View Full Version : Red M had an RLTC install recently can U help me with mine ?
RLTC RPM Signal wire used ?
Hi RedM would it be possible to ask Envy
1) which wire they spliced into for the RPM signal to RLTC (Black/White on RLTC)
I think it could be (E9-58 or A1-28 called IGNITER FEEDBACK) or (E10-16 or A3-16 called TACHO) ?
2) In the RLTC Configuration for CYLINDERS did they input 1 or 6 ?
The reason I ask is my Digital Adjuster shows very roughly 1/6 of the indicated RPM and I`m using A1-28 for my RPM signal.
Thanks in advance Milocoon
Edit/Delete Message
Hiya mate, Gaz should be along later / tomorrow and should be able to help :thumbs:
Thanks in advance, once I`m 100% I will post the exact details for a 1994 J-Spec Auto as theres a lot of confusion !
Cheers milocoon
Thanks in advance, once I`m 100% I will post the exact details for a 1994 J-Spec Auto as theres a lot of confusion !
Cheers milocoon
didnt you get any supra specific instructions then?
didnt you get any supra specific instructions then?
:rlol:
Yes I believe everyone can download them, but I'm confused why our support isnt working for you? Phil not helpful?
Phil`s been helpful but did his install a long time ago.
From memory he thinks he used the tacho wire.
A reply from Weinelm says "Alternatively, it could be that you have picked your RPM signal off one of the igniter trigger lines (IGT1 to IGT6), these will only fire a sixth as often as the feedback line (IGF), the ECU RPM output or Tacho feed. If the system is set up correctly (receiving the correct signal) the cylinders should be set to 6."
My problem is with the RPM wire, advice from here states only to use 6 for Number of Cylinders so I`ve gone with this, Racelogic say it doesn`t matter as this is an RPM/Divider factor and will not affect igniter cuts at all. I was hoping that someone with a digital adjuster with the rpm wire connected to A1-28 or E9-58
(my J-Spec is A1, A2 and A3 on the ECU) might have responded as this shown on the Racelogic electrical connections pdf.
I`ll try the tacho from A3-16 on Saturday.
:(
Attached T is A1-28 Red/Yellow wire (same location as E9-58)
Meant to post this last night but too drunk.
There is a Yahoo RLTC group. Mike Broadbent of Racelogic is a member (you have to sign up).
It is here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RLTC/
Gaz Walker
17-03-06, 07:41
Hi Milocoon,
Did you get sorted? I'm not a mechanic/installer so I'd have to ask the guys downstairs!
Gaz.
Milocoon, thanks for that pdf mate.. going to be helpful for me tomorrow as I just need to finish off the ABS wiring :)
Shaun.
Clarrification on the RPM wiring anyone ??
I have SAFC & AVC-R on E9-58 IGNIGTER so I have wired onto E10-16 TACHO .. is this going to OK ?
Oh, and 1 last Question .. the Diagrams of the ECU connectors, <gulps hard> I take it they are from the Top where the wires go into the connector ?
(Please if this is not the case can you let me know *gentley * )
Thanks,
Shaun.
Hi if you cut the top 6 on A1 or E9 from Left Side then you`re fine, the wires are colour coded and should have tied up with the pdf attachment earlier in the thread, have you finished your install yet ?
Do you have a Digital Adjuster, let me know if your revs tie up with your tacho ? :rolleyes:
Yes I believe everyone can download them, but I'm confused why our support isnt working for you? Phil not helpful?
Really?
Does anyone have VVTi Auto instructions they can point me too then please?
I found this attached for RPM signal, but not sure of injectors. I guess I could check the wires out connecting the the injectors themselves.
Whoo HOO! I wired up the correct wires for the Injectors (believe me, I had my doubts after reading here and was a bit *worried*).
Milocoon,
I'll let you know when I get the Digi Adjuster wired in what the RPM does, as stated above, I have used E10-16 TACHO so I hope so.
Oh one last worry here .. I followed the guide http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/racelogic_Install/index.html and have wired up the power to "Connect the RL's power wire to an ignition switched power supply. This can be found on terminal E10-1", which according to my working out (on diagram on above link) is NOT on A3 bottom right (E10-31)but A3 top right (E10-1) ???? Any thoughts, think this is ok ?
Cheers
Shaun.
