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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Traction Control in wet weather


AJI
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Hello,

 

I had a scary moment the other day when it was raining, I have the traction control button FIRMLY ON when it's wet but when I went round a sharp bend the back end stepped out quite a long way. I applied opposite lock and got it back again but I thought the traction control was supposed to stop this from happening in the first place?

 

Yes I did the mistake of applying throttle before the apex but as soon as there is a loss of grip the engine revs should not rise and spinn the wheels surely!!

 

In a straight line the trac-control works great, it takes power from the rear wheels when accelerating too hard as it is supposed to but it the corners I'm unsure about.

 

Is my trac-control up the Sh*t creek or what??

 

AJI

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Hi....

 

I think it would be fair to say that any traction control system is only capable of controlling power oversteer. If you enter a corner faster than the tyres are able to grip, you will slide and nothing I know of is going to control that other than the driver.

 

You may wish to review what brand/type of tyres you are running. I currently run Avon ZZ1's which have minimal grip in the wet. Even with the Racelogic on wet/tart mode I have lost the back end on a roundabout.

 

 

regards...........

 

 

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From the description of the problem it sounds like you applied the power as you came out of the bend. You really need Racelogic Traction control to deal with that problem. You just missed a massive group buy and now theres about 10 people who have it or will have it fitted soon.

 

It allows you to adjust the amount of slip you allow so that you can still have fun but be safe at the same time. Even hardliners who said they wouldnt get it are getting it (and that includes me).

 

Let me know if you want us to give you a price on the full unit.

 

JB

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AJI

 

As everyone's said, the stock traction control system is really fairly useless.  In fact it can be MORE dangerous to have it switched on.

 

It cuts power by cutting the throttle, but this is an inherently very slow way to cut engine power, and that is why you will get wheelspin BEFORE the stock trac control can do anything about it, and then the systems effectively goes too far and cuts power for Waaaay too long, leaving you with no oomph.

Racelogic TC is much much more sophisticated, both in the elctronics and in the way it cuts power : it sequentially stops the fuel injectors injecting fuel into the cylinders which is a very fast way of resucing power.

 

to be honest, i would swithc the stock TC off, and just learn to be careful with the throttle in the wet, until you can fit the Racelogic system.

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Cutting power via the throttle is pretty much the only way you'll get the back to snap back into place if you're holding a RWD slide anyway, so the traction control is right in that respect.

 

The Supra is a funny beast to drive, other cars seem reliant more on weight shifting to get the tail out, but due to the light back end (plastic bumper, anyone?). huge amounts of torque through the back wheels and massive, heavy power plant in the front, it's going to be unstable in the wet.

 

Drive like a pansy in the wet, drive harder in the dry.  I get Micra drivers racing past me in the wet, but it's better than (a) tw*tting your car into the kerb or worse, and (b) trusting in some fancy electronics to do the job your bottom was invented for - reading the drift!

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Quote: from Paul Booth on 10:21 am on Sep. 29, 2001[br]

Ooh, your gonna be sorry you said that when all those with RL TC read it..... :biggrin:

 

 

If I could drive a Supra in the wet or dry on the limit with 100% accuracy I wouldn't bother with the Racelogic. However my butt is infalible and my car/NCD to valuable :biggrin:

 

(Edited by GavinL at 10:39 am on Sep. 29, 2001)

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Having ridden bikes and driven powerful rear wheel drive cars for many years I know my arse is in tune with the vehicle I am riding on or in.

 

RL  gives you the opportunity to tune the system so your arse can take over if you want it too. Just because  I tested the  RL system on an empty wet road flat our to 100 in the pouring rain, does not meant this is the way I would drive all the time. I have too much respect  for other road users, my self and my car for that.

 

I think most of us drive according to conditions, I for one don’t rely on RLTC in the wet.  BUT it does give an increased sense of security knowing that if you find some loose stones, leaves under the rain or a nice invisible patch of diesel, the system will help to keep your car on the road.  By the very nature of the car, well describe in posts above, the Supra can and probably will catch most of us out at one time or another.

 

I am glad to see someone is so confident in their driving skills that they can cope with all conditions. I just hope we don't read of the addition of one particular member’s car to the list of Supra's smashed on our winter roads:(

 

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Quote: from Syed Shah on 8:53 pm on Sep. 28, 2001[br]Definately! Just missed the last group buy, would like it with the full-throttle gear changes though.

The kit Justin is selling will work the full thottle shift too, you just have to feed from one of the pins to a switch on the clutch peddle (not supplied), the shift light is also part of the package, just have to set it with a lap top and the diagnostic light works as a shift light (I have mine installed on the dash), or you can replace the LED with a bulb.

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The original post to the thread is a perfect example of what I see is the primary evil of traction control.

 

The driver thinks he's okay but he is heading for disaster. All that assessing power -versus- grip doesn't really matter... let the traction control deal with the driving... I'll just sit here pointing and pressing.  

 

Okay, he was not to know the stock Trac is $hite. So much so that I feel it should come with a health warning: DANGER This Trac Control Can Seriously Mess Up Your Car!

 

I agree with Phil regarding motorcycles. There is nothing more tail happy than a powerful sports motorcycle. You have to constantly assess the road surface and treat the controls (especially the throttle) with the utmost respect. Or it'll spit you off in the blink of an eye.

 

On a bike you simply *have* to ride according to basic rules. Like, always brake and change gear in a straight line. As well as other stuff, like, let the brakes do the braking and the engine/gearbox do the accelerating. I had a Ducati 916SP once that had *so* much engine braking, if you were to let the clutch out at the wrong relative speed between wheel and transmission, the rear wheel would lock up.

 

Also, on a bike, it is *essential* to get the suspension in balance before turning in, and being very precise about throttle control throughout the curve. The machine must be settled on the turn-in or you'll simply overload the front. The front wheel will tuck leaving bike and rider sliding into the gravel. Too much power before the apex and you run the risk of highsiding; where the rear comes around the rider's outside and the machine sits up and spits the rider off. And on a bike, there's no chopping and changing lines and/or gears mid-curve. And no foot-on-the-brakes after you realised you came in too hot. The machine simply won't let you get away with it.  

 

All these basics are *equally* applicable to a car. But in a car the driver is FAR more insulated from the effects of sloppy driving. I find you can get away with SO much more in a powerful car, that you simply *cannot* get away with on a powerful bike. Especially with electronic gizmos like a good quality traction control.

 

Ultimately, I see it this way:

 

A traction-control system cannot make a bad driver any better. In fact, it could make them worse by shielding them from the consequences of their bad driving. To the point where, if the car *did* let go, the outcome would almost certainly be disastrous.

 

But a quality traction-control can give a good driver an edge.

 

Yours,

J

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