Is a Single worth it?

This thread is purely to hear other peoples opinions on this subject. A few of us met last night in Farnborough, and i was very kindly taken for a ride in a BL t61 single car.

Below is what i have posted to a topic in the south east meets section, but few are going to see it there and i'm genuinly curious to hear other peoples opinions. This is not to discuss Clarkey's car, its a fantastic car, with a lot of effort/money put into it. I just want to hear opinions of others that have gone from BPU to single.

Clarkey, thankyou very much for taking the two of us out, really appreciated it a lot. This was the first time i had been in a single car and it was good to fully understand the workings of it, and equally have several bits demonstrated at the same time. What made it better for me, was that your setup is exactly what i would be going for. Mine being an auto, a BL T61, greddy 3 row and emanage blue would suit my car perfectly.

I'm gona give an opinion on what i saw and felt. I dont want you to take any of this the wrong way. Being a passenger in a car will always make the car appear faster, i feel only by driving a single could i give a more accurate view. I would really like to know the power that your car was putting down last night as it may well change my opinion some what. Your car was definetly quicker than mine, the power delivery was very different, as i'm used to more of a sudden power delivery right from the bottom of the rev range. With yours it was more of a delay below 3000 and then a sudden surge around 3500/3800. But dont get me wrong, when the power came on it was very strong. The sound of the screamer pipe and the wastegate was absolutely awesome, nothing else like it. I could see me having to strap a shell garage to the back of the car for the first few months as it would just be too adictive!

It would have been great to have been in the car at 1.4 bar instead of 1.2, as i'm sure the difference would be huge. As soon as you get a remap due to the fmic and get the clutch sorted i'm sure it will be a totally different beast. The only thing i would say is this, experiencing the car at 1.2 bar last night, and knowing how my bpu car drives at only 1.0 bar (need a boost controller to up it to 1.2) could i honestly say i would be over the moon after spending £8000 or there abouts, erm, not sure. If i had spent that money, i would want to be dam pleased with what i had. Not just, not sure.

Now dont get me wrong it was a very fast car, but part of my thoughts for writing what i have, is down to this. How often and where would i use all this power to warrant having such a large bill. It proves the fact to me, how good value going bpu is. bpu is achieved very easily and will make for a good 400hp car, which to be fare, will kill most things on the road. If you respect the car and dont thrash it everywhere, you appreciate the power far more when you do use it.

For me as well, i'm at a stage in life where i have other priorities, such as purchasing my own house in the next couple of years instead of renting. Unfortunately we all have to have a sensible side. That is me talking as well, not Suzanne!

So all in all, yes i enjoyed the experience very much, but it has also made me appreciate the car i currently have very much and for now, am happy to purchase all the other parts required to do this conversion properly over time to spread the cost. Such as intercoolers, gauges, brakes etc.

But as i said, dont take this as me disrespecting your car Christian, i'm not at all. The demonstration last night i know was no where near the true efficiency of that turbo. But it was still an absolute blast, and the noise, well, thats virtually worth the cost all by itself. But for me, it has to be when the time is right, as opposed to getting myself in dept to be able to achieve it.

Another way of looking at it could be this. £8000 could buy a second hand caterham, or a similar toy to scare yourself and have fun. It would also be more of an investment than going single.

At the end of the day my car isnt slow at all, if i woke up on a sunny day and had the choice of taking out a 400hp supra and a caterham or simply a 600hp supra, i think id rather have the choice of 2 cars.

This is a very valid and fair point and it is all down to the individual and a bit like gambling it is addictive when you start to tune and also like gambling only spend what you can afford as i have in the last few years had a few awesome cars and spent a fortune to have what is pride and knowledge of owning quick cars as much as actually pushing them to the limit, you are right 400BHP is great but when you drive it for a while and then go up to 600BHP you want 800 and so on, get a house in my opinion and do it slowly!

