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mawby
10-07-06, 14:27
Following complaints from Pete @ THOR Racing, and in light of impending legal action against the club, I am hereby requesting that no posts or threads are made on this forum regarding THOR Racing that could be perceived as libellous, inflammatory, or potentially reputation damaging, unless you have documented evidence to back up your claims.

mawby

Todd
10-07-06, 14:29
in light of impending legal action against the club

:blink:

On what grounds?

Pixelfill
10-07-06, 14:34
:blink:

On what grounds?

:yeahthat:

surely any comments in threads are personal opinion (conjecture and hearsay), and nothing to do with the club anyway, unless the complaint is on the grounds of inadequate moderation (which I sincerely hope is not the case). Hopefully all will be well.

I haven't checked but it might be an idea to at least lock the offending threads - although maybe you've already got that covered.

Mike

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 14:34
fair do's..... when's their trader renewal due?

Then he can try and sue us all for freedom of speech as members, to be honest if i was trying to keep customers i wouldnt threaten the club that we all love :no:

mawby
10-07-06, 14:38
On what grounds?Pete neglected to mention which threads and/or posts he specifically took objection to. Our hosts and I have both e-mailed him asking for more details. I will know more when one of us gets a reply.

michel lane
10-07-06, 14:44
I believe this is a public forum , if the threads are on the public section then he cant do squat,due to freedom of free speech, if there were in the members section then he can, thats if he wants to pursue it to court , which means mega money . But its up to the mod's to decide which way they want to look at it ,What happened to the feedback section , i though thats what this was for ??

michael
10-07-06, 14:45
What happened to the feedback section , i though thats what this was for ??

People are too scared to use it properly, probably because traders come along with heavy-handed threats about legal action each time someone dares to question their work.

Thorin
10-07-06, 14:53
Yeah when's their trader renewal up? Bye Thor.

michel lane
10-07-06, 14:53
if they are willing to spend there hard earn pennies on this then let them ...do it , but why are traders worried about this , if they did the things right in the first place then it would not come to this .... it just seems strange that you get persecuted for complaining ... well its up to the people involved to bring the matter up, if its true then what is the problem ?? so you get 1-3 solicitors letters , so what ... its having the balls to go all the way to court and seeing if they can afford to loose all that money . ..well if i was pissed off about someones service , and they did not do anything towards rectifying it, i know i would not hassiate on using it or shaming them .... as long as i have giving them ample time to resolve the issues .

mawby
10-07-06, 14:58
when's their trader renewal due?Their trader renewal is 3rd March 2007.

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 15:00
Their trader renewal is 3rd March 2007.


ohh :(

cant we through them off?!? refund his money? surely if legal action has been threatened then you can disable his forum...whats the contract like lol

andrew7
10-07-06, 15:00
If I say something libellous about someone/trader on here, surely it is me who has committed the offence and not the forum, who is simply stating an (my) opinion?......

Pete
10-07-06, 15:10
If someone has said something which isn't correct and just looking to smear Thors reputation then this should indeed be persued.

The club should fully co-operate with any legal requests and indeed remove any content in question until an official outcome is received.

In general the club itself has nothing to worry about unless it was seen to endorse the alledged content and refuse to remove it.

Members should appreciate the potential seriousness of the situation and refrain from inflaming the situation until it's resolved.

I have no interest nor bias towards either side.(except the club)

IMHO of course.

mawby
10-07-06, 15:10
If I say something libellous about someone/trader on here, surely it is me who has committed the offence and not the forum, who is simply stating an (my) opinion?......That is correct, until the point where the libellous comment has been notified to the site administrator. At that point we have 24 hours to remove the comment, before we too become accountable for its contents. The same applies to our hosts.

I was only made aware of a problem this morning, and our hosts were notified on Saturday.

Unfortunately we cannot resolve this problem until Pete replies to our e-mails requesting the missing information from his original complaint.

Keith C
10-07-06, 15:12
Yes, but we as the 'publishers' can be held liable as well if we don't take action to remove libellous content. Likewise, so can our hosting company.

There are various defences under the 'fair comment' and 'privilege' clauses, but were legal action taken we'd then have to go to the expense and difficulties of solicitors.

Ark
10-07-06, 15:41
Surely the BBS is fundamentally a database.
Therefore why can't you filter and lock/hide/delete EVERY thread containing the word "THOR", until the issue is resolved. I'm certain I can guess which thread has triggered this threat though, so it must be pretty obvious to other people too.

Isn't there a list of automatically censored words too, which will automatically filter away the unwanted words.

Lucifer
10-07-06, 15:45
Surley if someone is doing bad work then there should be a system to be voted off. I dont have any experience with thor at all but it seems crazy to keep a trader (when we have so many) who is potentially giving bad service.

penguin
10-07-06, 15:46
:yeahthat:

Pete
10-07-06, 16:00
Surley if someone is doing bad work then there should be a system to be voted off. I dont have any experience with thor at all but it seems crazy to keep a trader (when we have so many) who is potentially giving bad service.
But if that trader contests the allegations in court and wins, and the club has been seen to ban the trader based on those allegations then the club itself could be in trouble?

Lucifer
10-07-06, 16:02
True, it woudl also need to be ballenced by people who have had good work done.

However, speaking as a trader, whay shoudl I compete with someone who is not giving 100%. Seems strange.

In theory I could setup another company, pay my ££££ as a trader, setup a website , take some money and F*** off with it, and the club will just say... ahhh never mind, he wont get renewed in 11 months. Bizzare to say the least.

outatime
10-07-06, 16:04
What a shame it has come to this, Pete Betts was an eminent member when I joined :(

Rayman
10-07-06, 16:05
Do thor really get a lot of business from here anyway, it certainly doesnt look like they try to hard, his section is practically empty compared with others!

mawby
10-07-06, 16:06
Isn't there a list of automatically censored words too, which will automatically filter away the unwanted words.There is, but I'm not sure censoring the word THOR is quite what Pete is after.

Bill Prawn
10-07-06, 16:09
Following complaints from Pete @ THOR Racing, and in light of impending legal action against the club, I am hereby requesting that no posts or threads are made on this forum regarding THOR Racing that could be perceived as libellous, inflammatory, or potentially reputation damaging, unless you have documented evidence to back up your claims.

mawby

Might be a good idea to lock this then before something is said that qualifies for the above:blink:

Pete
10-07-06, 16:13
However, speaking as a trader, whay shoudl I compete with someone who is not giving 100%. Seems strange.
I wouldn't consider them a competitor if I were you. You're quite different in your approach and main product ranges.




Just remember, it wouldn't take much serious legal action to shut the club down so it really is just best avoided for all our sakes n'est pas?

bromy
10-07-06, 16:14
Firstly I dont have a problem with thor, but this kind of thing sureley means that if anybody has a problem with a company that is not resolved to their satisfaction and want to warn other people before spending their hard earned if something should go wrong then we just have to shut the f*** up, wrong as people have said frredom of speech... very slippery slope IMO

Pete
10-07-06, 16:20
Firstly I dont have a problem with thor, but this kind of thing sureley means that if anybody has a problem with a company that is not resolved to their satisfaction and want to warn other people before spending their hard earned if something should go wrong then we just have to shut the f*** up, wrong as people have said frredom of speech... very slippery slope IMO
If the claims can be substantiated then there's nothing to worry about is there? Say what you like if you can prove it with hard evidence.

