View Full Version : The Single Turbo Shopping List
Ok, this has been asked about a few times now so here goes for what will hopefully end up as an FAQ entry.
There is no hard and fast rule to convert a Supra to a single turbo, and it is also difficult to put a boundary around it. Some would say, for example, that you need bigger brakes because you'll be going faster - but is that essential? I'd say no. Advisable, maybe, but not essential, your car will run, boost, accelerate, and dyno without bigger brakes. So although it could be a train wreck :D please contribute what you think is essential to a single turbo conversion. I'll draw a boundary now by giving some headings. Anything in these heading areas can be left stock or changed depending on people's opinions. Add any other bits that fit logically, I'm not hubristic enough to think I've covered everything, but don't start wandering too far off track or trying to sell shit. And remember essential - if the engine will run and stay running without it, it's not essential in this context.
Edit - a quick clarification to say this is the minimum spec you would be happy with on your own car. It is most definitely not the place for your "ideal" Supra spec list, or a maximum attack drag racer.
So quote this and fill in the areas with either "stock" or what you would put in.
Intake side
Intake filter, piping, hoses, clamps, intercooler
Intake manifold
Breather system
Idle control
BOV
Engine
Crank, rods, pistons, rings, bolts, bearings
Block
Cams
Cylinder head
Ingition system - spark plugs, ignition amplifiers, coil packs
Oil system - pump, cooler, filter (NOT the type of oil for the love of god)
Drivetrain
Clutch
Autobox
Exhaust side
Downpipe, centre section, back box
Turbo itself
Manifold
Wastegate
Oil feeds
Coolant feeds
Fuel system
Tank, pump(s), wiring, hoses
Fuel rail
Injectors + resistor pack
Fuel pressure regulator
Fuel pulsation dampener
Electronics
ECU/fuel controller
Ignition timing control
Things not on the list but you wouldn't go near a single turbo engine if it didn't have them
Gauges
Boost controller
Knock monitors
Other
-Ian
Dragonball
08-06-06, 10:57
[quote=Ian C]. Some would say, for example, that you need bigger brakes because you'll be going faster - but is that essential? I'd say no. Unadvisable, maybe, but not essential, your car will run, boost, accelerate, and dyno without bigger brakes.
Ian - typo - you need to change to adviseable
OK this are what I would consider as a minimum
Intake side
Intake filter ( K&N or AEM), piping, hoses, clamps, intercooler - Blitz LM, (dont buy cheap!)
Intake manifold - To suit selected Turbo
Breather system ( will work with Filter on Ex cam cover)
Idle control - suitable for ECU selection
Engine
Crank, rods, pistons, rings, bolts, bearings ( tock if in good condition)
Block ( Stock)
Oil system - pump, cooler, filter (NOT the type of oil for the love of god)Stock
Drivetrain
Clutch - stock to say 500
Autobox - as above
Exhaust side
Downpipe, centre section, back box - all BL but clearly others can be inserted
Turbo itself - T61 P trim
Manifold - Good Tubular, DO NOT BUY CHEAP
Wastegate - HKS, TurboSmart or Tial, DO NOT BUY CHEAP
Oil feeds/return, BL Kit
Coolant feeds
BOV - HKS SSQV or HKS Racing for larger output motors
Fuel system
Tank, pump(s), wiring, hoses - Single Walbro as minimum
Fuel rail Stock
Injectors + resistor pack 650cc Drop in
Fuel pressure regulator ( stock OK to a point)
Fuel pulsation dampener ( remove)
Electronics
ECU/fuel controller - E-Manage Blue or Ultimate, must be tuned by Ian C
Ignition timing control - as above
Things not on the list but you wouldn't go near a single turbo engine if it didn't have them
Gauges - Oil Pressure/Temp. Boost. AFR
Boost controller - Blitz DSBC range
Knock monitors ( not all aftermarket ECU can do this.)
LSD - you are wasting the power without it
Other
Experience: owned a few, built a few, specced a few.
