Single Turbo Owners - Please comment.

Guys,

I am about to purchase a single turbo kit (small turbo size) and would really appreciate some feedback on the sort of performance you guys are gettin from your cars on pump fuel so I can see if my expectations are a little unrealistic.

Please can you post up your opinions related to my "requirements" from the car and whether they seem realistic from a T61 turbo sized single kit, with decent injectors, intercooler and ecu control, stock J spec cams....

Basically I don't want to end up with a lag monster but by the same token I don't to spend the money and end up with something that my bpu car would give a good run for its money. My car is a 6 speed and I am looking for ultimate street performance. At the moment (with steel turbined stock turbos) I have to brake boost to get anythinkg like a fast enough pick up to keep with 600cc bikes under 80mph. Over 100 these bikes are not a problem. My car is quick at the moment (BPU level), I can pass M3's from a 40 roll by about 85 and have outpulled Audi RS6's, VX220 turbos etc and 600cc bikes over 80mph...

However I am looking for the kind of performance that will be breathtaking between 50 and 120 mph. I want the car to be lively at the lower speeds as well as a reasonable gain up top. I have never been above about 145mph so do not need 190 or 200mph potential from the car really. The majority of my driving is under 110-120 so that is where I should be looking for the gains I think. I think my benchmark wants to be something that will completely destroy the likes of M3s, RS4/6s, and then be able to outpace a 996 turbo or a BMW M5/M6 at almost any speed and put a real challenge to a few super bikes in the 70-140 range. Am I being unrealistic here do you think?

Anyway, if you think your car slots into this kind of performance description then please post up and say so with a rough outline of your performace mods. Or if you feel I'm asking too much from the little 3 litre then please say so too.

Many thanks and much appreciated.

Dan

All i would say is, do it all at one time. I have had to keep fitting extra bits. I cant comment on what you have asked really because im not up and running properly yet!

Edit: Re-read, the requirements that i have found i NEED are:

650cc injectors

Boost controller

FMIC

I got a new rad as i didnt think mine was up to anything

Fuel pump

FPR

AEM Wideband

Emanage Ultimate

Lots of gauges to monitor things, my boost controller should monitor lots more

Extra stuff apart from the obvious i am sure.

+ looking at CAMS

Just subscribing to this as i am interested in the above scenario too.

I've got a BL (Precision Industries) T67 (.68 A/R) and a BL upgraded auto tranny with a 3800 stall converter.

It's very hard (and also expensive ) to get race gas here in Switzerland.

I made 482 RWHP and 660 Nm on pump gas with about 20 psi.

Everyone said the T67 is "the ultimate street turbo" but in my opinion the turbo is too large and also to laggy for only using on pump gas.

So a T61 or perhaps a (Turbonetics) T66 DBB would be the better choice (for me).

Dan, where abouts do you live?? It's all very well reading peoples views on how a single drives but the best thing is to go out for a spin in them. I'm sure members wont mind you going for a ride along sometime if you ask nicely.

Great idea James!

Gloucestershire.

I am interested in people's thoughts on the sort of performance I am after though and whether my aims are realistic.

If you're going JAE then i'll take you out in mine. I've got the SP850GT which is a modified 67 and it's perfect for the 6 speed on the road IMO. It's not laggy at all, i can be cruising in 6th at 85ish and itll boost and go, if you want it to really kick then just knock it down a gear and get in the power band and it'll shift. As for performance, well i've destroyed 3 bikes up to silly speeds as well as a Porsche 911 Turbo S which was embarrasingly easy.

Great idea James!

 

Gloucestershire.

 

I am interested in people's thoughts on the sort of performance I am after though and whether my aims are realistic.

Ah, Dan give Martin at MKIVSTORE a shout as i belive he has a 500bhp showcar. Don't know the specifics but worth finding out.

Get a ride in Terry's car.

Get a ride in Terry's car.

Aboslutely, the set-up that Terry has is perfect for what you're asking after.

Dan,

As you know there are a lot of kits to choose from so take your time.

As you know with the 6-speed the biggest RPM drop on a gear change is about 3500rpm...1st to 2nd...so if you have a turbo that's on or nearly at full boost by 3500-3800rpm you'll never be off boost when gunning it.

So what choices does that leave you with? Well I'd say you could get away with a T71DBB at most...but I don't think that'd do it for you as it is too big.

The smallest you want is a GT35R. These are ever so slightly weenier than a T61 but they are DBB and spin up impressively quickly...more like 3000rpm for full boost. The T61 will be online about 200rpm later. A T61 though should give more topend. Next up from the T61 is the GT4088R. This turbo is DBB and is between the T61 and T67 in term of size (closer to a T67 though). and again it should boost by 3500rpm's, giving about 550BHP. Then is the turbo of the moment IMO... the T67DBB. Garrett DBB cartridge in a T67P trim turbo. Proven to give over 600 at the fly on Optimax, proven to spool to 1bar by 3500rpm....proven to have a longish waiting list atm...the non dbb T67 still produces the power but is about 300rpm later to spool but that's still early enough to be on song for all gear changes....and the bigger the turbo the better your Cruise MPG...27mpg on a T67 with the odd blat isn't to be sniffed at.

IMO, If you want it to roll on from low revs effortlessly you want a GT35R.

If you arn't lazy then the T67DBB P-trim is what you want...but you may have to wait on delivery...and if it's not going to happen soon the GT4088R is a damned fine alternative.

