Soarer TT faster than Supra TT?

Hi all was bored and read this article on the soarer forum, this guy explains how his soarer is faster than a supra tt accelerating from 60mph, it's quite a long read but interesting and i would not know how accurate it is!

The TT is different in so many ways!

The TT is a short stroke motor; that is to say it is designed to Rev, and does so, readily.

A Stroke of only 71.5mm and the inherent 'turbine' smoothness of a Straight Six, 7000RPM is an easy achievement, and the TT will (if not artificially limited) keep going safely to 7700RPM without demur, the best in Japan (with revised valve gear) pull 9000RPM.

The Bore is 86mm, which is good for both torque and BHP propagation as it is also the Bore of the Supra and Soarer 3ltr motors.

They do not share the same Block; the 3ltr is a simple cast unit with different waterways for cooling, different height and different metal alloy. This was necessary for the greater Stroke, which (thanks to those who confirmed this point to me) is 86mm, making it much more inclined to produce torque.

The TT's engine must have been a loss leader, the use of T2000 steel for the bearing shells shows fanatical design care, the machining of the con-rods is almost sculptural, the pistons are 'single form' units, the alloy in the block the most durable alloy available outside Formula 1, it costs an absolute fortune to be this fussy!

The above also explains why the 2.5TT is superior to the 3.0TT, that Piston has to travel 20% further for each Stroke. This is a huge limitation on the rate at which the acceleration accelerates within the Engine as a whole, by co-incidence the best compromise Stroke for both internal acceleration and BHP propagation just happens to be around 68/72mm

So if you wanted a Turbo'd Straght 6 designed to do what a Turbo'd motor should do, then it will be limited to around 2.5ltrs, 2.0ltrs and the thing would need to rev its guts out, 3.0ltrs and it would be limited in its ability to Rev under load as freely as Turbo'd motors need to release the Turbo's full potential.

I have had the opportunity to run side by side with an Auto Supra TT at 60MPH, on a given signal we both pressed the loud pedal to the floor, he was left behind and could not catch me, I had to 'back-off 'at 110MPH by which time he was 2 car lengths behind, even I was surprised at the margin!

We did the same thing in each other's cars, the same result. But his car definitely seemed to me to be the faster! He did not think my Soarer was very quick when he first drove it, calling it an Old Man's Car, until that moment.

That difference between the 2 cars is also brought about by the B.rake M.ean E.ffective P.ressure, and the working pressure reaches it peak usually somewhere between the peak Torque RPM and the peak BHP RPM, but that's conventional engines, put Turbo's into the equation and it all changes.

To produce optimum acceleration of its components the BMEP must reach 145PSI early and peak at around 175PSI. The 2.5TT has at least 145PSI over a 4000RPM band and peaks at 173PSI, the 3.0TT peaks at 154PSI and only gives 145PSI over a 1200RPM range, this is the most important factor in performance motoring.

The most evident way to feel this is the way our TT's seem to continue to accelerate more aggressively rather than being attenuated by the speed being attained.

Dought it with that extra 300kg and lower torque figure, tbh though there wouldnt be much in it.

Hi all was bored and read this article on the soarer forum, this guy explains how his soarer is faster than a supra tt accelerating from 60mph, it's quite a long read but interesting and i would not know how accurate it is!

 

The TT is different in so many ways!

 

The TT is a short stroke motor; that is to say it is designed to Rev, and does so, readily.

 

A Stroke of only 71.5mm and the inherent 'turbine' smoothness of a Straight Six, 7000RPM is an easy achievement, and the TT will (if not artificially limited) keep going safely to 7700RPM without demur, the best in Japan (with revised valve gear) pull 9000RPM.

 

The Bore is 86mm, which is good for both torque and BHP propagation as it is also the Bore of the Supra and Soarer 3ltr motors.

 

They do not share the same Block; the 3ltr is a simple cast unit with different waterways for cooling, different height and different metal alloy. This was necessary for the greater Stroke, which (thanks to those who confirmed this point to me) is 86mm, making it much more inclined to produce torque.

 

The TT's engine must have been a loss leader, the use of T2000 steel for the bearing shells shows fanatical design care, the machining of the con-rods is almost sculptural, the pistons are 'single form' units, the alloy in the block the most durable alloy available outside Formula 1, it costs an absolute fortune to be this fussy!