So I would say:
Intake side
Intake filter, piping, hoses, clamps, intercooler
An intake pod filter of some sort will be needed, probably supplied in the kit along with all the other bits you need
A nice 3 row intercooler like a Greddy or Blitz one with all the hard pipes and any relocation gear needed.
Intake manifold - Stock
Breather system - Fully closed
Idle control - Stock
BOV - Yes, no brand specific recommendations though (I like the HKS ones)
Engine
Crank, rods, pistons, rings, bolts, bearings - stock
Cams - stock
Block - stock
Ignition system - NGK BCP7ES plugs, and refresh all the coil packs if there is any hard to diagnose misfiring
Cylinder head - stock
Oil system - pump, cooler, filter (NOT the type of oil for the love of god) - stock
Drivetrain
Clutch - RPS Street Max
Autobox - stock (I think, I'm no expert on the autobox)
Exhaust side
Downpipe, centre section, back box - supplied with the kit and would mate up to pretty much any back box
Turbo itself - T61, any smaller is a bit futile, any bigger and you might need more fuelling system expense
Manifold - BL tubular seems good so far, none have cracked that I've heard of (for what that's worth)
Wastegate - a decent one - if it's too small or goes wrong then you could overboost, which is bad.
Oil feeds - kit supplied
Coolant feeds - Only necessary if the turbo has a water jacket
Fuel system
Tank, pump(s), wiring, hoses - One Walbro pump, the rest can be stock
Fuel rail - Stock will suffice with drop in 650's
Injectors + resistor pack - 650's with no resistor pack needed
Fuel pressure regulator - Stock
Fuel pulsation dampener - Leave it in
Electronics
ECU/fuel controller - E-Manage/FCon
Ignition timing control - E-Manage/FCon
Things not on the list but you wouldn't go near a single turbo engine if it didn't have them
Gauges - AFR, EGT
Boost controller - Yes but no specific brand recommeneded
Knock monitors - nope
Other
:)
-Ian
. Some would say, for example, that you need bigger brakes because you'll be going faster - but is that essential? I'd say no. Unadvisable, maybe, but not essential, your car will run, boost, accelerate, and dyno without bigger brakes.
Ian - typo - you need to change to adviseable
Done thanks, christ did that read wrong :D Well spotted. I meant unadvisable to run it without upgrading j-spec brakes but it came out wrong.
-Ian
OK gotcha, just don't think this should turn into another spurious advertising thread, especially in tech.
michel lane
08-06-06, 11:09
he is my setup: running 650-700hp. @ 1.5bar - 120000 miles on the clock UK car
min spec for single: ***** / UPPERCASE - MY MIN SUGGESTIONS
Intake side
Intake filter, piping, hoses, clamps, intercooler -k&n , stock hoses / -****STOCK****
Intake manifold - greddy manifold -****STOCK****
Breather system - re-circulated into turbo intake feed -****STOCK****
Idle control - stock -****STOCK****
Engine
Crank, rods, pistons, rings, bolts, bearings - stock -****STOCK****
cams- hks 264 in/ex -****STOCK****
head gasket- stock -****STOCK****
Block -stock -****STOCK****
Oil system - greddy 16row oil re-location kit -OIL COOLER
pump, cooler, filter - stock -****STOCK****
radiator - koyo after market -****STOCK****
fans - dual electric -****STOCK****
Drivetrain
Clutch -rps carbon/ carbon -RPS 6 PUCK
gear shift - B&H quick shift -****STOCK****
brakes
UK spec calipers / hawk brake pads / brembo disk -UK BRAKES
Exhaust side
Downpipe, centre section, back box - 4 inch all the way -3 INCH
Turbo - sp71gts -SP58 / GT35
Manifold -sp manifold -EBAY MAINIFOLD
Wastegate -hks 60mm -HKS / GREDDY
Oil feeds - boost logic kit -BOOST LOGIC
Coolant feeds -stock -****STOCK****
bov - greddy -GREDDY /HKS
Fuel system
Tank, pump(s), wiring, hoses -twin walbro / 30 amp relay /-6n hoses -****STOCK****
Fuel rail - hks -****STOCK****
Injectors -1000cc delphi -550CC
resistor pack -stock -****STOCK****
Fuel pressure regulator - aeromotive -****STOCK****
Electronics
ECU/fuel controller - aem -SAFC 2
ignition amplifier - hks dli -****STOCK****
o2 sensor - aem wideband -AEM WIDEBAND
laptop
Gauges - boost / oil pressure /fuel pressure /etg / wideband -ETG/WIDEBAND
Boost controller- bliz dual boost solinode -GREDDY/ BLITZ
Knock monitors- stock / controlled via aem -****STOCK****
installed and setup my me . MIN SETUP I SUGGEST
I populated one to give an idea of what's required and added a clarification to my first post, saying it's the minimum spec you would be happy with on your own car. I think that's fair.
