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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

When turbos fail - a different discussion


Scoboblio
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I've been here a while and seen the usual hybrid's vs singles debate being slugged out time and time again as solutions for when the original turbos give out.

 

As far as I'm concerned the "feel" of driving the car is just as important as it's out and out power for improving the enjoyment. Things like the TRD LSD etc apparantly make a big difference to the way the car handles.

 

Soooooo..... imagine you're in my shoes (J-spec auto, standard suspension, basic LSD etc). I use the car nearly every day, for a combination of traffic light grand prix ;) A and B road thrashing, with the occasional long distance motorway drive thrown in.

 

Given a limited budget, would you personally;

 

A> Go for a budget single turbo + fuelling kit for extra straight line speed and leave the rest as it is.

 

B> Get some replacement stock twins / hybrids on the cheap, and spend the rest of your money on a TRD LSD, higher stall TC for the traffic light GP, billstein shocks for the handling, and a few other bits and bobs.

 

I suppose what I'm asking is, while single turbo kits may be the best cost effective way of improving the power of your car, are they the cheapest way of putting a bigger smile on your face? :)

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Personally I would go for a set of replacement stock J-spec turbos, I would only go single if I had a big enough budget to do it properly, ie fueling, ecu and other ancillary parts (IC, brakes, exhaust, etc.)

 

I would rather spend the money first getting the car to handle well ie. brakes, suspension, LSD, etc. No point having huge power if the car handles like a roller skate.

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I agree with both of you ;) But playing devil's advocate, I love accelerating and straight line speed.... the Supra's hardly a shabby handler in the first place and the majority of times on the road you'll be using the power in a straight line.... the more I think about it the more difficult it gets... insane single turbo speed + noise, or much improved handling / launches?

 

And I think that by the time you've gone to the expense of replacing all the bits I listed above, there wouldn't be much price difference between the 2, especially if you were already BPU with UK brakes, good IC etc....

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the Supra's hardly a shabby handler in the first place

 

The Supra is also hardly a slouch in the first place too :) A bpu Supra will beat most other cars on the road, the same cannot be said for the stock handling. Although properly set up the Supra is a very capable road/track car.

 

I guess it depends what is more important to you and what type of driving you do/enjoy. To me personally there is little point having a lot more power on the roads I drive on in HK, yes it would be nice, but a well set up road car is a bigger priority to me.

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FWIW in my experience I've always found that whenever you modify a car theres a trade off.

 

Sometimes its fuel consumption, sometimes comfort, sometimes driveability or worse, reliability.

 

It all really depends on what you want out of the car and the type of journeys you do.

 

We all see members on here with single conversions and impressive dyno charts. I often feel that I'd like to go the same route, but more often than not, those same members don't use their car as a daily driver, in heavy traffic, whatever the weather.

 

To me, my Supra is my everyday car. A fast great looking car that I can take anywhere and arrive in a happy relaxed state of mind. Not many things beat me at the traffic lights grand prix (if I can be arsed to race them :D) and if they do, its usually because they cost thousands of pounds more than the Supra.

 

Driving a car which doesn't really like traffic, or is sluggish (in a relative sense) until it reaches 4000 rpm when all hell breaks loose is not really the type of vehicle for 24/7/365 use.

 

The best money, so far, that I've spent on my Supra is Bilstein shocks. They revolutionised the handling and made it a far nicer car to drive.

 

My take on the Hybrids vs stock turbos is that with an auto car the stock turbo setup is laggy enough without fitting turbos that really aren't much better than stock, just laggier.

 

If I had to go with a single, I'd sacrifice bhp for quick spooling, and go for the smallest single that reliably gave around 350-400bhp.

 

Finally, modding is a slippery slope. (been there, done that and got a drawer full of T shirts ;)) After a while, that new single just isn't going to be quick enough :)

 

The most cost effective way of getting a faster car, is to buy a car that was faster from the factory.

 

Hope that answered most of your questions :D

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This thread may be relevant?

 

What I'm really after is people's opinions on this;

 

I suppose what I'm asking is, while single turbo kits may be the best cost effective way of improving the power of your car, are they the cheapest way of putting a bigger smile on your face?

 

There's no right or wrong answer to this and I'm not planning on doing either (not until my stockers give out anyway), just starting a discussion for straight line speed + power vs other options.

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What I'm really after is people's opinions on this;

 

I suppose what I'm asking is, while single turbo kits may be the best cost effective way of improving the power of your car, are they the cheapest way of putting a bigger smile on your face?

 

There's no right or wrong answer to this and I'm not planning on doing either (not until my stockers give out anyway), just starting a discussion for straight line speed + power vs other options.

 

I think what you are talking about is going to come down to personal preference, so everyone will have a different opinion. At the end of the day, it is your car - what do you want out of it?