I posted my two projects anyway and you are looking at a lot of overtime !!

i guess it does come down very much to a personal opinion, and also how much money you can afford to chuck at a car, without lowering (or delaying) your own standard of living.

The pictures posted above, do show an immense amount of hard work, time and money. If you had the chance, would you do it again? seeing as you have posted 2 different cars, i would think your answer would be yes

Indeed singles and parallel twins arn't for everyone....

I went single for Linear power, more power and noise....i didn't mind the perceived loss in power low down as in town, who needs turbos?

But I never do drive hard which is why my next one, unless it comes with a single...won't be changed from the stock twins...I found I didn't push the car hard enough to warrent the extra power and the purchase expense. (Though the single was more frugal round town).

i guess it does come down very much to a personal opinion, and also how much money you can afford to chuck at a car, without lowering (or delaying) your own standard of living.

 

The pictures posted above, do show an immense amount of hard work, time and money. If you had the chance, would you do it again? seeing as you have posted 2 different cars, i would think your answer would be yes

actually I have done it far too often ask my e wife

This is my 2nd Supra and the Skyline well that owes me £!!

I find I have got carried away at times looking for massive BHP and spend/brought items that to be honesy were well over spec'd but too late to regret it now!

yes Alex, thats very true, to be honest, last night i had no problem at all with how the power was delivered. If you want boost, you simply stay in a rev range that will give it to you, and even if your not, it doesnt take long at all to get there, certainly not with a T61 anyway.

Think you might have edited your post Alex, to add a bit more, unless i didnt read it all first. Thats exactly the kind of reply i'm looking for. But equally pro's and cons, i'm not slating single cars here at all

How did you find the lag with the autobox, was it very noticable?

How did you find the lag with the autobox, was it very noticable?

The car i went in was a manual matey. But again this is a good point, as mine is an auto. How happy are people with singles and auto's?

yes Alex, thats very true, to be honest, last night i had no problem at all with how the power was delivered. If you want boost, you simply stay in a rev range that will give it to you, and even if your not, it doesnt take long at all to get there, certainly not with a T61 anyway.

 

Think you might have edited your post Alex, to add a bit more, unless i didnt read it all first. Thats exactly the kind of reply i'm looking for. But equally pro's and cons, i'm not slating single cars here at all

1 good point maybe to add is that there is a huge difference in power delivery from one style of single to the next, some being very laggy and delivering high reving power and some spooling up very quickly but sacrificing some top end power

A few have done it, but I think I would deffo go for a manual conversion if I were to do it..speak to paulmac or Gamer, there both auto I think, so it Burt

I'm very happy with mine. It suits my driving style and the trips I do and the roads round here. I also enjoyed the techie challenge of speccing and building it. But single setups aren't for everyone and I'd be happy with a sequential system if I had to have one.

-Ian

I am very happy with mine and built it for low down grunt, i have hardly any lag at all and i think 500+ is more than enough for a road car.

EDIT: forgot to add the noise too

Thanks Ian. i think looking at things from your point of view is that you are mechanically knowledgeable enough to piece a project like this together yourself. Therefore saving on labour charges, but also being able to start it up at the end and say 'i built that' hence reaching 2 achievements in one

The car i went in was a manual matey. But again this is a good point, as mine is an auto. How happy are people with singles and auto's?

Mines an Auto and I really enjoy the way you can change your driving style from stuck in traffic relaxed to pushing it a bit and letting the Auto do the work (its running just over 600BHP with an HKS T04R single)

I agree Wez, that 500hp is a perfect amount for a road car, its just a shame that the difference between bpu and 500hp is a single conversion. But maybe i'm also forgetting that being able to achieve 400hp so cheaply is nothing to turn your nose up at. Most cars couldnt get anywhere near that for the cost a supra can.