If a member mouthed off a load of unfounded nonsense specifically to hurt any traders reputation resulting in loss of trade - then what do you expect the trader to do? (Not that I'm saying this is whats happened here, I've no idea)

mawby
10-07-06, 16:22
Might be a good idea to lock this then before something is said that qualifies for the above:blink:I will be keeping a very close eye on this thread. Stopping "libellous, inflammatory, or potentially reputation damaging" posts is one thing, stopping freedom of speech is something completely different and I see no need for that.

mawby
10-07-06, 16:25
Just remember, it wouldn't take much serious legal action to shut the club down so it really is just best avoided for all our sakes n'est pas?Unfortunately not. Hopefully the threat of legal action will be dropped when I remove the thread/post causing the problem.... when Pete tells me which one(s) it is.

mrboost
10-07-06, 16:26
Can anyone point us in a NON libellous way to why this post was put up ? I was about to book my motor in for a fuel setup. I have always founf Peter to be honest and suitably priced....Would like to no more before I commit to my car being setup ?

mawby
10-07-06, 16:36
Can anyone point us in a NON libellous way to why this post was put up ? I was about to book my motor in for a fuel setup. I have always founf Peter to be honest and suitably priced....Would like to no more before I commit to my car being setup ?"I'm sorry. My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions."

Lucifer
10-07-06, 16:37
"I'm sorry. My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions."

Thats truley Bad :p

mawby
10-07-06, 16:38
Thats truley Bad :p:sly:

outatime
10-07-06, 16:39
Watched 'I, Robot' Recently? :)

mrboost
10-07-06, 16:45
LOL. Thanks for the PM

mawby
10-07-06, 16:48
LOL. Thanks for the PMI will stress that the PM did not come from me.

michael
10-07-06, 16:50
I will stress that the PM did not come from me.

Or me

Ark
10-07-06, 16:52
Unfortunately not. Hopefully the threat of legal action will be dropped when I remove the thread/post causing the problem.... when Pete tells me which one(s) it is.


I can't believe you can't or won't guess.

I maintain that under threat of legal action, an over-the-top defensive solution remains your best action until suitable information becomes available to you.

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 16:53
Or me

worried you're gonna get sued :eyebrows: lol

Thorin
10-07-06, 16:54
I must point out that I have sent a PM today, but it wasn't regarding THOR, or sent to MrBoost. Please don't sue me.

Bill Prawn
10-07-06, 16:56
worried you're gonna get sued :eyebrows: lol
Sue WSB2 :yes:

michael
10-07-06, 17:00
worried you're gonna get sued :eyebrows: lol

I already have one threat hanging over me, I can't be bothered to add another :)

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 17:01
Sue WSB2 :yes:
yea sue me, im worth sweet FA :D

and im gonna sue you for saying to sue me :blink:

mawby
10-07-06, 17:02
I can't believe you can't or won't guess.

I maintain that under threat of legal action, an over-the-top defensive solution remains your best action until suitable information becomes available to you.Our hosts have been waiting 2 days for a reply from Pete, and I have been waiting 4 hours now. I have even seen Pete log on to the forum. Still no reply from him.

In Pete's complaint he suggests there are more than one or two threads which he has taken objection to. I will, however, play it safe and go hunting for the word Thor and start deleting stuff.

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 17:04
I will, however, play it safe and go hunting for the word Thor and start deleting stuff.


I know what im gonna be doing this afternoon....editing posts :eyebrows: :D

Pete
10-07-06, 17:04
I've just twigged which is the likely suspect. :rolleyes:

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 17:05
Just out of question why are the hosts involved? Surely they get involved later on?

Bill Prawn
10-07-06, 17:05
Our hosts have been waiting 2 days for a reply from Pete, and I have been waiting 4 hours now. I have even seen Pete log on to the forum. Still no reply from him.

In Pete's complaint he suggests there are more than one or two threads which he has taken objection to. I will, however, play it safe and go hunting for the word Thor and start deleting stuff.
Don't think it is too hard to guess which are the threads he doesn't like and one of those should have been stopped very early on, but wasn't!

Bill Prawn
10-07-06, 17:11
yea sue me, im worth sweet FA :D

and im gonna sue you for saying to sue me :blink:

Yeah and I will counter sue you for crimes aginst chimps.

So nar nar na nar nar:p

mawby
10-07-06, 17:11
Just out of question why are the hosts involved? Surely they get involved later on?The normal procedure for a trader who has a problem is to contact me. I make a quick decision on the spot whether to lock/delete a thread or not, and then I consult the other mods to see what they think about it all.

Pete decided not to do this. Instead he took the time to go straight to our hosts, not once telling any moderator that he had a problem with a forum post. By going via our hosts he has made it an official complaint against the club, and as such has told our hosts.... well this,



Would you please contact the domain owner/s and ask that they remove discussion content about our company and cease any further inflamatory discussion or we will have to begin action against the web domain hosts to shut the site down.

So instead of contacting me, he contacted our hosts to tell them to contact me. Unfortunately our hosts only have my works contact details, hence I wasn't notified about this problem until this morning.

Ark
10-07-06, 17:12
Our hosts have been waiting 2 days for a reply from Pete, and I have been waiting 4 hours now. I have even seen Pete log on to the forum. Still no reply from him.

In Pete's complaint he suggests there are more than one or two threads which he has taken objection to. I will, however, play it safe and go hunting for the word Thor and start deleting stuff.

Suggest you lock and hide the threads. Experience tells me never to delete anything under these circumstances.

Bill Prawn
10-07-06, 17:13
Maybe some moderators are not keeping a close enough eye on things then:rolleyes:

Lucifer
10-07-06, 17:14
Just so I'm clear.

1. Your happy to let Thor continue trading on here and having banners
2. Your now goign to DELETE all the bad comments

So in newbies eyes, he is just a regular, good trader?

mawby
10-07-06, 17:15
Suggest you lock and hide the threads. Experience tells me never to delete anything under these circumstances.The forum has a 'soft' delete option which hides posts/thread from everyone except supermods.

tbourner
10-07-06, 17:16
I suspect they have a 'sin bin' hidden forum that they put 'deleted' threads in.

//edit: what he said /\

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 17:18
The normal procedure for a trader who has a problem is to contact me. I make a quick decision on the spot whether to lock/delete a thread or not, and then I consult the other mods to see what they think about it all.

Pete decided not to do this. Instead he took the time to go straight to our hosts, not once telling any moderator that he had a problem with a forum post. By going via our hosts he has made it an official complaint against the club, and as such has told our hosts.... well this,



So instead of contacting me, he contacted our hosts to tell them to contact me. Unfortunately our hosts only have my works contact details, hence I wasn't notified about this problem until this morning.

cheers, what ive put below is about the person who reported and not thor disclaimer out the way

Im saying the person who did this was very under handed and sneaky, do we really want a person like that on here, hell no.

Down with that company i cant mention

we have enough good traders on here now to be picky

michael
10-07-06, 17:18
1. Your happy to let Thor continue trading on here and having banners
2. Your now goign to DELETE all the bad comments


http://www.youre.co.uk ;)

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 17:19
http://www.youre.co.uk ;)


i edited one of my posts earlier in this thread....coz i knew you'd be waiting :D

Todd
10-07-06, 17:20
http://www.youre.co.uk ;)

http://nastyhobbit.wordpress.com/files/2005/10/grammartime.gif

mawby
10-07-06, 17:20
Just so I'm clear.

1. Your happy to let Thor continue trading on here and having banners
2. Your now goign to DELETE all the bad comments

So in newbies eyes, he is just a regular, good trader?1) Am I smiling?
2) I am going to delete two threads which I am aware of as being potentially problematic.

Please remember my initial post contained this "unless you have documented evidence to back up your claims". A statement is not libellous if it is true and can be proved.

Bill Prawn
10-07-06, 17:20
http://www.youre.co.uk ;)
If were now on about bad spelling and grandma then there are many other replys in this thread that has them.