Feel free to recommend products, just don't try and sell them :devil: Like I recommended a BL tubular manifold as I haven't heard of one cracking yet and it's what I've got experience of. I know a T61 sized turbo can be run on 650's. I know they can drop into the stock fuel system and run at decent boost levels, thus saving £££'s on fuelling components. You get the idea.
Oh, I'm also editing my list and the template as people mention stuff I've missed - cams, BOV, cylinder head etc :) Cheers guys :thumbs:
-Ian
So, Terry, Michel, can you edit yours to show the minimum spec you'd have on your car and be happy with? Not what you have got already (sorry I didn't make that clear to start with) Ta :)
-Ian
so is the list restricted to those who have actually built a Single or open to everyone's Interpretation/regurgitation. If the later it would be useful if they could state the experience building singles, like Michel has, stating its his car.
So, Terry, Michel, can you edit yours to show the minimum spec you'd have on your car and be happy with? Not what you have got already (sorry I didn't make that clear to start with) Ta :)
-Ian
Done
Good call.
What about those in the midst of it like Tony. No experience yet, but he's elbows deep!!
Good call.
What about those in the midst of it like Tony. No experience yet, but he's elbows deep!!
Then his input is invaluable, we have probably forgotten stuff. Tony can state mid build or something.
so is the list restricted to those who have actually built a Single or open to everyone's Interpretation/regurgitation. If the later it would be useful if they could state the experience building singles, like Michel has, stating its his car.
This is a good point. People who have actually built one would be very valuable to have contribute to this thread, as well as people who have been involved in working on one. E.g. I know 650's can work because of the cars I've mapped and seen running, even though I've not installed them on my own car. I know 550's are, in my opinion, too small. I know people who run T61's and are happy with the power they produce, and I've been in them, so I feel qualified to comment on them. I know people with smaller than T61's that aren't so happy. Bigger ones are irrelevant as they increase the fuelling and ancillary requirements. Therefore that's the one I'd choose for minimum spec.
People who have read up on stuff and know what they want can contribute too but please make it clear with a note that it's your plan rather than your experience :)
-Ian
michel lane
08-06-06, 11:51
I have put my setup and my min recommendation, this is based on several kits that i have already installed with min spec they achived on 500- 540hp , but different dynos show different readings. As Tery has mentioned , dont bother using cheap parts like the wastegate / bov /injectors , you get what you pay for . Iam not a tuner nor car engine builder , i only have min experiance with these parts, unlike Terry / Chris wilson / Paul W has alot of knowledge on the machanical side of things. I read up on things and try them on my cars if they dont work then i bin them , it all a matter of making mistakes and learning by them, thats how i have gained my experiance with the engine and cars i have put together. So if you want an expert in resolving problems then go with the professionals in this field. I dont put cars together for money , its purely for fun so my advise is to be taken without contridicting anyone who does this for a living . But if you talk about networks and I.T infrastructure / server 2003 admin .. i would have to charge you £75 per hour + v.a.t
Good call.
What about those in the midst of it like Tony. No experience yet, but he's elbows deep!!