This can be found on terminal E10-1", which according to my working out (on diagram on above link) is NOT on A3 bottom right (E10-31)but A3 top right (E10-1)
Another diag for you.
Bottom right here and on the PDF above.
Yea Pete, I know that the bottom right is used as I have other Apexi stuff wired to it but the guide on MKiv says use Ignition Switched (E10-1) not the ECU power (E10-31). I figured that this must be the favoured point and seeing as my ECU power had stuff on it already, and I didn't want to overload it, thought I'd go along with the guide.
Have I made a bit of a "fool" of myself ?
Oh, not turned over the car yet so no damage .. so far !
Shaun.
I didn't realise this would be so much of an issue for you guys. I will put up a step by setup video instruction in the next few weeks as I have a couple to do.
I do not have a VVT-i to do but Ill see what I can do re the ECU pins.
I do not have a VVT-i to do but I'll see what I can do re the ECU pins.
That's all I need really. I like to be prepared before I start hacking at wires.
Thanks Martin.
To be fair I've not given it any thought yet as I'm working way too much to have daylight time to look at doing it.
DS8 Shaun, I used A3-31 (same location physically as E10-31) for my ignition swiched power connection to the RLTC, it doesn`t really matter as long as the source is ignition switched and does not go to Ground when cranking.
Found an interesting post on Yahoo RLTC forums by Derek Wang who supplied the guide on the Racelogic site, even he had RPM signal problems.
This is part of the long thread.
In RLTC@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Wang" <derektwang@h...> wrote:
> > Hi Bob,
> > Thanks for your continual help on the RL.
> > I have emailed Ben at RL about this issue. He had recommended
that
> I try
> > using one of the igniter negative wires to feed the RL's RPM
> signal. This
> > would require setting the cylinder parameter of the RL to 1 for
it
> to
> > properly interpret RPM. I was hoping to try this next week when
I'm
> > finished with my clutch install.
> >
> > For you MKIV users out there: Do you know of an alternate RPM
> signal? The
> > main igniter wire is the one I use to feed the S-AFC and the VPC,
> > unfortunately, both of these items are critical to the car. If
> there is an
> > alternate signal wire, I would like to move the RL to this
signal.
> I'm
> > wondering if using just 1 of the 6 igniters and setting the
> parameter to 1
> > cylinder would have other negative effects.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Derek Wang
> >
Pete VVTi ABS connections
Theres a thread on here
http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=217&page=2
Summary
ttsupra97
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 27
Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Bingo! *I checked over my ABS wiring and sure enough 3 of my connections weren't connected properly (take about poor success rate!). *At least I got the right wires. *So, now I can confirm that the 1997 US and jap-spec Supras have the same wiring where the ABS sensors are concerned, namely:
FR+ A21-3 (red)
FL+ A21-8 (white)
RR+ A20-10 (blue)
RL+ A20-22 (purple)
Cheers,
Tony.
(Edited by ttsupra97 at 8:54 pm on Feb. 13, 2002)
Reply With Quote:p
A good Meter will tell you which wires are which.
Pete VVTi ABS connections
Theres a thread on here
http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=217&page=2
Wow - That's from waaaay back.
Cheers for that. (I had supposedly looked)
Now I've found two ECU pin outs from this thread (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=34564&highlight=vvti+racelogic) which label the injectors in a different order.
I wonder which is right? It would make sense that Toyota would wire them in sequence as per the first pic (the numbers above)... but then I've learned that not everything makes sense.
Oddly the Pete Betts ECU pinouts (in the right pic) highlight a different wire for RPM - are they both acceptable I wonder?
Wow - I almost feel ready to embark on a big adventure! ;)
While y'all are messing about with wires can one of you find out how to make the trac cont button switch off and stay off, even after a restart?
I`ve done a lot of searching on this and to date this is a bit like finding a hen with teeth !:search:
To my knowledge no-one has fathomed this out so until they do then if its a worry switch it off after startup, RLTC should cut in before this if its setup properly, I`m having a go shortly at my RPM wiring, its a bit cold outside.
I've spent about ten hours searching both on here and Supraforums looking for the Trac Off thing.
While I haven't found it yet I have found the Holy Grail, Lord Lucan, Shergar and Atlantis. They were easy compared to the Trac Off solution.