Michael try not to miss the point ;)

michael
10-07-06, 17:21
i edited one of my posts earlier in this thread....coz i knew you'd be waiting :D

I'm just hoping Martin is in a good mood, he's working on a quote for some work I want doing, I suspect that might mean he adds a few zeros on :)

dane_stone
10-07-06, 17:22
I think all the threads should stay untill Thor can prove the work they did was to the correct standard. This isn't a club for traders it's a club for owners.

Pete
10-07-06, 17:23
If were now on about bad spelling and grandma then there are many other replys in this thread that has them.
What's your gran got to do with it?


I think all the threads should stay untill Thor can prove the work they did was to the correct standard. This isn't a club for traders it's a club for owners.
You wouldn't make it at being a professional mediator.

Bill Prawn
10-07-06, 17:24
What's your gran got to do with it?
Nothing she's dead:(

michael
10-07-06, 17:26
1) Am I smiling?


I hoped you were.....

Also in my mental image you are sat behind a formica table with a picture of an airship on it. To your left is a set of brass fire tools, to your right an umbrella stand fashioned from the hides of forty dragons. You are wearing a large top hat set at a jaunty angle.

The window is slightly ajar.

dane_stone
10-07-06, 17:31
You wouldn't make it at being a professional mediator.

Oh no Gutted.

mawby
10-07-06, 17:33
I hoped you were.....

Also in my mental image you are sat behind a formica table with a picture of an airship on it. To your left is a set of brass fire tools, to your right an umbrella stand fashioned from the hides of forty dragons. You are wearing a large top hat set at a jaunty angle.

The window is slightly ajar.Actually I am... smiling that is. It takes a lot before my sense of humour goes... hence my little I Robot joke.

Your description of me is pretty accurate. Well I'm sat behind and table and the window is open! :)

michael
10-07-06, 17:35
Your description of me is pretty accurate. Well I'm sat behind and table and the window is open! :)

In your face Derek Acorah!

Thorin
10-07-06, 17:37
I hoped you were.....

Also in my mental image you are sat behind a formica table with a picture of an airship on it. To your left is a set of brass fire tools, to your right an umbrella stand fashioned from the hides of forty dragons. You are wearing a large top hat set at a jaunty angle.

The window is slightly ajar.

Did you GM a game of Dungeon's and Dragon's I played in Rotherham in the early 90's?

michael
10-07-06, 17:41
Did you GM a game of Dungeon's and Dragon's I played in Rotherham in the early 90's?

Not that I remember but my spirit guide might have?

I was probably too busy handing out detentions and 'pages' to 1st year students because I thought their silly dice game was a bit tragic ;)

*turns to page 10 while rolling a golden orc*

dangerous brain
10-07-06, 17:42
MMM well this is not going to be doing business any good at all. IMO some of the things said in various threads have been a bit OTT. It only takes a question mark over a traders abilities or customer services for that business to start taking a hit. So in all seriousness its one thing to stand and shout from the roof about bad workmanship etc but its a whole nother thing to stand up and prove it. In most of these cases a dodgy trader will back down and sometimes vanish, a good one however will rightly get a p*ss on about it. How an individual businesman deals with his p*ss on is up to them. There are some ways that could be perceived as better than others. In this case as far as popularity is concerned perhaps a more personable approach would have been better. From a club point of view it is in our interest to be 100% sure that the allegations made are completely true and factual (lets face it p*ssed off punters are well known to exagerate their cases) so we can make an unbiased descision about using a trader or not.

Big Ads
10-07-06, 17:46
Whats a "p*ss on"? :innocent:

Charlotte
10-07-06, 17:54
I hoped you were.....

Also in my mental image you are sat behind a formica table with a picture of an airship on it. To your left is a set of brass fire tools, to your right an umbrella stand fashioned from the hides of forty dragons. You are wearing a large top hat set at a jaunty angle.

The window is slightly ajar.

Wow you could give JK Rowling a run for her money with that stuff!

mawby
10-07-06, 17:57
Pete has now contacted me and told me which thread was causing him concern. I have deleted that thread. Unfortunately Pete has stated that he still intends to seek legal advice against the club unless the original thread author presents him with written accusations and evidence. :(

michael
10-07-06, 17:58
Wow you could give JK Rowling a run for her money with that stuff!

"Mawby and the Forum of Flamers" - a short story by M J Unicorn

When I make my first million I'll sue you all.

Big Ads
10-07-06, 18:00
Is this the thread with a bus in it??

Thorin
10-07-06, 18:00
Unfortunately Pete has stated that he still intends to seek legal advice against the club

:ban:

Thorin
10-07-06, 18:03
Pete has now contacted me and told me which thread was causing him concern. I have deleted that thread. Unfortunately Pete has stated that he still intends to seek legal advice against the club unless the original thread author presents him with written accusations and evidence. :(

I would have thought the courts would laugh in his face, he told you which thread caused him offence, you deleted the thread in good time. Surely there is nothing more as a club we can do than that? The club is not reponsible for other peoples opinions or whether they apologise or not. Tell him to get f*cked.

I'd make a great mod :)

Pete
10-07-06, 18:04
Unfortunately Pete has stated that he still intends to seek legal advice against the club unless the original thread author presents him with written accusations and evidence. :(
I hope this evidence exists.

Besides which, I'm sure there's plenty of proven cases where such actions have failed against forums...time to hit Google.

Alex
10-07-06, 18:05
Pete has now contacted me and told me which thread was causing him concern. I have deleted that thread. Unfortunately Pete has stated that he still intends to seek legal advice against the club unless the original thread author presents him with written accusations and evidence. :(

I'm guessing that's Darren or P G Pete?

I expect you can't confirm or deny it.

I'd ban Thor for treating a members club in this manner...their only contribution has been disappointment.

Alex
10-07-06, 18:06
I would have thought the courts would laugh in his face, he told you which thread caused him offence, you deleted the thread in good time. Surely there is nothing more as a club we can do than that? The club is not reponsible for other peoples opinions or whether they apologise or not. Tell him to get f*cked.

I'd make a great mod :)

:yeahthat:

Apart from the last bit ;) :p

Thorin
10-07-06, 18:07
:yeahthat:

Apart from the last bit ;) :p

Telling him to get f*cked? :innocent:

Seriously, I'd make a good mod.

Pete
10-07-06, 18:15
Interesting Gaurdian article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/story/0,,1737445,00.html)

Summary:

FAQ: Internet libel

Should internet service providers be worried about libel?

The issue of liability was a grey area for ISPs, but a workable system has developed through European and UK law whereby ISPs are not generally considered liable as long as they act to take down potentially libellous material when notified.

Does this affect freedom of speech?

Some have argued that in ISPs' haste to take down material complained about, they are in effect curtailing freedom of speech.

Why haven't more of these cases come to court?

Lawyers say cases between individuals have tended to be settled before reaching court.

What about site owners?

Uncertainty remains over whether a site owner such as the BBC would be liable, particularly if it claimed to moderate comments before they were added to a website.

If courts ruled that a forum owner was responsible for the content put on by its users then they would effectively wipe out chatroom and forum technology as owners would need to moderate every single post prior to publication to avoid litigation. Clearly not possible.

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 18:19
i might just host a website about the threat being made to a car members club from a trader when everything was done in its power to help.

Wont be able to sue me as thats what happened (my evidence is this thread), of course then people could feel free to link to it from every car forum. they then couldnt complain because it would be the truth.

Dragonball
10-07-06, 18:21
In the words of one of our esteemed members here

Pete is to PR what Rudolf Nureyev is to Rugby League :)

mawby
10-07-06, 18:23
Yes I've been doing some digging around too. http://www.connectedinternet.co.uk/2005/3/25/54


Just because you didnít write any potentially libellous articles does not exonerate you, and David ran through an interesting case concerning Demon Internet to prove his point.