To be honest I won't know what is absolutely essential untill the car is completely mapped and has had a few thousand miles under it's belt. Then I'll know if I've missed anything. :eek: Plus quite a bit of what I'm doing could be described a bit overkill, compared to "bare essential".
Dragonball
08-06-06, 15:45
so is the list restricted to those who have actually built a Single or open to everyone's Interpretation/regurgitation. If the later it would be useful if they could state the experience building singles, like Michel has, stating its his car.
I think that is a fair point Terry
- there are many different levels of involvement (does this mean passing the tools?)...and as we are not here to flatter 'egos' (or advertise!) if kept to 'generic' parts etc then sure it will be really interesting...
As here for the good of all - are questions allowed?
Or does this come under the heading 'PM me?' ;)
I think that is a fair point Terry
- there are many different levels of involvement (does this mean passing the tools?)...and as we are not here to flatter 'egos' (or advertise!) if kept to 'generic' parts etc then sure it will be really interesting...
As here for the good of all - are questions allowed?
Or does this come under the heading 'PM me?' ;)
Depends on the questions Paul TBH
Dragonball
08-06-06, 16:00
Well what good is posting a technical thread demanding that only those with turbo install knowledge and then not answering any questions that are put?
LOL! :)
Frankly no one really cares...
Well what good is posting a technical thread demanding that only those with turbo install knowledge and then not answering any questions that are put?
LOL! :)
Frankly no one really cares...
You are a funny man. You didnt ask any tech questions!
Dragonball
08-06-06, 16:09
Fair enough...
Im liking this thread, can prove to be really helpful.
Now now.
Sure people can ask questions but if this is to be a resource then it's got to remain 'uncluttered' so that someone can just go through a load of minimum specs written by people, rather than 5 pages of discussion over if they need one or two fuel pumps, or a DLI, or an AEM over an E-Manage, you know how these things can go :) I've always got the option of collating the data into an FAQ thread or something though.
But what we do want is more "minimum spec" opinions from those with single turbo experience please :) Bring them on! you never know, we may agree on some bits :rlol:
-Ian
History - BL61, on a VVTi with an eManage.
Min spec
Intake side
3" intake filter (cotton or paper type) could reuse stock filter box + pipework with silicon connectors to 3" turbo housing. (Should be in any budget single kit)...UK or VVTi's will need to couple the MAF back into the intake unless you're using an EMS that allows you to remove it.
A 2 or 3 Row FMIC OR a high quality brand new SMIC + piping from the turbo to the IC...again should be included in the kit.
Intake manifold - Stock
Breather system - Fully closed - boss needs to be welded into the new intake pipe.
Idle control - Stock
BOV - Atmospheric for J-spec, Recirculating for VVTi or UK spec with a MAF - larger capacity required over stock.
Engine
Crank, rods, pistons, rings, bolts, bearings - stock, upto 600BHP.
Cams - stock - though a good idea
Ignition system - NGK BKR7E's gapped to .7mm or BCPRES's gapped to 0.7 or Desno IK24's or NGK BKR7(or 8)EIX's (last two are pregapped).
Oil system - Stock, but it would be advisable to get a gauge and probe to monitor temp to help you decide if you need an additional cooler.
Drivetrain
Clutch - Stock till over 500 at the fly. HPF Bronze/Southbend DXD-F are good replacements.
Autobox - stock but higher stall might be required if you like drag racing...3400 or something like that.
LSD - essential you have a stock one...and consider the TRD LSD when you have more cash.
Exhaust side
Downpipe, centre section, back box - supplied with the kit - usually 3"
Turbo itself - T61 sized non DBB - DBB's add cost though needing a water supply.
Manifold - Cast Manifold...far cheaper than the tubular ones...BUT you'll always wish you had gotten a tubi. (I know I did)
Wastegate - a decent one - 44mm or larger. HKS/TIAL are proven bits of kit.