Now I've found two ECU pin outs from this thread (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=34564&highlight=vvti+racelogic) which label the injectors in a different order.
I wonder which is right? It would make sense that Toyota would wire them in sequence as per the first pic (the numbers above)... but then I've learned that not everything makes sense.
Oddly the Pete Betts ECU pinouts (in the right pic) highlight a different wire for RPM - are they both acceptable I wonder?
Wow - I almost feel ready to embark on a big adventure! ;)
Merckx says that he checked the wires on the injectors so my guess would be that these would be the right ones. But maybe if one of us also double checks.
Am following this as mine is soon to be delivered. Hopefully. Martin?
RPM feed I used in the end was from the rear of the Revcounter, used a ring crimp on one of the 3 screws. With 6 cylinders in the software setting its perfect. I do NOT recommend A1-28 (also known as E9-58) as I now believe this is only suitable if you set the number of cylinders to 1.
The graph display on the Digital Adjuster is quite handy and I have no spikes on any of the wheels and the RPM graph shows no signs of any dropouts. Only trouble is its a dry sunny day so the car doesn`t misbehave anyway.
RedM I put my Digital Adjuster where my ashtray sits so that I can always go back to standard if I choose to, I cut a piece of plastic sheet to fill the gap and covered it in silver foil. I put a plastic can cap below it to support it.
Time for a well earned beer methinks.
For people with no laptop you can load the dat file and change the wheel channels on a home PC and if you have a J-Spec TT Auto. Just need to put a 12 V supply on the fuseholder red wire and earth.
Channel 1 on RLTC is RED
Connect this to the Front Right ABS Sensor Red wire going to A19-16
Channel 2 on RLTC is BLUE
Connect this to the Front Left ABS Sensor White wire going to A19-9
Channel 3 on RLTC is YELLOW
Connect this to the Rear Right ABS Sensor Blue wire going to A18-8
Channel 4 on RLTC is GREEN
Connect this to the Rear Left ABS Sensor Purple wire going to A18-9
I checked these afterwards by spinning each in turn and they were all OK.
Car in Neutral, handbrake off to do the rears, front wheels chocked.
Which dat file did you use?
PS Pete, using the revcounter sorts out the RPM link so then it's just the injectors to solve.
I got this from MkiV Store and it`s all down to Terminator for the settings, all I did was change the wheel sizes and change the Channels allocated to the wheels. If you want a copy then try this link
http://support.mkivstore.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=view&parentcategoryid=8&pcid=6&nav=0,6
I used AUTO TIGHT WINTER
:taped:
Well, in between the rain and mothers day shopping I managed to wire up the ABS wires!
Hopefully get chance to do the rest tomorrow
Good luck Pete .. As has been said before .. TAKE OUT THE PASSENGER SEAT ! .. makes the job really akward rather than impossible :D
Shaun.
Terminator
26-03-06, 02:51
I`ve done a lot of searching on this and to date this is a bit like finding a hen with teeth !:search:
To my knowledge no-one has fathomed this out so until they do then if its a worry switch it off after startup, RLTC should cut in before this if its setup properly, I`m having a go shortly at my RPM wiring, its a bit cold outside.
The stock sytem will still kick in higher levles of cut if left switched on. The TB butterfly will close and you will lose all power for a few seconds. This is best avoided and the reason most people coose to fit RLTC in the first place.
The big difference with TC is the stock system is a basic on off all or nothing where as RL is progressive and smooth and proactive rather than reactive. It constanly varies cut once under control power is avaible to use. Not so with the stock system.
Don't suppose you'd fancy emailing me your hallowed DAT file would you Phil? :)
Pretty please to peterbarfield 'at' hotmail.com
Dat files are on MKiV store Pete
AUTO/MANUAL 3 types of driving style !:taped:
Yeah, I'm using tight winter auto dat file direct from that site.
hmm, I wouldnt personally use a 'template' RLTC file, Termy does a full job on them by customising for your wheel and tyre size and has fine tuned them to the nth degree.
He can normally knock one up if you just give him your wheel and tyre size and type of supra its going on.
JB
Dat files are on MKiV store Pete
AUTO/MANUAL 3 types of driving style !:taped:
Yup - I got those, but I was interested in seeing what Phils was like seeing as so many people swear by it.