 

The above also explains why the 2.5TT is superior to the 3.0TT, that Piston has to travel 20% further for each Stroke. This is a huge limitation on the rate at which the acceleration accelerates within the Engine as a whole, by co-incidence the best compromise Stroke for both internal acceleration and BHP propagation just happens to be around 68/72mm

 

So if you wanted a Turbo'd Straght 6 designed to do what a Turbo'd motor should do, then it will be limited to around 2.5ltrs, 2.0ltrs and the thing would need to rev its guts out, 3.0ltrs and it would be limited in its ability to Rev under load as freely as Turbo'd motors need to release the Turbo's full potential.

 

I have had the opportunity to run side by side with an Auto Supra TT at 60MPH, on a given signal we both pressed the loud pedal to the floor, he was left behind and could not catch me, I had to 'back-off 'at 110MPH by which time he was 2 car lengths behind, even I was surprised at the margin!

 

We did the same thing in each other's cars, the same result. But his car definitely seemed to me to be the faster! He did not think my Soarer was very quick when he first drove it, calling it an Old Man's Car, until that moment.

 

That difference between the 2 cars is also brought about by the B.rake M.ean E.ffective P.ressure, and the working pressure reaches it peak usually somewhere between the peak Torque RPM and the peak BHP RPM, but that's conventional engines, put Turbo's into the equation and it all changes.

 

To produce optimum acceleration of its components the BMEP must reach 145PSI early and peak at around 175PSI. The 2.5TT has at least 145PSI over a 4000RPM band and peaks at 173PSI, the 3.0TT peaks at 154PSI and only gives 145PSI over a 1200RPM range, this is the most important factor in performance motoring.

 

The most evident way to feel this is the way our TT's seem to continue to accelerate more aggressively rather than being attenuated by the speed being attained.

Anything to do with power to weight ?

Although not sure which is heavier,

The Soarer is a very under rated car indeed , You basically get Skyline performance and with a few tweeks 400 bhp is easily obtainable

And you can get all that car for less than £3k now .. not bad for a car that was £45k ish.. new

With a decent bodykit , leather refit inside you can make the Soarer quite a good looking motor,

Shame they are just so damn boring and bland in standard trim,

I have looked on and off at them over the last year or so to be honest, but it would need some serious make over regarding a body kit etc.

Was his name Mycroft?

Was his name Mycroft?

Don't you just love the old days

 

Don't you just love the old days

Yeah I sure do/did! ahhhh seems like it was so much better back then!

That's utter bollocks, i've owned both and the supra is just faster full stop.

Keyboard warrior-tastic. Whats the stock times on these?

No it is from a technical article on soarer owners site which explains exactly how engines work even including electronics etc, seems to make sense re the stroke time etc, and remember this was from 60mph

Auto was probably in overdrive, from 60mph the first thing that happens is you double-kick down into 2 and revs instantly rise to about 6k - well out of the boost range - you then rev the nuts upto redline until it changes up to 3 and you get some proper boost. So 2 car lengths yeah - if the above happened.

Oh - and by the way, in 3 at 60mph with O/D off, you are at about 3k revs, right in the sweet spot for instant boost at 4k

I may be slightly wrong with some of the rev ranges etc, but I do know this, if I'm cruising in traffic at 60mph, when the road clears and I want to take off, I need to have O/D off or when I kick down it sounds like the poor engine is chewing glass [sHOCK][/sHOCK] and I get no acceleration.

Just my take...

Shame they are just so damn boring and bland in standard trim.

I don't think I'd back (standard to standard) the Soarer against the Supra, but it would be interesting to see the result if they were run side by side.

Was his name Mycroft?

Standard Mycroft shite. Don't waste your time paying attention to it.

Cheers,

Brian.

not bad for a car that was £45k ish.. new

Eh? Where did you get that info from?

That's utter bollocks, i've owned both and the supra is just faster full stop.

PMSL straight to the point:respekt:

Dont forget the Lexus badge is worth an extra 50BHP

Ahh, good old Mycroft. I'd almost forgotten how much total bollocks he used to spout...

Must admit i miss the bullshit myself, despite his opinionated and bull remarks, he was entertaining.

Eh? Where did you get that info from?

common knowledge my man .. for those in the jap scene and Jap cars for years, (Long before we bought a Supra and came here)

just ask anyone in the Lexus club.

