bolarbag Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I've been thinking about this for all of 5minutes, but has anyone other than the GT500 Tuners did the 3S GTE Conversion? Now before you think I'm insane, the reason I ask is that although the 2JZ has the potential of a theoritical 2000bhp(or something like that) wouldnt a fully rebuilt race spec 3S GTE make for a better perfomance supra as installed it would make it mid engined and also save a good few lbs in weight? I'm refering to those who would like the supra as a track car because Im sure that would be the best application. Its just with the cost of the HKS 3.4l install and single turbo, you could yank out the 2JZ and pop in a fully rebuilt 3S GTE for a whole lot cheaper. What would be the disadvantage in say a 600-700bhp 3S GTE compared to the 600-700Bhp 2JZ GTE? I'm seriously thinking this may be a very good option because I'm looking to save major weight, does anyone know of the weight differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Monkey Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 We have thought about the MR2/Celica engine as well! would probably need a modified bell housing to take the Supra Tranny. Awesome idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Yeah I one of my mechanics mentioned that, I love my Getrag 6Speed but I would be prepared to go for the 5speed if needs be? Im quite surprised no one has went for this option, (maybe there is a reason for this) even a major tuner as it would hopefully make a pretty awesome track supra? The GT500 Supra's do pretty well, I'm looking at replacing the body parts with the carbon fibre parts from seibon, you may ask why dont you buy another car for the track but I love my sup, it would make an awesome project not to mention at 700bhp n say 150k lighter it would still be awesome on the motorway! I would probably keep the 2JZ if I was going for a drag car but if you dont want to unleash 1000bhp whats the point. Im sure it wouldnt be that practical whereas the 700bhp 3S GTE(Even though its probably taking it to its limits) would still be a daily driver(kinda!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Im sure well do it one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Why dont you do it soon, so you can be my Guinea Pig!!! Someone must have carried this out though...know anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Not a lot of people know this...but lol The engine used in the GT series Supras - JGTC supra ( GT500) and the Toms etc etc , didnt actually use a 3sgte, they used a toyota racing engine called a 503e, the 3s-gte engine is designed and based on thie 503e but no parts are interchangable between the 2. http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20Information/toyota_twin_cam_article.htm great read on toyota engine development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hob Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 @ 700bhp your on the limits of the block.... and that would cost a shed load to get there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 @ 700bhp your on the limits of the block.... and that would cost a shed load to get there Depends on what you do to the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hob Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Depends on what you do to the block. Yea but why would you want to spend £20k getting 600+bhp surely its easier to get a complete carbon fibre supra shell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 503i sounds awesome, but I gather longetivity and reliability would be an issue...would a benchmark figure of 600bhp really be that expensive surely not as expensive as a rebuilt 2JZ GTE? I realise 700bhp would be achievable without a rebuild on the 2JZ, but its more for the response and weight that the 3S GTE sounds more appealling, I was gonna post up on the gt4oc to find out the true potential of the 3S GTE...know of anyone with a reliable 600bhp +? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hob Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I was gonna post up on the gt4oc to find out the true potential of the 3S GTE...know of anyone with a reliable 600bhp +? Fensport, and also Ian on gt4oc, other than that it drops to around 500bhp, most seem to be around 400-450 after a forged rebuild, apexi power fc, injectors, turbo, etc it can be done, but 600bhp is a different story, Fennies want 25k for their corolla: This car has now been extensively modified to compete in both drag and track based events, it has been modified to accept all engine and 4 wheel drive transmision from the celica gt4. The fuel system is upgraded with a modified fuel tank, and fuel rail with TTE 950cc fuel injectors, HKS fuel pressure regulator, -6 braided fuel lines and a modified 255L/HR fuel pump. The turbocharger used is the Garrett GT35/42 Ball bearing unit, mounted on a HKS stainless steel tubular manifold, a HKS 50mm remote wastegate with 50mm screamer pipe. The exhaust system is handmade in house, using 90mm mandrel bent pipework from turbo to single back box with 90mm stainless tailpipe. Chrome heat shielding. A Blitz LM Front mount "bar & plate" Intercooler, from the mitsubishi evo 6, is used with custom made stainless steel 70mm piping and Samco silicon hosing. The ERL water injection system is controlled by motec, and keeps the intake charge cool. The cooling system is modified using a trd low temp thermostat and a high pressure cap. A GT4 ST185 radiator is used in conjunction with an alloy header tank and a swirl pot is used to seperate air and water. Our Fensport Racing Triple plate clutch with lightweight steel flywheel, standard transmission from the celica GT4. A MoTeC M4 Pro ECU is used to control the engine as well as Boost Control, Water injection, Full throttle gearchange, Launch control, Data logging and Wide band Lambda, all mapping is done by ourselves.The standard ecu has been retained to run all the normal functions such as dashboard etc. The Front suspension is handbuilt using Koni adjustable shocks and GT4 front springs. Superflex bushes and a Trd strut brace. Whiteline adjustable camber bolts. Rear suspension uses Koni adjustable shocks with Fensport Springs, TRD strutbrace. The chassis is modified to accept a MR2 Turbo anti-roll bar with poly bushes, and custom droplinks. Front brakes are Hi - spec 6 Pot Calipers with massive 335 x 32mm front discs. Braided brake lines. The rear brakes have been upgraded using the 20valve corolla disc conversion, 263mm diameter. Interior - TRD Race