I've wired everything EXCEPT the injectors as I ran out of time. The laptop happily reports it all running smoothly with graphs and logs etc :D.
Couldn't get it to auto calibrate, but then I knew which wire was which to each wheel so manually entered the data.
I'll set a calibration again when the injectors are wired to ensure it matches what I think. :thumbs:
hmm, I wouldnt personally use a 'template' RLTC file, Termy does a full job on them by customising for your wheel and tyre size and has fine tuned them to the nth degree.
He can normally knock one up if you just give him your wheel and tyre size and type of supra its going on.
JB
Yup, I entered my own wheel and tyres sizes and it seems to have calculated the rolling radius ok from that. (Standard 17"s).
I'm surprised how simple it all is.
Not done mine yet Pete.
Let us know which cylinder numbering you use and whether all seems good with this.
Cheers,
Nick
Yup - I got those, but I was interested in seeing what Phils was like seeing as so many people swear by it.
I've wired everything EXCEPT the injectors as I ran out of time. The laptop happily reports it all running smoothly with graphs and logs etc :D.
Couldn't get it to auto calibrate, but then I knew which wire was which to each wheel so manually entered the data.
I'll set a calibration again when the injectors are wired to ensure it matches what I think. :thumbs:
Yup, I entered my own wheel and tyres sizes and it seems to have calculated the rolling radius ok from that. (Standard 17"s).
I'm surprised how simple it all is.
Pete, Phil is on retainer by us and does ALL things RLTC. Documentation, Support, Dat's etc..... Just log a support call and it goes straight to him.
I'll second that. Phil has been hugely helpful with my troublesome set-up. I should have taken his advice about setting the wheel allocations manually instead of spending the better part of a week trying to get the calibration plug method to lock.
That plug is rubbish and even the top guy at RL hasn't used one for about 18 months!
Pete, Phil is on retainer by us and does ALL things RLTC. Documentation, Support, Dat's etc..... Just log a support call and it goes straight to him.
Ahhh! (Penny drops)
That plug is rubbish and even the top guy at RL hasn't used one for about 18 months!
LOL - it took me 10 mins to work that out!
Woohooo!
It works first time! :D
Took me about 4 hours in total with configuration and testing etc. (Taking lots of care to get it right). Taking the seat out was a great idea.
Here's a pic - the horrible bullet connectors were nothing to do with me, it came with the SLD wired in like that :(
(and yes this is before I heated the shrink)
Bought some heatshrink from Maplins to finish it off nicely.
I took it to a local industrial estate and tried to spin it in every setting - it's pretty cool how it cuts the injectors.
Thanks to all for the info you've shared so I could get it right first time - it's this selfless freedom of help and tech info what makes this club the best! :D
Glad yours works mate.
Yours is being replaced isn't it? Bummer :(
Sure it won't be long though.
Yours is being replaced isn't it? Bummer :(
Sure it won't be long though.
Replaced? There has been no mention of a replacement.
Replaced? There has been no mention of a replacement.
Must've dreamed it then. So what's the status with yours now? It was just the power wire wasn't it? (It's all flooding back now)
The status is that it's fitted but I'm not using it.
The wheel allocations have been scrambled, possibly by the loose wire touching the unit.
When I have switched it on it a) still cuts the engine and b) causes itermittent huge puffs of black smoke when the mis-fire is induced! They don't happen when the unit is off at all.
Even if I can get it running correctly it looks like, ultimately, it's going to have to go back to RL so they can see if it's damaged.
F**ked off? You betcha.
The status is that it's fitted but I'm not using it.
The wheel allocations have been scrambled, possibly by the loose wire touching the unit.
Have you been able to hook up a PC to it to verify the settings? Shame you're not local or I'd happily do what I could for you.
Had the wheel allocations set at Envy. Worked fine until the unsecured RL unit pulled the ignition wire out of the inline fuse.
I had, before that happened, managed to connect it to the PC and look at the wheel allocations. After the incident that required a flatbed truck to get us home the battery was disconnected in order for us to safely reconnect said wire.
As I understand it the RL unit should have remembered the settings but it didn't. It was flashing away and turns out that it needed re-allocationg. This took days using the plug. It locked first time at Envy! Now it seems to have allocated the wheels differently! Don't know how. No-one has rewired the set-up!