Site owners do not have to police their comments, but if someone posts something that is potentially libellous, you are obliged to take it down if someone tells you that they think it is libellous.

This however, puts bloggers in a difficult situation, because if the statement proves to be true rather than libellous, then if by removing it your actions could be deemed libellous.

To counter this, David recommended that site owners put a disclaimer on their site saying that any comments are permitted only because the site owner is letting you post, and that any comments will be removed for any reason at the absolute discretion of the site owner.

I think the club should be safe then. I took the post down as soon as Pete asked me to, and our registration rules state that we can delete any post/thread if we want to.

Thorin
10-07-06, 18:24
what Rudolf Nureyev is to Rugby League :)

Is he a full back? I'm not into rugby.

mawby
10-07-06, 18:28
haha I like this site http://www.urban75.com/Action/libel.html


There is also a defence of 'fair comment' which is somewhat vague but is basically there to stop someone being sued for saying they don't like Marks & Spencer or McDonalds or Piers Morgan.

You are allowed to say that - even if you were a famous star or a very persuasive writer and it could damage them financially. That's the law.

However libel does not extend to the dead. Nor is being abusive libelous.

So I can say "Keith Moon was a smackhead lower of the highest order" and it's no problem. In fact I could say "every human who ever existed was a smack dealing, gun running, uncle fu*ker."

This is completely okay. That's UK libel!

Pete
10-07-06, 18:28
I think the club should be safe then.
I'm 100% sure so.



"a timely reminder to all of us that the law on defamation applies as much on the internet as it does elsewhere.."

So all you guys that called me a homo in the last couple of years, that I do it with rubber dolls or like to stick things in my ass - watch out! :eyebrows:


every human who ever existed was a smack dealing, gun running, uncle fu*ker. - :rlol:!!

mawby
10-07-06, 18:29
So all you guys that called me a homo in the last couple of years, that I do it with rubber dolls or like to stick things in my ass - watch out! :eyebrows:Nope, see my last post!

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 18:34
Do you reckon thor would like to tell us, why it would like to sue our club and try and close us down / pinned down on what we can post?

Bob
10-07-06, 18:34
Surely Thor could now argue that this thread is damaging their reputation?

I know that with their approach to the whole matter, I'll never use the c*nts.

Pete
10-07-06, 18:36
Nope, see my last post!
So you're saying those are "fair comments"? :(

ChrisR
10-07-06, 18:39
Would you please contact the domain owner/s and ask that they remove discussion content about our company and cease any further inflamatory discussion or we will have to begin action against the web domain hosts to shut the site down.

That is bullshit, shut the site down. Now i know for sure THOR do not need our custom any more.

Ark
10-07-06, 18:45
Surely Thor could now argue that this thread is damaging their reputation?

I know that with their approach to the whole matter, I'll never use the c*nts.

Don't you see the difficult position that Thor have been put in, by the actions / statements of a few trigger-happy keyboard 'heros'? They have the awkward position of choosing between letting a few nasty threads run wild and ruin their business, or get heavy handed which makes people like you equally unwilling to use their services...if they don't stand up and protect themselves in a legal-defencible manner, they could wind up even worse off. The worst part is that some of the worst statements were by individuals in another country, believing that that somehow makes it OK, or they become untouchable by their location - there's not a lot Thor can do about that, but it still messes with their business.

Remember that it wasn't so long ago that EVERYONE was praising Thor.

grahamc
10-07-06, 18:48
this is pathetic... I thought that this was the entire point of this site, to aid the owners. IE poor trader, name them, good trader name them. I remember not so long ago that Martin (AKA Lucifier) had some negative response, but he choose to sort them out, in a plain site/public view.

What if you move the hosting of the site to somewhere like Thailand, where there are no laws, then we can say whatever we want to, without the threat of criminal action. Also we can then arrange for public hangings of thieving bastards!

This is only my opinion, please, no threats of law suits or criminal action, or else I will just have to take my supra and move back to South Africa, with straight open roads (going 30 - 40 kms stretches), very few speed cameras, corrupt cops, hell what am I waiting for, Im packing my car now!!!!!!!!!

Lucifer
10-07-06, 18:48
Why not just reply adn publicly address each issue?

grahamc
10-07-06, 18:50
Mawby - ok thats it, you and the other mods are now going to have to read every thread, approve it, comment out the pieces that you dont like, change it say all traders are great, and can do no harm.

Whats your email address???

grahamc
10-07-06, 18:51
Why not just reply adn publicly address each issue?

As we have all seen you do in the past... And other traders! :D

makes the customer happy, puts everything right in the members eyes (us), and the trader and pushed even higher up the pedistal.

Bob
10-07-06, 18:54
Don't you see the difficult position that Thor have been put in, by the actions / statements of a few trigger-happy keyboard 'heros'? They have the awkward position of choosing between letting a few nasty threads run wild and ruin their business, or get heavy handed which makes people like you equally unwilling to use their services...if they don't stand up and protect themselves in a legal-defencible manner, they could wind up even worse off.

Remember that it wasn't so long ago that EVERYONE was praising Thor.


If they don't bother to take the time to set the record straight on the forum, and then threaten to take away the club itself then they have, imho, tarnished their own reputation. The difficult situation is one that they have, in part, lumped on themselves.

As for me, I've barely seen a helpful / technical / informative contribution from Thor since I joined the forum. I'm sure they're probably all decent blokes who know a hell of a lot about cars and don't particularly like computers, but their PR, or lack thereof, is painting them in an altogether different picture.

Lewis
10-07-06, 18:54
Can't we just all get along?

lol

osso
10-07-06, 18:55
:blink: more drama happens on this mkivsupra.net forum than on eastenders! :blink:

Ark
10-07-06, 19:02
If they don't bother to take the time to set the record straight on the forum, and then threaten to take away the club itself then they have, imho, tarnished their own reputation. The difficult situation is one that they have, in part, lumped on themselves.


They did try to set the record straight.
Then an International Internet Warrior poured petrol on the flames with highly irresponsible comments.

colsoop
10-07-06, 19:02
Surely their issue is with the person who posted said comments that they consider libellous.
The club has done all in its power to accomodate said traders demands.

By the way does the club have legal insurance against such cases ?

grahamc
10-07-06, 19:05
If they don't bother to take the time to set the record straight on the forum, and then threaten to take away the club itself then they have, imho, tarnished their own reputation. The difficult situation is one that they have, in part, lumped on themselves.

As for me, I've barely seen a helpful / technical / informative contribution from Thor since I joined the forum. I'm sure they're probably all decent blokes who know a hell of a lot about cars and don't particularly like computers, but their PR, or lack thereof, is painting them in an altogether different picture.

I have to admit that I agree...

Since getting the supra, I have been on this forum day and night, much to the dismay of my fiancee... I have asked loads of technical questions, some more technical than others, I have done a lot of searching on here for some answers, and have seen very little from them.

I have not seen anything where they tired to rectify any of the complaints, but maybe thats just me.

grahamc
10-07-06, 19:08
Surely their issue is with the person who posted said comments that they consider libellous.
The club has done all in its power to accomodate said traders demands.

By the way does the club have legal insurance against such cases ?


Agree, they have done everything that they can.

Why should they have to DELETE (remove from public viewing) these threads just because someone that is upset with there service has made it public. This how we as owners and club member help each other.

Does it also mean, that if the original posters can prove it, that the thread will be re-instated? With an apology from the offending trader?