seats (6.3kgs), Momo steering wheel, Blitz and Spa digital gauges, ERL digital display. Also included - All interior 3" stainless exhaust system (quieter for road and better ground clearance) 4 x Compomotive MO 5 spokes with road tyres Spare bonnet,original mirrors, full size fuel tank, spare koni shocks front and rear with new front springs, low rear spoiler. Please see fensport cars for results and more details. Price as is - no engine £12,500 With 300+bhp standard engine fitted and mapped from £14,500 With 450+bhp forged piston engine fitted and mapped from £16,500 With 600bhp fully built engine fitted and mapped from £20,000 With 600bhp fully built engine fitted and mapped and straight cut dog transmision from £25,000 Contact:Adrian, Tony or Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 your forgetting that the 3sgte engine in RWD configuration is a totally different subject. Ok build one of the strongest blocks you can (hks stroker kit to 2.2), then a custom drysump oil system, and engine still has to sit at 15 degrees, electric water pump, big cooling system, custom built intake manifold and dual rail fueling, full race head cams - full titanium components, custom bellhousing for choice of gearbox (proll getrag 6spd) complete custom clutch system (your limited to the size of the 3sgte flywheel as you cant go much bigger on that block) then you gotta remember this is a 4 banger so your choice of turbo will play a major part - the VE characteristics of the 3sgte wont let you run a t66 for example as you'll die of old age with lag.. honestly not even worth thinking about.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hob Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 your forgetting that the 3sgte engine in RWD configuration is a totally different subject Yep although a 4wd supra would be cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Yep although a 4wd supra would be cool 4wd is boring....thats why all GT4's should be like this... http://media.putfile.com/V8-Celica-GT4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hob Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 4wd is boring....thats why all GT4's should be like this... http://media.putfile.com/V8-Celica-GT4 LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 IMO (with personal experience of 3S-GTE's) the block just ain't up to it. Choose the 2JZ-GTE for reliability every time. You'll also get better response from the 3 litre with a moderately sized turbo for 700bhp compared with the lag monster you'd need on the 2 litre for 700bhp. Torque would be around 500lb/ft with that power figure on the 3S-GTE but around 650lb/ft with the 2JZ-GTE - torque is what really matters in this comparison, given that the 2JZ can also be revved higher than the 3S-GTE. Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Thats the key ..torque is paramount Edit: never mind its been covered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiceRocket Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally Posted by bondango 4wd is boring....thats why all GT4's should be like this... http://media.putfile.com/V8-Celica-GT4 Near the end of that video was that the boot lid acting as an airbrake? [GRIN][/GRIN] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 IMO (with personal experience of 3S-GTE's) the block just ain't up to it. Choose the 2JZ-GTE for reliability every time. You'll also get better response from the 3 litre with a moderately sized turbo for 700bhp compared with the lag monster you'd need on the 2 litre for 700bhp. Torque would be around 500lb/ft with that power figure on the 3S-GTE but around 650lb/ft with the 2JZ-GTE - torque is what really matters in this comparison, given that the 2JZ can also be revved higher than the 3S-GTE. Cheers, Brian. Isn't the rev3 the incarnation with the weakest block of the five? The rev4 has thicker cylinder walls iirc and the rev5 has a revised head I think. To get to a reliable 700bhp from the 3SGTE it's probably going to cost you £13k in parts alone, you'll need a lagtastic dustbin sized turbo and a much higher rev limit (iirc Top Secret's revs to 10k). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Top secret used a rev 5 on thier Gold car which rev's to 8500 @ 750ps but they put about 3 times your figure into the engine and drive train. higher rev line is due to the 2.2 stroker kit http://www.topsecretjpn.com/wbsupra3.jpg OP SECRET GT-300 Supra engine - 3S-GTE DOHC 16v 2.2L 4 cyl crankshaft - Garage Fukui 2.2L stroker crank and con rods pistons - HKS Forged cams - HKS 272º with HKS adjustable cam gears turbocharger - TRUST T-88 34D wastegate - TRUST TYPE-R intercooler - TRUST 3 layer 600mm core tube and fin design inlet manifold - Custom TOP SECRET filter - TRUST Airinx foam filter ecu - HKS FCON-V PRO injectors - 8x 540cc Denso units on two rails boost control - GReddy PRofec B boost - 1.8bar [26.1psi] exhaust - 4" with TOP SECRET Titan muffler wastegate - Dedicated 3" side venting exhaust manifold - 50mm tubular transmission - Getrag 6sp clutch - OS Giken Tripple Plate clutch differential - TRD LSD calipers - Alcon 4pot disks - TRUST 2pc 355mm shocks - OHLINS coil over front rims - VOLK RACING TE-37 LE 18"x9.5" [255-35-18"] rear rims - VOLK RACING TE-37 LE 18"x10.5" [275-35-18"] horsepower - 720hp @ 8500rpm torque - 637nm of torque at 7800rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Actually heres the spec to most of the 3S powered supras over the years...notice one use 10 Bosch motor sport pumps lol http://kaferjca0.tripod.com/3sgteinfo.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hob Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 aww the ickle engine looks sweet in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2JZ-GTE-IS200 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 use a turbocharged altezza unit, a good reliable 500hp is available with the right build. and less than half the weight of a 2jz.......behind the front wheels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Trial did a 3SGTE engined Supra, will try and dig out details. Trial like their tracks, and not 1/4 mile. Their 3S Supra got round tsukuba in a very respectable time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Just thought id update this thread.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toyota-Supra-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing-track-drag-drift_W0QQitemZ170149177046QQihZ007QQcategoryZ18290QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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