 

A properly sorted single would give you a very potent car, but I have doubts as to how many properly sorted singles there are on here. Too many vested interests and unwillingness to admit that there are niggles or worse.

 

I think I will look at optimising the stock turbos as per the thread I mentioned, and put the emphasis on improving the chassis of the car. In a couple of years when there is more experience of singles, I may go that route.

 

It is all very well chasing high numbers, but power is nothing without application. The fact you have an auto box would put me off going single.

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I think what you are talking about is going to come down to personal preference, so everyone will have a different opinion.

 

Indeed.... that's the point of the thread. I don't want anything more out of the car like I said above because I'm not planning on doing either.

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Indeed.... that's the point of the thread. I don't want anything more out of the car like I said above because I'm not planning on doing either.

 

You are a lucky man, not wanting anything more out of your Supra :D

 

I can see your point, and that is what I was referring to above - IMO some people give too much credence to chasing high numbers over what mods would actually be best for them and their driving style.

 

:)

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I think what you are talking about is going to come down to personal preference, so everyone will have a different opinion. At the end of the day, it is your car - what do you want out of it?

 

A properly sorted single would give you a very potent car, but I have doubts as to how many properly sorted singles there are on here. Too many vested interests and unwillingness to admit that there are niggles or worse.

 

I think I will look at optimising the stock turbos as per the thread I mentioned, and put the emphasis on improving the chassis of the car. In a couple of years when there is more experience of singles, I may go that route.

 

It is all very well chasing high numbers, but power is nothing without application. The fact you have an auto box would put me off going single.

 

Some nice balanced comments here and from Geoff -

 

I personaly hate the stock Supra suspension set-up - this and RLTC are primary IMHO to get the most out of the stock car...

 

Loads of other stuff to do before going single... and then only with objectivity and eyes wide open (and wallet!)

 

Daily Driver / Auto and Single are often not happy bed fellows

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well I'd do B before A without a doubt.

 

Can't imagine big bhp singles are much fun with tired old stock suspension, no decent TC and so on.

 

I'd get the car up to BPU (if not already) as this is good bhp for little outlay.

 

I'd also get the suspension and brakes fully sorted and strongly consider rltc too.

 

at this stage now you have a very quick all round car (garanteed to put a smile on your face) and an excellent platform to consider more bhp with a single should you feel you need it.

 

doing it the other way around, you will end up with big bhp in a car where the rest of it isn't up to scratch = a one trick pony and this is probably fustrating and dangerous.

 

I'm so impressed with bpu when it's running right that I'm trying to make sure everything else has caught up before considering more. Whats the point of having an inbalance that lets the car down, bhp is but one part of the overall cars performance

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Thanks for the opinions guys, but bear in mind that I mentioned when the stock turbos fail..... so one way or another you'll have to spend money to replace them ;)

 

fair point. I guess in which case I'd stand by what I said but I'd ask myself:

 

am I quite sure I will be going single in the future anyway - if so then there is a good argument not to spend money twice.

 

however even if this is the case, if the rest of the car is completely stock, I would still think twice.

 

Singles take a lot of money time and effort to get right, so in the mean time your car with everything else not up to scratch will probably give you less enjoyment not more!

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If it was me, i would replace the stock turbos with some more stockers go BPU, if not already done so. Then I would concentrate my money on the suspension, brakes and LSD.

If the budget allowed i would replace the front and rear control arms with new stock parts then get some bilstein suspension and have the alignment set up properly

This will give the best compromise of reliability / practicality and fun in my opinion.

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When I was at Brunters on Sunday I was already thinking about what to do next if I blow up the twins as I was hooning along the runway. In my head I had already ordered a pair of Turbo-technics hybrids. Although at the moment I'm concerned about a relative lack of top end power (ie, I should have some but it's gone walkabouts).

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Strange... not one recommendation for going single and leaving everything else alone, but from memory that seems to be the most popular choice :D

 

To be honest my head says that I'd go with the replacement stockers and LSD, suspension route.... but I'd probably just buy a blooming big shiney turbo instead :D

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if you are planning on going single then you should defo upgrade the suspension imo, the brakes and defo the diff, if you have an open diff then you will find it makes the driving the car a bitch, i had an open diff, so i upgraded to a |TRD diff and WOW what a difference, i have no traction cntrll as i had the stock one deleted and have found that the diff gave me so much more confidence in the car esp after having the single fitted, yes the back does loose traction a little but is so much more controllable... one of the best mods i had fitted

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Ian if you want to drive mine to get an idea of the difference the Bilsteins make you're welcome to matey :)

 

Thanks mate :)

 

Just to reiterate this thread was supposed to offer a dilemma between flat out straight-line speed and more advanced handling etc, if you were forced to make a choice because your stock turbos died - it's not a plea from me to help make my mind up, it's about what YOU would do.

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