oilman Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I read so much stuff on the internet about Synthetic Oils that is simply not true so I felt it was time to tell the truth rather than accept the myth. So in future when you see someone state any of these, please do me a favour and point them at this thread! Synthetic motor oils damage seals: Complete Nonsense! Any oil seals made after 1975 or thereabouts will be entirely compatible with any type of synthetic engine oil. (The same goes for synthetic gear oils and transmission oil seals.) It must be understood that everything associated with lubrication is thoroughly tested. The major oil manufacturers do not make oils that attack seals; seal manufacturers ensure that their products function correctly with modern lubricants. Synthetic oils are too thin: It is true that the best synthetic blends can be low viscosity (0w-20 for example), but they do not have to be! It is also true that the latest engines are designed to run on thin oil, which improves power output and fuel consumption. Even so, thicker synthetic based grades (10w-50, 15w-50, 20w-50etc) are available for air-cooled motors, older engines, or severe high temperature conditions. These grades can also benefit rebuilt classic engines dating back to the 1940s. Synthetics mean higher oil usage: The complete opposite of the truth. Oil consumption in well-maintained modern engines is mainly down to the oil evaporating at high temperatures. Synthetic base oils (specially the PAO and ester types) are very resistant to evaporation loss even in low viscosity blends, so oil consumption is minimised. Obviously, engines with worn valve guides, defective seals and worn piston rings will use oil regardless, so there is no point in using expensive synthetics as an ‘old banger lube’. Synthetic oils are not compatible with other oils: All engine oils intended for normal road use in recent 4-stroke engines are compatible with one another, regardless of the base make-up. (mineral, PAO/ester/hydrocracked synthetic, and semi-synthetic.) There is no need to flush or strip down an engine when changing from one type to another. (…but be careful with the exception: castor oil based racing oils.) Synthetic oils produce sludge: Well honestly, this is just totally daft. All synthetic bases are more resistant to oxidation than mineral oil, and sludge is largely due to oxidation. In any case, all motor oils intended for road use meet the higher API specs such as SH, SJ, SL and diesel equivalents. One of the main reasons for introducing the API specs back in the 1950s was to deal with oil sludge problems. All high-spec oils run very clean, especially synthetics. Synthetic oils cannot be used with catalytic converters: ‘Cats’ will perform more efficiently and last longer if synthetic based engine oil is used. Their lower volatility (see 3 above) means that less oil reaches the combustion chambers via crankcase ventilation, so there are less harmful ash residues from burnt oil to de-activate the catalyst matrix. Synthetic oils can void warranties: People who make statements such as this never define the type of synthetic, thus revealing their ignorance. Provided that an oil meets or exceeds the API and viscosity ranges specified in the handbook, the warranty will not be affected. (By law, OEMs cannot insist that a particular brand of oil must be used to maintain warranty.) Synthetic oils will last forever: The better synthetic blends will certainly last longer*, especially in high performance or high annual mileage situations, but ‘forever’ is not on, simply because contaminants such as soot, and acid gasses from traces of sulphur in the fuel degrade the oil. (*Provided that a very shear resistant VI improver polymer is used in the oil formulation to keep the viscosity up to spec. This point is often forgotten. Synthetic oils are too expensive: True, for older vehicles that use a lot of oil or are almost ready for the scrap yard. For cars that are worth maintaining, the right types of synthetic oil are a cost-effective way of retaining ‘as new’ performance, low fuel consumption, and reducing maintenance costs. (See 6 above, for example. ‘Cats’ aren’t cheap!) Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 On the seal comments Simon, could you look into the V160 gearbox oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/getrag/no_redline/getrag.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Terry, Are they claiming that synthetics are not suitable or just too good for the job? Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 There were a lot of posts in the past were it was said that any other oil except the V160 made the seals swell and similar. I can't find the orginal post which is a real shame. Many 6 speeds have leaking seals on the tail shafts. This has generally been put down to the incorrect Oil being used. Would appreciate you take on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Well it is probably down to the formulation (blend) there are so many. Pao's (ala M1) tend to shrink seals Esters (ala Silkolene/Motul) tend to swell seals If the oil is a combination of ester/pao then there is a counter effect. I know of this problem from early Rotaries but I know for a fact that ester/pao's have no problems in these engines and are used in "spy-drone" rotaries all over the world with no ill effects. TBH Terry, it's probably a question of trial and error. Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Thanks Simon. Is Toyota the only source of V160? I can send you some if you want to analyse it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 I believe so but if you can locate me a technical data sheet I'll see if we can find something. Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I believe so but if you can locate me a technical data sheet I'll see if we can find something. Cheers Simon mmmmm now your asking. Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 It's supposed to be the same as ATF ESSO Dexron D21065 http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/getrag/specs/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 I'm trying to find the data sheet for this and then will see what we can do. Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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