Scoboblio
10-07-06, 19:14
In my opinion, finding time to threaten legal action, but not finding time to tell your side of the story in a club spirited manner is bad business. This has caused nothing but further loss of business for THOR, where as a personalised response to the complains / comments made would have made them seem more human and willing to please.

andrew7
10-07-06, 19:19
I'd ban Thor for treating a members club in this manner...their only contribution has been disappointment.

Any trader who threatens to shut this site down is attacking EVERY member here and trying to deny us ALL the ability to communicate, obtain information, socialise (?) etc, etc...
That being the case, I think that to alienate thousands of performance car owners in this fashion is juvinile and petty, especially if action was not taken to rectify the situation amicably (we ARE a high-spending customer base after all) prior to threatening the legal action..

There are a few old sayings that apply here
"It takes months to get a good customer, but only seconds to lose one".....

"A satisfied customer will tell approximately three people. A dissatisfied customer will tell ten people!....work the math out for yourselves traders!...

"Never shit on your own doorstep, as the smell will linger forever"....

grahamc
10-07-06, 19:24
Any trader who threatens to shut this site down is attacking EVERY member here and trying to deny us ALL the ability to communicate, obtain information, socialise (?) etc, etc...
That being the case, I think that to alienate thousands of performance car owners in this fashion is juvinile and petty, especially if action was not taken to rectify the situation amicably (we ARE a high-spending customer base after all) prior to threatening the legal action..

There are a few old sayings that apply here
"It takes months to get a good customer, but only seconds to lose one".....

"A satisfied customer will tell approximately three people. A dissatisfied customer will tell ten people!....work the math out for yourselves traders!...

"Never shit on your own doorstep, as the smell will linger forever"....

That was before the days of the internet, you can start adding 0's to those numbers now. :p

pump gas pete
10-07-06, 19:25
The Truth,

Thor and Darren and I are ultimately BOTH at fault.

Pete COULD have picked up the 'phone and fixed the problem .Or not.

We COULD have picked up the 'phone and fixed the problem. Or not.

We are both at fault for using e-mails instead of voice.

We BOTH are at fault for allowing it to rumble. Sometimes we are all blind to the obvious.

We are all losers thereby.

Peter

SimonB
10-07-06, 19:38
Yes I've been doing some digging around too. http://www.connectedinternet.co.uk/2005/3/25/54



I think the club should be safe then. I took the post down as soon as Pete asked me to, and our registration rules state that we can delete any post/thread if we want to.

In that case I should delete all posts in their section too, including the ones promoting their stuff. We're all perfectly entitled to post stuff saying "Thor threatened to sue the site, that was uncalled for and they're a bunch of tossers". That qualifies as fair comment as it is an opinion based on fact.

Tannhauser
10-07-06, 19:43
If they don't bother to take the time to set the record straight on the forum, and then threaten to take away the club itself then they have, imho, tarnished their own reputation. The difficult situation is one that they have, in part, lumped on themselves.

As for me, I've barely seen a helpful / technical / informative contribution from Thor since I joined the forum. I'm sure they're probably all decent blokes who know a hell of a lot about cars and don't particularly like computers, but their PR, or lack thereof, is painting them in an altogether different picture.

It may be true that THOR have not posted on here much recently. But Pete Betts has contributed a lot to the forum over the years. I would also hazard a guess that he would see debating/defending Thor on the internet as being a 'hiding to nothing' - a futile exercise. It can be a very time consuming business to try to set your side down, especially when there often seems to be a lynch mob hanging around, eager to condemn. You know, some people (not you, Bob) seem almost outraged that they haven't appeared on here to defend themselves.

I'm not commenting at all on Thor's quality of service either positively or negatively, you understand. Just that I think (a) newer members aren't necessarily aware of Pete's contributions in the past and (b) if they want to pay a trader's fee and advertise, but not take part in internet battles, I don't see that as condemning. Not wise necessarily, but not damning.

Lewis
10-07-06, 19:43
Lee, in your quote from Pete, does it not say to remove all posts? brb


EDIT:
yep:
Originally Posted by THOR
Would you please contact the domain owner/s and ask that they remove discussion content about our company........................

That says that they wish any discussions referencing THOR to be removed, not just negative ones.

?

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 19:49
I'm not commenting at all on Thor's quality of service either positively or negatively, you understand. Just that I think (a) newer members aren't necessarily aware of Pete's contributions in the past and (b) if they want to pay a trader's fee and advertise, but not take part in internet battles, I don't see that as condemning. Not wise necessarily, but not damning.

Ive been here a long time and yes they have made valid contributions. So has mawby as a mod but if he threatened to shut this place down we would all be the same.

Do you think its right to try/ threaten to close OUR club down??

Tannhauser
10-07-06, 20:07
Ive been here a long time and yes they have made valid contributions. So has mawby as a mod but if he threatened to shut this place down we would all be the same.

Do you think its right to try/ threaten to close OUR club down??

Some, maybe many, on here are under the impression that Thor/Pete have never made any contribution to the mkiv community. That's not accurate and that's the only thing I'm addressing. I would point out the same if anyone else were surrounded by collective amnesia.

Your question is a good one, but unfortunately it can't compete with the pork chop I've just been told awaits me.

Regards

Cliff

BASHTHEBISHOP
10-07-06, 20:07
Why should they have to DELETE (remove from public viewing) these threads just because someone that is upset with there service has made it public. This how we as owners and club member help each other.



I totally agree with this. I have had a bad buying experience in getting my sup, which has tarnished my enjoyment of it a bit. Before i bought, i had a hunt around on the web for info on the company that i bought it off and could only find a handful of positive things and no negative things about the company involved.

HOWEVER since buying and joining this club and mentioning about said company on here, i found other members having bad experiences with the same company that have not posted a thread on here telling of there experiences.

I havent posted anything about this company yet, as i have tried many times to negotiate the situation with them.

I have now given up and feel i should worn others and encourage others i have spoken too to back this up. I will feel awful if another club member buys from this firm and have problems with or after the sale. Only decision still to make for me is wether to bother with legal action or not. Its only about £400 involved and i have been told that yes i would probably win but its a long drawn out process+ legal expense.

On the other hand even if i dont take legal action, will the company then take me to court for liable???

:blink: :rolleyes: :blink:

Can a mod clarify the legal liable bits please.

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 20:08
Your question is a good one, but unfortunately it can't compete with the pork chop I've just been told awaits me.


:rlol: time to post for a new keyboard again :(

Branners
10-07-06, 20:19
I have known Pete since the early days of supras.co.uk. His was the first mkiv I ever saw (his old monster with the veilside kit) and as a club we helped out Thor a lot in the past.

Im gravely disappointed that Pete should take the approach of trying to get the club shut down, if he didnt want to approach the other mods then he could have at least discussed it with me.

He has chosen his own path on this and it will be seen where that ends up.

JB

Paul
10-07-06, 20:36
Not wishing to comment on the original thread but I would like to add that I'm dissapointed too with Pete/Thor and this reaction by him.
Never used the guy or his company but heard lots from him and about Thor over the years, didn't have an opinion before now, let's just say I will never use their service and Pete's 'throw the toys out of the pram attitude' sucks!!

Paul

mawby
10-07-06, 21:25
Right, I e-mailed Pete after his last e-mail to voice my concerns that he was still intending to seek legal action against the club, and to point out that I didn't think there was any further action he could take against us anyway. Obviously Pete has been quite heated about the whole subject, but has now cooled off, and it is only fair to share some of his last e-mail with you as it suggests the intention to continue legal action against the club may have just been a misunderstanding.


Your actions are greatfully received. I will not take this matter further and didn't want it to go this far anyway.

"you are still intending to seek legal advice against the club"

I meant advice in terms of how generally clubs (I did not mean specifically MKIVSUPRA.NET) are run and their obligations. I was unaware of my position and Titan have answered this for me which matches your reply.