Thats why they never really sold over here ( in the lexus guise) because they were so very over priced, I remember a mates dad thinking of buying one of these back in 96 it was the price that killed it, he got a GS300 Sport in the end

Remember its only the JDM import models that are badged Toyota not Lexus,

The technology for its time was very ahead,

There are loads of models of these which most people aren't aware of

2.5tt:)

3.0 NA (Very rare) mate has one at his import dealership and it won't sell even for £2500:(

V8 (Slow)

V8T

to name a few

And manuals are very rare,

Typical Mycroft bollocks, I few technical terms copied and pasted in to make it sound like he knows what he's on about but it's obvious he doesn't even understand them. And what the fuck does this mean...

"This is a huge limitation on the rate at which the acceleration accelerates within the Engine as a whole"

Ah yeah, the rate at which the acceleration accelerates. Complete bollocks, the soarer is heavier and has less torque.

The Soarer was never sold in UK as I remember. I think it's funny the way the owners scramble to slap a Lexus badge on them

There was a US Market Lexus SC which was the same chassis but only sold with the V8 engine. All other engine variants used with this chassis were badged Toyota Soarer.

Slapping Lexus badges on 1JZ and 2JZ engined Toyota Soarers is as sad as that bloke who slapped Aston Martin badges on his Supra

p.s. There was never a V8 Turbo model. That is again utter bollocks.

The Soarer was never sold in UK as I remember. I think it's funny the way the owners scramble to slap a Lexus badge on them

 

There was a US Market Lexus SC which was the same chassis but only sold with the V8 engine. All other engine variants used with this chassis were badged Toyota Soarer.

 

Slapping Lexus badges on 1JZ and 2JZ engined Toyota Soarers is as sad as that bloke who slapped Aston Martin badges on his Supra

 

p.s. There was never a V8 Turbo model. That is again utter bollocks.

Sorry mate but you are slightly wrong too....

The Lexus was sold in the US with the V8(4.0/1UZ-FE /SC400) and the I6(3.0/2JZ-GE/SC300)

So it WAS sold with a 2JZ.

Here is the complete list of models

JZZ30 2.5ltr I6 Turbo (Only sold in Japan)

JZZ31 3.0ltr I6

UZZ30 4.0ltr V8

UZZ31 4.0ltr V8 Air Suspension

UZZ32 4.0ltr V8 Active Suspension (Only sold in Japan)

Curb Weight, lbs. 3506

Why is it such a crime to put Lexus badges on the Soarer ? If it had been imported into the UK then it would have been, just as the SC430 is now. Are you saying that everyone in the states who purchased one is a snob for having a Lexus badge. Lexus and Toyota are one and the same whats the big deal. IMO the Lexus badge evokes quality. It is the creme de la creme of Toyota and that is why I choose to put them on my Soarer.

Lexus Soarer

A question often asked is about the name of the car. Is it a Lexus Soarer or a Toyota? The official answer is that there was never a car called the Lexus Soarer produced anywhere in the world. In Japan the car was called the Toyota Soarer, in the United States of America it was called either the SC400 or the SC300.

However, the car was never officially available in the United Kingdom, Australia or New Zealand, home to many a model imported from Japan. Owners in these countries do change the emblems on imported Toyota Soarers to read as a Lexus Soarer. There are many arguments from owners both for and against but those who do change the emblems to Lexus Soarer do so because the of the cars undoubted luxury pedigree, not to deceive but to pay homage to the Lexus brand.

ask anyone in the Lexus club.

 

Thats why they never really sold over here ( in the lexus guise) because they were so very over priced, I remember a mates dad thinking of buying one of these back in 96 it was the price that killed it

Are you sure about that? I thought the Soarer was never sold over here.

The Soarer was never sold in UK as I remember.

I believe that Toyota did bring in a few, as sort of official grey imports.

Mine just has the Griffin badge on the front, so I'm staying out of the Toyota/Lexus debate

Here is the complete list of models

JZZ30 2.5ltr I6 Turbo (Only sold in Japan)

JZZ31 3.0ltr I6

UZZ30 4.0ltr V8

UZZ31 4.0ltr V8 Air Suspension

UZZ32 4.0ltr V8 Active Suspension (Only sold in Japan)

supras soarers are great cars

iv owned a boosted 1jz tt soarer not particularly slow but more of a cruiser

but the single turbo supra iv driven was untouchable ,the extra torque it makes it pull you along rather then waft you like the soarer

depends there both awesome and spawned in a similar fashion (share parts etc)

iv seen ugly and nice versions of both cars depends what tickles ur pickles

I thought I smelt his writing. Ignore anything he has shat onto the internet.

-Ian