Oil lines - supplied
Fuel system
Tank, pump(s), wiring, hoses - One Walbro pump, the rest can be stock
Fuel rail - Stock will suffice with drop in 650's
Injectors + resistor pack - 650's with no resistor pack needed - J-spec and VVTI!
Fuel pressure regulator - Stock
Fuel pulsation dampener - Leave it in
Electronics
ECU/fuel controller - E-Manage Blue/eManage Ultimate/FCon-EZ (I'd have the EMU)
Ignition timing control - E-Manage Blue/eManage Ultimate/FCon-EZ (I'd have the EMU)
Things not on the list but you wouldn't go near a single turbo engine if it didn't have them
Gauges - AFR, EGT, Boost
Boost controller - Yes - Blitz or Turbosmart
Any of you guys running singles have an in car fpr gauge or any form of warning/cut related to fuel pressure?
I appreciate that by the time you've actually seen a change or heard a warning beep it could be too late anyway and your sludge like piston remains may be slipping past your turbine wheel but maybe you'd see some giveaways before a catastrophic loss of pressure somewhere?
Any of you guys running singles have an in car fpr gauge or any form of warning/cut related to fuel pressure?
I appreciate that by the time you've actually seen a change or heard a warning beep it could be too late anyway and your sludge like piston remains may be slipping past your turbine wheel but maybe you'd see some giveaways before a catastrophic loss of pressure somewhere?
Nope cause I used just one pump...thus if the pump failed the car shouldn't start/run.
Any of you guys running singles have an in car fpr gauge or any form of warning/cut related to fuel pressure?
I appreciate that by the time you've actually seen a change or heard a warning beep it could be too late anyway and your sludge like piston remains may be slipping past your turbine wheel but maybe you'd see some giveaways before a catastrophic loss of pressure somewhere?
I've got a fuel pressure sensor hooked up to my AEM. If the fuel pressure drops below a certain amount, I'm going to hook it up to light up the engine warning light.
I'd like to increase injector time accordingly to compensate, but I can't remember how to make it work. I'm sure it can be done....
Any of you guys running singles have an in car fpr gauge or any form of warning/cut related to fuel pressure?
I appreciate that by the time you've actually seen a change or heard a warning beep it could be too late anyway and your sludge like piston remains may be slipping past your turbine wheel but maybe you'd see some giveaways before a catastrophic loss of pressure somewhere?
Dan I have a FP Gauge with warning light on but you would need to be watching it TBH mate, as the low pressure will be at idle not WOT. To do that it would need to sense TPS and possibly load to be an effective warning system
I've got a fuel pressure gauge as well, and again, if it starts dropping off on boost you probably won't notice. What you WILL notice though is your AFRs going wibbly woo towards lean... Out of all the gauges that's the easiest one to glance at and get an immediate warning that things aren't right.
-Ian
Alex, I wasn't solely referring to a pump failure.
Terry - why would the low pressure be at idle? Surely a problem could occur at any time - idle being the least damaging of course.
I was just considering the possibility of some sort of ignition cut if the differential fuel pressure dropped by a predetermined amount and that got me thinking about who's actually monitoring f.p.
Yeah your right Dan, the problem is setting something up that doesn't detect the drop in line pressure when you come off boost and flash up as a pump failure, when in fact the line pressure is reducing, just because the manifold pressure is reducing too.
Hence you would have to set something up that would warn you when the pressure at idle (when the fuel pressure is at it's lowest) drops below a given pressure. The downside is, as you point out, that you wouldn't notice if the pressure was dropping on boost, other than seeing the AFR's go lean.
Setting up a system that monitored the differential between manifold and fuel pressure is what you need yes, but how you'd set that up I don't know....
I think the defi fuel pressure gauge will display differential if you have a boost gauge too.
Surely something like the AEM must be able to track differential pressure from map and a pressure transducer in the fuel rail somewhere - output this to a warning or ignition cut if it drops below the preset.
Just wanted to say thanks for putting this together guys. It's great for people like myself who are considering going single, as it means not having to search countless threads and peppering tuners and traders with questions. Hopefully this will be added to the faqs section.
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