So, I think I can be forgiven for not having any faith in the unit at this time.
Woohooo!
It works first time! :D
Thanks to all for the info you've shared so I could get it right first time - it's this selfless freedom of help and tech info what makes this club the best! :D
Pete,
Can you let us know what the order of the injectors was in the end and also where you connected the RPM up to? Or ideally, which ECU diagram do I need from earlier in this post... (Happy with the ABS) As I said, haven't started yet.
Much appreciated,
Nick
Pete,
Can you let us know what the order of the injectors was in the end and also where you connected the RPM up to? Or ideally, which ECU diagram do I need from earlier in this post... (Happy with the ABS) As I said, haven't started yet.
Much appreciated,
Nick
Of course.
After checking by looking at the injectors themselves I determined that the correct one is the sequential numbers version where inj 1 was on the right to inj 6 on the left (the numbers at the top).
You can see the wire colours as they feed into the injectors - you don't have to move anything. The RPM was connected to the pin on the ECU as per http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=750233&postcount=26
Firstly I tackled the ABS sensors and noted which coloured wire was put to which wheel (needed to configure the software rather than the useless dongle, you can tell which channel by the colours to which wheel) I used a multimeter to check the pin on the ABS ECU connector block back to the pin on the RaceLogic Socket to test the connections.
I then connected the power, RPM (on ECU) and Earthed to the chassis. At this point it was possible to run the software on the laptop and view the RPM and wheel speeds on the realtime graph.
After a day or two I was brave enough to tackle the injectors tonight - it really was quite easy, but like I said before - take out the passenger seat. Makes it much easier (only four bolts and just lifts out)
Terminator
01-04-06, 11:36
Just to confirm, the data on Mkivstore.com are exact copies of the base files I use. In my experience of supplying dats I have never seen a pre supplied internal dat that is matched to the car. Some actually allow the car to run some even provide a degree of TC, others cause non starting, poor running and a host of other things. To be fair RL dont expect people to buy RL and use it out of the box. It is supposed to set up so that you can get the best from it and so that it is matched to your car and your requirements.
I would never trust a file that came preinstalled in the box. Always get a dat that is designed to suit your needs. The dats I have provided, are a starting point. With the correct wheel allocations and tire data they will give excellent traction control for most situations. If you get tempted to tweak them, make sure you only change one parameter at a time and monitor its effect and always keep a couple of copies of the dat that works well. Where I have supplied a dat, I keep a copy minus wheel allocation, so you can always get an original from me. If you want to send me a copy of your good dat with wheel allocations I will store it on my machine so you have an off site copy.
If a RL unit scrambles a dat, there is a problem. The RL unit holds data indefinitely without power. If the unit is shown that it is changing dats, it is is likely to be faulty and needs to go back to RL.
Terminator
01-04-06, 11:43
Of course.
After checking by looking at the injectors themselves I determined that the correct one is the sequential numbers version where inj 1 was on the right to inj 6 on the left (the numbers at the top).
You can see the wire colours as they feed into the injectors - you don't have to move anything. The RPM was connected to the pin on the ECU as per http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=750233&postcount=26
Firstly I tackled the ABS sensors and noted which coloured wire was put to which wheel (needed to configure the software rather than the useless dongle, you can tell which channel by the colours to which wheel) I used a multimeter to check the pin on the ABS ECU connector block back to the pin on the RaceLogic Socket to test the connections.
I then connected the power, RPM (on ECU) and Earthed to the chassis. At this point it was possible to run the software on the laptop and view the RPM and wheel speeds on the realtime graph.
After a day or two I was brave enough to tackle the injectors tonight - it really was quite easy, but like I said before - take out the passenger seat. Makes it much easier (only four bolts and just lifts out)
RL have admitted they do not use the connector to calibrate wheels settings. They use a lap top with the software in monitor mode whilst driving round a ttight turn. The traces will show the slowest wheel OS rear, fastest NS front etc a couple of turns in either directions will make it easy to identify the correct allocations. By turning down the min speed from 14kph to about 8kph it might be possible to do this in a U turn.
Been out to test it today, allowed my friend to drive it too. We're both well impressed!
I tried the winter version which does seem a little restrictive, will try another one out another day.
Went on a nice drive today. Could of done with a usable system. Had to defer to a Civic type R in the wet.
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