I appologise for my heated emails and will contact you direct in future if similar discussions get out of hand.

SupraStar 3000
10-07-06, 21:40
Good.

life without this forum would be unbearable :)

Whitesupraboy2
10-07-06, 21:43
I appologise for my heated emails and will contact you direct in future if similar discussions get out of hand.


no need as far as im concerned you wont be part of this forum! you may of cooled off but only because we have done what you asked. No one i know of has gone as far as to threaten the club before. Your bang out of order and us members should be allowed to vote on whether you stay or not.

geoffvalenti
10-07-06, 21:47
There are a few old sayings that apply here
"It takes months to get a good customer, but only seconds to lose one".....

"A satisfied customer will tell approximately three people. A dissatisfied customer will tell ten people!....work the math out for yourselves traders!...

"Never shit on your own doorstep, as the smell will linger forever"....

Being self employed I know that those sayings are so true.

Personally I'd prefer to lose money on a transaction and keep the customer happy, rather than piss him off so he tells all his mates.

If I traded from a forum like this, that had a captive audience for my services, I'd bend over backwards to keep the punters happy, Christ knows I do anyway :)

I'd think some of them were prats, hell I'd know some of them were, but I'd never tell them ;)

In business you're never going to please everyone you deal with, but you've got to do your absolute utmost to try, even if it costs you money. Just don't ever deal with the customer again.

I get customers phoning me, that I'd rather stick red hot pins in my eyes, than work for again, but THEY don't know that :D

Class One
10-07-06, 21:50
Time to put it down to experience and move on.

The mods are now aware of their position and obligations.

Some members, should do well to remember that it is our club, and sometimes making unfounded and defamatory comments could threaten OUR club.

Its the same old addage in all walks of life, the few can fu*k it up for the many.

geoffvalenti
10-07-06, 21:55
I have now given up and feel i should worn others Only decision still to make for me is wether to bother with legal action or not.
On the other hand even if i dont take legal action, will the company then take me to court for liable???

I'd be more worried about the spelling police myself :D

Bob
10-07-06, 23:32
And all's well that ends well. The club is safe, and most people will have forgotten this little episode when the trader renewal comes around.

ivan
10-07-06, 23:59
And all's well that ends well. The club is safe, and most people will have forgotten this little episode when the trader renewal comes around.
I won't.

Homer
11-07-06, 00:11
Mawby, you've done a great job handling this matter in such a professional manner. Hats off to you guy :)

Can't make much comment towards Thor, I've purchased a few of their products before and none of the recent threads in the last few years will stop me buying from them in future. I would never have used their services (to far away) so the threads have no impact on whether I would use them in future.

However, due to their actions I think their trader membership here should be revoked.

Terminator
11-07-06, 01:08
If I have a problem with the service someone has offered me. I go directly to them, speak to them. If that does not get me any where, I will wirte a letter explaining my grievance. If that do not produce the desired effect, I wire another letter explaining that if the matter is not resolved, I will have no option that to resport to legal proceedings. If that does not work I go to a solicitor. This may be time consuming but is likely to yeild a satisfactory result.

At no point would I consider venting off on a public forum about it, as it is between me and the service provider and my case is unique.

The majority of members will not know that Pete was a significant contributor to the forum for many years. I believe his business involves working a vast range of performance vehicles not just MKIV's, I am not surprised he does not have much time for forums these days.

Todd
11-07-06, 01:15
At no point would I consider venting off on a public forum about it, as it is between me and the service provider and my case is unique.

I agree with what you have posted but out of curiousity, if the service provider was a trader on here and you did take them through the whole legal route, would you at the end of it all inform the members of the forum?

Terminator
11-07-06, 01:29
As I stated the hypothetical situation would be specific to the particular contract I had with the provider. This would be very situaton specific, but I doubt I would go public on a forum due to what usually kicks off. Howver at trader renewal, I could leave a comment. Such as "Had to legal action against XXXX to achive satisfactory service. This would leave readers and mods to draw their own conclusion. The mods would know what I had written so could contact me for more details.

Looks like the issues with this particular situation have been resolved time to move on.

Todd
11-07-06, 01:36
That's using the tools that the forum provides and in a perfect world I think you are totally correct.

However say there are 10 months to go until this hypothetical companies renewal comes up, could you in all good conscious not share the information with the rest of the club members?

But then itís all hypothetical, itís way past my bedtime and tomorrow there will be a much more exciting thread about something else :d

hob
11-07-06, 01:47
how long does libel last? I mean I cant remember what I said 4 days ago let alone 4 years :(

Homer
11-07-06, 02:22
Mawby, you've done a great job handling this matter in such a professional manner. Hats off to you guy :)

Can't make much comment towards Thor, I've purchased a few of their products before and none of the recent threads in the last few years will stop me buying from them in future. I would never have used their services (to far away) so the threads have no impact on whether I would use them in future.

However, due to their actions I think their trader membership here should be revoked.

After thinking about this further - ban the c*nts

How dare they issue legal proceedings against the club they themselves are members of. If they wished to participate in the scene they should respond to messages and in the very least justify their actions (or lack of them) to members.

They appear to have no problem posting in Dictator Martins supra club (aka tumbleweed forum), but seem to be afaid to post here in the Supra owners club.

Anyone know if Thor or Martin F's dictatorship will be at JAE ?

Scoboblio
11-07-06, 02:27
How dare they issue legal proceedings against the club they themselves are members of. If they wished to participate in the scene they should respond to messages and in the very least justify their actions (or lack of them) to members.

:amen:

Shows a total lack of respect for the members that have provided them with so much custom (for very little recent club input).

UltraFlynn
11-07-06, 03:55
Anyone know if Thor or Martin F's dictatorship will be at JAE ?

They'll both be there at JAE. Go put a face to a name. Maybe chat to them. Possibly hear another side to the story.

Homer
11-07-06, 04:21
They'll both be there at JAE. Go put a face to a name. Maybe chat to them. Possibly hear another side to the story.

Lol, you're joking right?

I did type a full reply but think I'll leave it at this...

UltraFlynn
11-07-06, 04:31
There might be a little tongue in cheek there. :)

Homer
11-07-06, 04:50
There might be a little tongue in cheek there. :)

Well, Thor I want to speak to for tech reasons (nothing to do with any forum posts).

I tried to talk to Martin F once before but he just wasn't interested and in fact was damn rude, seemed like a right c*nt... got no interest in speaking to him again.

geoffvalenti
11-07-06, 05:30
I've got to post, I know it will do no good, but I can't bite my (keyboard) tongue ;) anymore.

From what I see of the situation with the previously mentioned trader, and this has got to be said bearing in mind I don't know all the facts, is that the postings on the forum occurred after the trader continually failed to answer emails from the complainants, both the ones in this country and the ones in the USA.

Ignoring PITA customers is not a sensible thing to do in any situation. Ignoring them when they've got direct access to lots of your potential customers, and can put their case, rightly or wrongly, to those customers, in the best light to obtain sympathy, is professional suicide.

Green Peace
11-07-06, 07:51
I've got to post, I know it will do no good, but I can't bite my (keyboard) tongue ;) anymore.

From what I see of the situation with the previously mentioned trader, and this has got to be said bearing in mind I don't know all the facts, is that the postings on the forum occurred after the trader continually failed to answer emails from the complainants, both the ones in this country and the ones in the USA.

Ignoring PITA customers is not a sensible thing to do in any situation. Ignoring them when they've got direct access to lots of your potential customers, and can put their case, rightly or wrongly, to those customers, in the best light to obtain sympathy, is professional suicide.