Mines an Auto and I really enjoy the way you can change your driving style from stuck in traffic relaxed to pushing it a bit and letting the Auto do the work (its running just over 600BHP with an HKS T04R single)

Thats the exact reason i bought an auto in the first place. I wouldnt choose it in any other car, but the supra box works well and has enough power to make it work

It proves the fact to me, how good value going bpu is. bpu is achieved very easily and will make for a good 400hp car, which to be fare, will kill most things on the road. If you respect the car and dont thrash it everywhere, you appreciate the power far more when you do use it.

Absolutely, the stock sequential system is fantastic, but some people will always want bigger and better. Me included

I'll be looking at a T61 or T67 at some point and I'd like to get my hands dirty and do the majority of the spanner work as a learning experience (it might be a very expensive learning experience! ).

Unless the car is mainly for the drag strip I personally don't see why people go with huge laggy turbo's with a very narrow power band.

Mines an Auto and I really enjoy the way you can change your driving style from stuck in traffic relaxed to pushing it a bit and letting the Auto do the work (its running just over 600BHP with an HKS T04R single)

what ECU do you use? how does it cope with the auto shifts....if I were to do this I think I would opt for a piggy back unit over stand alone

what ECU do you use? how does it cope with the auto shifts....if I were to do this I think I would opt for a piggy back unit over stand alone

Both the skyline (of course manual) and the Supra (Auto) ran F Con V Pro and the Auto box has been uprated to handle more power but my first single supra ran a standard auto box and 550bhp and never missed a beat (did change the box oil on a regular basis)

Just for info and not trying to distract people from the main topic here but, you CAN feel a difference while driving Christian's car at 1.4 bar from 1.2 bar.

I drove his car for ~2hrs a couple of months back.

I too am auto and wanted to get a feel for the T61 in both manual and auto to see what the differences were like but, my plans got cut short....but, that's another story.

oh yeah, i'm sure Peter, hence me mentioning that in my first post. Thats why i'd love to know what power a BL T61 would make at about 1.2 bar. That would give me a better comparison to mine

Just for info and not trying to distract people from the main topic here but, you CAN feel a difference while driving Christian's car at 1.4 bar from 1.2 bar.

 

I drove his car for ~2hrs a couple of months back.

 

I too am auto and wanted to get a feel for the T61 in both manual and auto to see what the differences were like but, my plans got cut short....but, that's another story.

I've been in it at 1.4bar as well Those T61's really do motor and they come on song nicely. The fuelling setup was inadequate to safely and continually run 1.4bar so Christian is (sensibly and commendably) limiting himself to 1.2 until that's sorted.

I wouldn't go bigger than a 67, it really is enough power for a shopping car It's deffo laggier than a 61 but it's also deffo more powerful.

-Ian

The fuelling setup was inadequate to safely and continually run 1.4bar

Absolutely! 100% injector duty. Best be safe than sorry Ian.

The injector duty cycle sky-rocketed as soon as I replaced my SMIC with a Greddy 3row FMIC at 1.3 bar of boost.

Clutch slip also occurred after we fitted the FMIC too.

My EM was mapped originally against a stock SMIC. Ian set the ebc up to 1.35 bar, injector duty cycle was 95%. I then after the mapping - turned the ebc down again .. 1.3 bar to lower the duty cycle.

The DEFI boost gauges - must've not been as accurate as the EM pressure sensor.

What a great topic and a great debate

Im in the middle of making my mind up as to whether to go single which lets face it if it did nothing else it really finishes off the engine bay a treat or i fit new o/e uk turbos as i like the sequential system.

I too have an auto so im not looking for more hp really and again im at BPU now with a dyno'd 430bhp, ive got to go one route or the other and the cost is quite similar for me which ever way i go.

Ive ruled out hybrids for my own reasons and now would love a run in a uk auto with a single on it, preferably a PHR kit using Map Ecu as thats what im thinking to fit if i went the single route.

Regards

Dunk

I was BPU for around a year before I went for a single turbo upgrade. Worth every penny