I had a T61 and it was very fast to spool and very easy to live with on the open road. BL-T61, 650cc, Walbro, emanage Blue (Ultimate needed IMO), Aeromotive FPR, Blitz 2Row FMIC and VVTi

Good info there.

god, i cant wait to get properly involved in this stuff

Dan,

 

 

The smallest you want is a GT35R. These are ever so slightly weenier than a T61 but they are DBB and spin up impressively quickly...more like 3000rpm for full boost. The T61 will be online about 200rpm later. A T61 though should give more topend. Next up from the T61 is the GT4088R. This turbo is DBB and is between the T61 and T67 in term of size (closer to a T67 though). and again it should boost by 3500rpm's, giving about 550BHP. Then is the turbo of the moment IMO... the T67DBB. Garrett DBB cartridge in a T67P trim turbo. Proven to give over 600 at the fly on Optimax, proven to spool to 1bar by 3500rpm....proven to have a longish waiting list atm...the non dbb T67 still produces the power but is about 300rpm later to spool but that's still early enough to be on song for all gear changes....and the bigger the turbo the better your Cruise MPG...27mpg on a T67 with the odd blat isn't to be sniffed at.

Alex you need to be careful here bud, there are various trim levels and AR's to all turbo's so they can not be so specifically labelled.

Thanks for these comments guys and thanks for that detailed reply Alex.

I realise what you're saying Terry about tweaking each of those units, taken on board. e.g. Significant difference between a 0.67 and 0.81 A/R on a 67 from what I have found - the 0.81 not being to my tastes!

I know Terry's car is a real monster but that has a few tweaks init that mine wouldn't like the vvti, valcon intake cam, extra rpm capability with the rods and bolts, 4" mid/downpipe and exhaust, special GT35R/T61 turbo etc I think if I rode in that I might then end up a little disappointed with a "stock" T61 conversion.

Terry - Would your car be significantly quicker than Alex's old T61 car or any of the other guys running 1.4bar max from the standard T61 setup with 3" pipes and no cam changes? Let's assume we're not talking budget manifold kits here.

To be honest I like the idea of the T61, I need more power and pull from well under 100mph really, that's the real aim.

If you took a real strong bpu car running 1.2bar with fmic, perfect mapping and all the mods necessary to extract full potential from the stockers and compared to a T61 (as before, well setup etc) or even for argument's sake a T67 car how would it hold up. Let's say 0-60, 40-100 and 70-130mph. Not concerned with the 130mph plus performance really - I'm guessing the single will be quicker up there anyway. Are we talking an embarassing difference in performance - enough to make the bpu look a little poorly?

So who lives near Gloucestershire and happy to take me out for a spin?

Alex you need to be careful here bud, there are various trim levels and AR's to all turbo's so they can not be so specifically labelled.

Hmm yeah...I thought GT4088R was specific...but for clarity I think the divided housing 1.06(ish)a/r exhaust housing.

The T-series I've mentioned for clarity were all 0.68a/r p-trims with the 4" intake/ 2.5" IC connector.

The GT35R final specs I'd have to take advice on...(Terry)

Dan I cant say on Alex's as he never really got any performance figures that I know of. An awful lot is down to the tuning. A well tuned T61 will be faster than a badly tuned T67, T78 etc. I cant put enough emphasis on that. I have tried lots of "singled" car that really do not perform as they should. That is why I only ever recommend that Ian C does the E-Manage stuff, as he AFAIK is the only one that truely has his head around the system.

A properly tuned T61 is a devastating road tool, as is a T67. Either will easily outrun a BPU Hybrid car IMHO in real world conditions.

Hmm yeah...I thought GT4088R was specific...but for clarity I think the divided housing 1.06(ish)a/r exhaust housing.

The T-series I've mentioned for clarity were all 0.68a/r p-trims with the 4" intake/ 2.5" IC connector.

No its not specific as there are divided and non divided houses available, and if what I am told is correct, different compressor housing options available.

I'm not that clued up on these things but I'd thought point you in the direction of someone who may help.

The description of turbo upgrade you've given sounds a lot like BURTS car, I'm also aware that his is running on stock engine internals. If you want a lowdown on what its like, PM him, I'm sure he'd be willing to tell you all about it.

If your still running j-spec brakes get them changed first, or you will not be able to stop the car.

Terry is a good man and will sort you out with a great package.

Cheers again guys - I'll send Burt a pm as well. I'm still digging and gathering info. Keep any performance related comments coming....

UK brakes (albeit they were factory/dealer fitted in Japan) all round.

I know Terry's car is a real monster but that has a few tweaks init that mine wouldn't like the vvti, valcon intake cam, extra rpm capability with the rods and bolts, 4" mid/downpipe and exhaust, special GT35R/T61 turbo etc I think if I rode in that I might then end up a little disappointed with a "stock" T61 conversion.

 

I could sing the praises of Terr's car all day long and not get bored (although I suspect some are getting sick of it and are searching ebay for pom-poms)- Terry's car is awesome, but awesome costs money. No offence to Adam, but his car couldn't be more different from Terry's (considering I was in the passenger seats).

Might I suggest you find yourself a budget, then passenger in members cars who have spent a simialr amount and see how all the different packages/ecu's/turbo's etc all work together and see which is the best combo for you?

i too am planning to go down the 1 big turbo route

just waiting & saving at the min cos its like £3500

whats wrong with your setup at the moment !! it sounds good enough to kill those cars, why change ....you have to sacrifice one for the otherlow down or mid range / top end ???.. i went for mid range and top end because thats the only gears i can get traction on !!!!

I guess (like everyone) I've just got used to the acceleration and now want more. Rather than playing around with 600cc bikes I want to have a laugh with some faster machinery. From what I've been told by people I should be able to blitz my bpu spec car with a good single kit - and that is appealing!

Also, I'm not keen on running the sequentials at 1.15-1.2bar and just feel like I may be pushing them a bit. I'd like to get involved in some track action too and see the small single route as a little less complicated and possibly a bit more tractable and predictable.

And.... I'm really looking forward to doing the work!