Yep totally agree with that and Paul E's comment about 'PR'

Let him try sue us, Ill quite happily put a few quid in for legal costs as im sure others would too...

I dont know Pete Betts or what kind of person he is, I do remember seeing his name on the original Supra site in the 90's think he had a mk3 then, never had dealings with Thor....

I think we deserve an apology from him as a club if he is to continue trading on here..and documented evidence that our fellow Supra owners stateside reach an agreement...then we can all move on ...untill the next time lol.

JohnA
11-07-06, 09:52
"think twice, speak once" is an old saying.
Mentioning legal actions, heated comments and making threats is a sure way to alienate people -and make enemies even- where you had none.

I hope this sad incident blows out, irrespective of the truth behind the issue (which has been forgotten by all sides in the process)

sooper-supra
11-07-06, 21:35
:whistle: soo.. i havnt dealt with thor personally however i was talking to a member the other day who has really been let down by them :(

keron
11-07-06, 22:33
:whistle: soo.. i havnt dealt with thor personally however i was talking to a member the other day who has really been let down by them :(


me too...overcharged and crap work!

TLicense
11-07-06, 22:37
At the end of the day I think it's down to Pete/Thor.
They fu*ked up.
If they concentrated on their PR more, and perhaps sorted out issues as they were arising, then the people who felt agrieved wouldn't have posted in the first place.
So in my eyes they fu*ked up twice. The original fu*k up, and then the fu*k up on the PR front.
To then threaten the club with legal proceedings is in my opinion yet another fuck up. Knowing that it was their fault to start with, if it were me, I would have been bending over backwards to sort issues out once it was raised on the board.
What would have cost him more? The money's he's now going to lose down to the fact that most of us won't touch him with a bargepole, or the cost of maybe turning around and saying "yes it was our fuck-up, sorry we've not sorted it previously and we've not replied to your messages. To resolve the issue we would like to supply the correct items and give the customers involved a full refund". Even if he made a loss on the particular items he was supplying at the time, he'd go a long way towards mending some bridges.
That's how I'd run my business. Look at the long term. Pity Pete doesn't think like this, as he's someone who's technical input is very much appreciated and an asset to the club.

Pity. <shakes head>

stupra
12-07-06, 00:31
I've never had any dealings with Thor, but after all of this, an the way they treat their paying customers, I wont be in the future either.

bondango
12-07-06, 01:00
After reading 10 pages of this, I think Nod should be running Thor and not Pete - PR can make or break your business, think theres a lot of broken Thor bits lying around this community now, and isnt it amazing when companies realise what they have done they jump in with the solicitor threats :clap:

michael
12-07-06, 01:05
After reading 10 pages of this, I think Nod should be running Thor and not Pete - PR can make or break your business, think theres a lot of broken Thor bits lying around this community now, and isnt it amazing when companies realise what they have done they jump in with the solicitor threats :clap:

From my experience with Nod's PR I suspect that might not be the way ahead :)

bondango
12-07-06, 01:09
Dunno, on a personal level i've delt with him for years and he's always went out of his way for me. But lets face it, anyone's better than Pete LMAO

Marty

Tom S
12-07-06, 08:28
11 pages of opinions, some good some bad.

Well done Lee in resolving a difficult subject.

I'm a events Mod so not allowed an opiinion.

mawby
12-07-06, 09:42
I'm a events Mod so not allowed an opiinion.Tom please don't start this agian. You are entitled to an opinion and I've never said once that you're not.... but you also have to let others have theirs without getting stroppy if they don't agree with yours, and that is something you don't seem to handle too well.

Rob Davey
12-07-06, 10:49
:spank: :d

andrew7
12-07-06, 11:44
Tom please don't start this agian. You are entitled to an opinion and I've never said once that you're not.... but you also have to let others have theirs without getting stroppy if they don't agree with yours, and that is something you don't seem to handle too well.
,,:duel: :whip: :boxing: :swear: :friday: :kiss:

Thorin
12-07-06, 12:42
Can I have an opinion? I'm confused :innocent:

Gamer
12-07-06, 12:44
Can I have an opinion? I'm confused :innocent:


You can but no one will care because your name is not in red or green... :d

Lewis
12-07-06, 12:46
You can but no one will care because your name is not in red or green... :d

LMFAO!

Although, I think it is the other way around.

I know (rightly so) noone listens to me - that is a VERY good thing for all concerned lol

Mad Matt
12-07-06, 12:46
You can but no one will care because your name is not in red or green... :d

Fnar fnar!

Alex
12-07-06, 12:50
You've chosen to ignore this user's posts.


:innocent:

Lewis
12-07-06, 13:02
:innocent:

lmao - you arse! :p

Alex
12-07-06, 13:21
lmao - you arse! :p

/takes bow

;)

Rays the roof
12-07-06, 13:34
No need to remind everyone of my tale of woe with Thor! Regarding feedback, they ignored all my calls PM's and couldn't even look me in the face at JAE last year....

Everything I said at the time was true and factual. No emotional slander...

For ever bad experience a customer has they tell on average 9 other people...

So I doubt there will be many members in our club that haven't heard what Thor are like..:Pling:

osso
12-07-06, 14:12
My experience with these guys wasnt particularly good either, went to Thor over 2 years ago, after having my blown turbo replaced, wanted to see how the car was performing.

I was a new to the supra scene at the time and I knew the supra wasnt running 100%, and thought a dyno plot would help diagnoise the problem. The dyno plot did confirm there was an issue, and thor tried to investigate what was going on. unfortunately thor couldnt offer any useful advice as they didnt have a clue what was going on, other than to claim it was running rich, but then most japanese cars run very rich from the factory anyway.

I left feeling more confused than i did when i arrived... However they were more than happy to take my money for 2 hours labour. I cant remember how much it was now, but we are only talking around £80 or £120 quid, but i was feeling ripped off at the time.

supRo
12-07-06, 14:33
Is it not possible to have a clause to state that you cannot pursue any legal actions against our club based on postings/threads? This becomes affective as soon as anyone uses this site?

Or maybe if you become a member you have to agree to this? Then any complaints with traders is posted in members only section?

Ro

wez_p
12-07-06, 14:49
maybe we should all have disclaimers?

tbourner
12-07-06, 15:05
Mine's only there to stop me getting into trouble (again!).

michael
12-07-06, 15:07
Any legal issues will need to be brought to the attention of my tapeworm

Bijal
12-07-06, 16:02
Disclaimer
All opinions are my own. All content is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. Use recommendations at your own risk.
Posts may contain information that is confidential, privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour or irrational religious beliefs. Any dissemination, distribution or copying of this post is not authorised (either explicitly or implicitly) and constitutes an irritating social faux pas. Unless the word absquatulation has been used in its correct context somewhere other than in this warning, it does not have any legal or grammatical use and may be ignored. No animals were harmed in the preparation of this post. Those of you with an overwhelming fear of the unknown will be gratified to learn that there is no hidden message revealed by reading this warning backwards, however, by pouring a complete circle of salt around yourself and your computer you can ensure that no harm befalls you and your pets. If you have read this post in error, please add some nutmeg and egg whites and place it in a warm oven for 40 minutes. Whisk briefly and let it stand for 2 hours before icing.

:respekt: :rlol: :rlol: :rlol:

i think that disclaimer would suit me best :d

MARTIN R
12-07-06, 16:58
No need to remind everyone of my tale of woe with Thor! Regarding feedback, they ignored all my calls PM's and couldn't even look me in the face at JAE last year....

Everything I said at the time was true and factual. No emotional slander...

For ever bad experience a customer has they tell on average 9 other people...

