clear in my 1st post - shame that some failed to grasp that :)
The problem with the "Heathrow saga" as you put it is, that the Police have a solemn duty to protect the public. What if, for example they hadn't acted upon intelligence and something did happen? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It's unfortunate, that at present, the greatest terrorist threat facing this country, is from disgruntled British Muslim men. Not foreigners, but more often British born or naturalised British citizens.
The IRA were the same as well, most of them were British born, but their agenda was different, a minority fighting for the Provence to be reunited with Ireland
Infact throughout history, the majority of terrorism in this country has domestic roots. Guy Fawkes? The Jacobite Uprising?
Animal rights extremists? The current letter bomb campaign against companies/agencies involved with speed enforcement?
It's the press that have alot to answer for. And our current Government, who seem to have adopted the American policy of scaring the shit out of the electorate by creating an atmosphere of fear and distrust and feeding the press juicy titbits of (mis)information in order for us to feel that the Government are doing their bit to protect us from this evil threat.
And because your average joe in the street believes all the crap he reads or see on the TV, then the policy will continue to work for those it seeks to serve.
Believe me, we don't live in a Police state, and I hope to God that we never will. But by the Government seeking to create a policy of fear instead of trust, then it's the first step on the slippery slope. IMO.
Like I said, the Heathrow saga all fizzled off, the forestgate shooting of an innocent bloke - and this seemed to be heading the same way (scaremongering of the
Yeah, agreed. Bit like the Nick Griffin trial, media and extremist groups playing it all up and he was found innocent. British justice at it's best;) :)
The problem with the "Heathrow saga" as you put it is, that the Police have a solemn duty to protect the public. What if, for example they hadn't acted upon intelligence and something did happen? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. ...................................t by the Government seeking to create a policy of fear instead of trust, then it's the first step on the slippery slope. IMO.
Good post there Doug..
Personally I don't mind the police doing their job provided that their success rate "intelligence" was better, I am not saying accurate, at this stage, any improvement would be a good thing :D
As to the comment about the threat coming from home grown muslim men, well that doesn't surprise me one bit and it is a real shame. When you have one pathological liar and a dumb-witted fool trolling around invading countries with this "war against terrorism" slogan what exactly could one expect......
Very sad times....I hope things improve.....but its doesn't look good.
Anyways, I just came back from Cannes and am starving, (I should have stayed the weekend, nice and sunny, warm - it was gorgeous) :(
A non-racist post that is not intended to offend (I have Asian mates), but quite simply I would prefer to sit next to a white person over a coloured commuter on a train. Simple reason being, as we've all seen, it is the Muslim 'extremists' and other ethnic groups that have caused the bomb threats and detonations.
WTF:blink: :blink: So, what colour were the IRA guys at Hyde Park?
How the fuck can you make a statement like that and claim not to be racist???
How the fuck can you make a statement like that and claim not to be racist???
duh........he's got Asian Mates. :D
duh........he's got Asian Mates. :D
Wow, so cultures do mix? :d
duh........he's got Asian Mates. :D
Probably not for long - they're likely to get slightly pissed off when they get on the train with him, sit down and he says "Er - I'm just going to sit a bit further down the train next to that white guy".
Terrorism is a secretive business, its obvious that police intelligence is going to be patchy and grey. With apologies to the innocent Muslims already freed and the innocent Muslims yet to be arrested and freed in the future, I'm sorry but I'd rather see thousands of suspects arrested and later found to be innocent if it means one genuine terrorist is caught....the alternative doesnt bear thinking about.
Another aim of terrorists is disruption and the escalation of bad feelings between factions....cant help wondering if the recent bad intelligence and false arrests are due to rather clever miss-information on the part of the enemy.
I see where you are coming from Ewen. Cant help but think that the terrorists have already succeeded in their goals. :(
I see where you are coming from Ewen. Cant help but think that the terrorists have already succeeded in their goals. :(
If it ultimately results in civil war, yes they will have succeeded. We have a fair way to go before that happens though, and if everyone can keep their heads and let the authorities do their job without hysteria, resentment and over-reaction then it would never really get that far. A feeling of victimisation is understandable in the circumstances, but in this case both the victims of bombs and the victims of mis-trust and suspicion currently face the same enemy.
Good post Ewen.. Lets see how this plays out..
and if everyone can keep their heads and let the authorities do their job without hysteria, resentment and over-reaction then it would never really get that far.
Unfortunately that's unlikely in our media driven society, full of jingoism and general journalistic crap to whip up mass hysteria.
Why do the press keep showing clips of the nutty clerics? To keep things on the boil and make news:(
Sometimes the journos are just as bad as the perpetrators:blink:
We, as a nation (not as a religious sect or ethnic group) need to decide - do we want to be safe from terrorism and if so are we really prepared to suffer the consequences?
...... for me - i hope this continued arrests and releases don't keep happening - as public feelings would be just the same as the villagers in the story of the boy who cried wolf....
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