So I doubt there will be many members in our club that haven't heard what Thor are like..:Pling:

Could not agree more, in the end service levels / lack of it in any business will determine if they are a success or not;)

Tom S
12-07-06, 18:08
Okay, re worded.

Don't have an opinion!! ok Lee ?? :innocent:

mawby
12-07-06, 18:42
Don't have an opinion!! ok Lee ?? :innocent:That's much better.... although now I want to know why you don't have an opinion! :p

Tom S
12-07-06, 18:43
That's much better.... although now I want to know why you don't have an opinion! :p

Never used Thor, after Ray's the roofs problems

Rays the roof
12-07-06, 20:45
Never used Thor, after Ray's the roofs problems


Thanks Tom! My £1,200 has cost them ten times that at least:tongue: !

Would rather have not had to complain, but that was their choice...

Gazboy
12-07-06, 21:43
Is it not possible to have a clause to state that you cannot pursue any legal actions against our club based on postings/threads? This becomes affective as soon as anyone uses this site?

Or maybe if you become a member you have to agree to this? Then any complaints with traders is posted in members only section?

Ro


You're kidding, aren't you? Freedom of speech isn't to be taken literally, there are some things you simply cannot say- you can't shout "Fire!" in a packed cinema for example. If you accuse someone of something, you must be prepared to back it up, if not you can succesfuly be sued for deformation of character/lible/slander. In some cases it can be a criminal offence, especialy if you are accusing that person of a crime.

Ian R
13-07-06, 11:28
Could you not put a disclaimer when new traders sign up in terms and conditions which would exclude the forum from legal action ???

outatime
13-07-06, 11:30
Disclaimers aren't generally worth the paper they are written on. The law is the law.

Chipmunk
13-07-06, 13:54
Whatever happened to Mr Dog? Anyone know what he's doing now? [/ChangeSubject]

Probably a Haribo salesman
:d

michael
13-07-06, 19:36
Time to split this off into a new thread perhaps?

Branners
13-07-06, 20:15
or just close this one so it stops the arguement?

JB

Muffleman
13-07-06, 20:21
Good idea, no value to this thread anymore.

osso
13-07-06, 20:51
Good idea, no value to this thread anymore.

You arse licker! :D

Muffleman
13-07-06, 21:28
You arse licker! :D

:tongue: :D

Nah, I just think this is going nowhere now, I would imagine that by now most of us have made our minds up about Thor ;)

JamieP
13-07-06, 21:30
:tongue: :D

Nah, I just think this is going nowhere now, I would imagine that by now most of us have made our minds up about Thor ;)
buisness must still be ok... i tried calling there a few times today to book in for a power run and they were engaged all day:search:

Muffleman
13-07-06, 21:40
Busy ? or hiding :innocent:

RobSheffield
14-07-06, 06:39
or just close this one so it stops the arguement?

JB

Perhaps if you just snip it in the bud :)

michael
14-07-06, 09:37
Perhaps if you just snip it in the bud :)

Ah great days :cool:

sleeky
14-07-06, 11:47
I think certain traders have got a bug up their behinds:rolleyes:

Just get over it, you did a bad job - expect a flaming - simple.

Hell when i had my supra wrecked by some spotty freaks from Baisingstoke (yeah you know who you are mo fo's) i ripped into them good an proper and to this day i still tell other supra owners about my experience with them.

Its just part and parcel with any service from anywhere, automotive or not.

just my 2c, i think going to court over what is said on a public internet forum is taking it a tad too far...

Pete
14-07-06, 12:10
Can't believe all this crap in the thread.

Personally my only concern was that the club is not under legal threat.

If Thor has obviously had such bad feedback (which is founded) then should they really be a club supplier? Maybe we need a three/four/five strikes you're out system? Or severity scale. (Engine blown = 10 (most dire), refused to replace a damaged indicator in postage = 1)
Lots of red tape and nonsense, but maybe the only way for traders and club members to resolve such debates?

MARTIN R
14-07-06, 12:12
Can't believe all this crap in the thread.

Personally my only concern was that the club is not under legal threat.

If Thor has obviously had such bad feedback (which is founded) then should they really be a club supplier? Maybe we need a three/four/five strikes you're out system? Or severity scale. (Engine blown = 10 (most dire), refused to replace a damaged indicator in postage = 1)
Lots of red tape and nonsense, but maybe the only way for traders and club members to resolve such debates?

Fair point, but effectively we can remove traders by simply not using them

Todd
14-07-06, 12:15
Fair point, but effectively we can remove traders by simply not using them

That's fine if you know about threads like this but if you are a newbie and see the company banner flying at the top of the homepage, well it's akin to a club thumbs up to using the company.

mawby
14-07-06, 12:24
Maybe we need a three/four/five strikes you're out system? Or severity scale. (Engine blown = 10 (most dire), refused to replace a damaged indicator in postage = 1)
Lots of red tape and nonsense, but maybe the only way for traders and club members to resolve such debates?That would be possible using the Infraction System (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=873113&postcount=10) the forum upgrade will provide, but the problem is always being able to prove stuff. We have seen many times on here that one persons version of the facts is not always a very accurate version. How does the club decide who is right and who is wrong?

Pete
14-07-06, 12:31
That would be possible using the Infraction System (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=873113&postcount=10) the forum upgrade will provide, but the problem is always being able to prove stuff. We have seen many times on here that one persons version of the facts is not always a very accurate version. How does the club decide who is right and who is wrong?
I'm not sure the club should to avoid claims of bias.
Problem with automated systems is they can be abused.

I think it needs to be a case of consumer X makes a complaint to the club about supplier Y.

A standard email goes out to Supplier Y like "A complaint has been made about your services to the club. As you are an official recommended supplier it is our responsibility to investigate. Attached are the claims, please reply with your version of events. Beware that any comments made may be made available to club members to help them base their purchasing decisions in the future"
The official complaint and response could be shown somewhere that people can't comment in. Clean, no ambiguity, no personal opinions thrown about - Just the 'facts' from both parties.
Should a supplier have numerous such records or high severity then they're reviewed as an official supplier?

I wouldn't mind taking on this role without any prejudice. Club Mediator or something? I do this kind of thing quite well at work with personel issues.
Presentation of the facts as they I find them with no bias or personal opinion.
The only person I wouldn't be able to mediate due to potential claimed bias is Chris Wilson due to friendship.


Mind you - I probably wouldn't make many friends this way :rlol:

Jspec Germany
14-07-06, 12:34
The aviation evaluation world uses a point system. Manufacturers start off with 30 points and receive points for positive feedback and lose points for negative feedback. If their points drop below 15, they're done. If they rise above 80, they receive bonuses.

Ark
14-07-06, 13:41
That would be possible using the Infraction System (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=873113&postcount=10) the forum upgrade will provide, but the problem is always being able to prove stuff. We have seen many times on here that one persons version of the facts is not always a very accurate version. How does the club decide who is right and who is wrong?

Sounds like another rating system people won't use. The itrader thingy should be sufficient, but people will not leave bad feedback for fear of retribution.

mawby
14-07-06, 14:05
The infraction system would be available to mods only, but it would hopefully allow people to problems being addressed over time.

Although Pete's suggestion doesn't sound too bad.

pump gas pete
14-07-06, 17:54
I am all in favour of Pete's idea. An excellent suggestion.

Peter

MARTIN R
14-07-06, 20:43
I am all in favour of Pete's idea. An excellent suggestion.

Peter

Pete's idea is well worth consideration:)

hob
14-07-06, 20:47
I love Pete

Pete
15-07-06, 00:23
I love Pete
I love you too dude.

Nic
15-07-06, 08:17
Big thumbs up to Pete's idea from me, I believe he would be very good in the role, he is one of the most upstanding and respected members and a real asset to the club.

:thumbs: