View Full Version : 19 inch & Judder
Just had a set of 19in alloys fitted 235*35 on 8.5 & 265*30 on 9.5 , apparently i got the u.k spec brakes on my car, b'cos they have Supra written over them (is that true) SO the alloys at the front wouldnt go on properly. they had to shave a bit of the spokes of the alloy & use a 3 mil spacer, p.s for good measure i got the car lowered with some eibach springs as well.
Now the surprising thing is round town the ride hasnt suffered at all, but once you build up some speed around 70ish + the steering starts to shake?
Has anyone got any ideas, as i'm abit scared to drive my car at speed, and am desperatly feeling the need for speed
"They had to shave a bit of the spokes of the alloy & use a 3 mil spacer" Err scary i would have thought wheel makers build their wheels to very exacting standards for stress cracking ect, how did they Shave a bit off ??????
If you can drive through the vibration i.e. it disapears at say 80-90 mph it sounds like bad balancing. however this may not be down to the wheels the spacers may be out of balance or out of line if they do not sit tight on the studs.
I dont know as i would want to drive a 300+ bhp car on a set of wheels that have had the spokes shaved though :shocked:
Quote: from dil on 8:50 pm on Oct. 22, 2001[br]Just had a set of 19in alloys fitted 235*35 on 8.5 & 265*30 on 9.5 , apparently i got the u.k spec brakes on my car, b'cos they have Supra written over them (is that true) SO the alloys at the front wouldnt go on properly. they had to shave a bit of the spokes of the alloy & use a 3 mil spacer, p.s for good measure i got the car lowered with some eibach springs as well.
Now the surprising thing is round town the ride hasnt suffered at all, but once you build up some speed around 70ish + the steering starts to shake?
Has anyone got any ideas, as i'm abit scared to drive my car at speed, and am desperatly feeling the need for speed
Just take it straight back to the people who did the work and get them to fix it.
Mark Ayling
23-10-01, 10:11
My first J-Spec Supra had UK brakes and I had to have spacers fitted so that the wheels would go on. ^Fitting spacers obviously means longer studs, they did fit longer studs didn't they??? ^If not then I wouldn't drive it until you've got some!!!
Even with the spacers/studs and the balancing done, I was never happy with the overall handling of the car, it never felt "right".
As for "shaving a bit off the spokes" of the alloys, well......:shocked:
Brian Jackett
23-10-01, 11:11
If they have shaved a bit off the wheels then it may not be possible to balance the wheels correctly.
Very worrying
regards
A quality wheel should be very well balanced before you add a tire. So unless ^the removal of wheel material was done with the balance in mind, and effectively they were rebalanced before the tires were put on you may have problems. IMO
I suspect that any manufactures guarantee is now void, unless they carried out the work.
(Edited by Phil Wall at 12:03 pm on Oct. 23, 2001)
Paul Booth
23-10-01, 12:43
I am reluctant to believe any commercial outfit would do something so dangerous. It almost sounds like a wind-up.
I have never heard anything as stupid as this................ If the garage advised this , they should be avoided .
I spoke to a national and reputable alloy wheel dealership this afternoon. They would not alter the wheels in any way to make them fit a car, however they would use added spacers. They were very concerned that any outlet would grind into wheels to make them fit. They suggested that the manufacturer would go ape shit if they knew what was going on.
I would suggest that you contact the wheel manufactures tell them what the fitter has done and ask their advice. If, as we suspect, the manufacturer says they have buggered the wheels, then have the garage for not providing merchandise of adequate quality. Then get in your car on your old wheels and get the hell out of there.
Paul Booth
23-10-01, 15:35
Quote: from Phil Wall on 3:30 pm on Oct. 23, 2001[br]
I spoke to a national and ^reputable alloy wheel dealership this afternoon. They would not alter the wheels in any way to make them fit a car, however they would use added spacers. They were very concerned that any outlet would grind into wheels to make them fit. They suggested ^that the manufacturer would go ape shit if they knew what was going on. ^
I would suggest that you contact the wheel manufactures tell them what the fitter has done and ask their advice. If, as we suspect, the manufacturer says they have buggered the wheels, then have the garage for not ^providing merchandise of adequate quality. Then get in your car on your old wheels and get the hell out of there.
I still think it's a wind-up. No one would do anything so blatantly dangerous.
Peter Howe
23-10-01, 15:36
If somebody said they were going to use a grinder on a set of brand new alloys I'd just splashed out on, I'd only agree if I got to use it on their face.
P.
I hope we all have been had.
If not, we have not heard the last of this, 19's are not cheap.
Paul Whiffin
23-10-01, 21:39
I reckon this sounds like the spacers are causing the problem because the wheel isn't centering properly, its probably spinning round like an egg. I had a similar problem with my turbo Mini a long time ago and thats what it was. I would NEVER fit spacers to any car ever again. ^Wouldn't recommend shaving your wheels down either. Take them back to the suppliers and get them to sort it.
Cheers
Paul
Yep i had the same thing with spacers on a BMW and i will not fit spacers again!
But i just cant believe someone would grind down a set of wheel spokes :shocked:
Guys cheers for all your replies, now you've all got me seriously worried, the set i've got fitted are millie miglia Evo, ( has anyone else got these fitted, i've seen them on two other supra's but only in passing so wasn't able to ask if any work had to be done to get them on). To be honest i am rather new at this game, and will be contacting the supplier a.s.a.p, to air my (your) worries.
p.s. can my life get much worse, filling up in petrol staion today, a transit drivers , gone scraped along the entire drivers side of my car!!
Did you get his details, if not then the video camera should have it on tape, but be quick sometimes these are erased every 24 hours if there's no 'events' to record.
Got my car back today after some prat drove into it, got the wheels balances in the past week, and it seems to have cured the judder.... some times the solution to things can be the simplest things
Yeah but you still have wheels that have been ground down!!
Have you checked that this isn't going to lead to stress fractures??
Out of interest do you know how much weight was needed to balance the wheels ??
Heavy weights shouldn't be necessary unless there is a problem.
Quote: from dil on 8:50 pm on Oct. 22, 2001[br] ...apparently i got the u.k spec brakes on my car, b'cos they have Supra written over them (is that true)...
As a matter of interest, is this true? (since my J-Spec has these)
I've never compared directly with another J-Spec that I knew had Jap brakes.
Quote: from dil on 8:50 pm on Oct. 22, 2001[br] ...apparently i got the u.k spec brakes on my car, b'cos they have Supra written over them (is that true)...
As a matter of interest, is this true? (since my J-Spec has these)
I've never compared directly with another J-Spec that I knew had Jap brakes.
Quote: from lust2luv on 10:59 am on Nov. 6, 2001[br]Quote: from dil on 8:50 pm on Oct. 22, 2001[br] ...apparently i got the u.k spec brakes on my car, b'cos they have Supra written over them (is that true)...
As a matter of interest, is this true? ^ (since my J-Spec has these)
I've never compared directly with another J-Spec that I knew had Jap brakes.
Some J specs came with a sports pack; 17's and uprated brakes, same as UK.
If you had 16's you will have Jspec brakes which only have Supra logo written on the front caliper.
Yeah i know that still worries me, so i've gotta guy coming down from mille miglia uk to check the wheels out this friday if he gives them the all clear, then i'll finally be able to sleep at night.
p.s. lust from what the other have said i guess i've got this "sports pack", i had originally fitted the 17's and have supra stamped on the front and rear brakes. Have you got a 6 speed gearbox b'cos mine's a real struggle in the cold especially 1st to 2nd
cheers
The manual gearbox can give you sh*t between those two gears especially in 1st and 2nd. You have to give it some slack as the box itself is nigh on indestructable!
Change the oil in the gearbox if you haven't already, as you never know when it was done last. ONLY USE THE CORRECT TOYOTA V-160 OIL...DO NOT USE ANY SUBSTITUE OIL.
Your local toyota garage will get you the right stuff though it will probably take a couple of days to come in. (they will need your chassis/frame no. so have it written down ready.)
If your gearbox does fail (V. UNLIKEY - no matter how agricultural the gear change seems) it has no servicable parts. You will have to buy a new one from Getrag or Toyota that's about £6k down the plug hole!
Look after your gearbox and you'll never need to change it....oh and make sure there is no loose carpet under your clutch pedal as that'll screw the gear change!
Have fun....ps the gearbox oil is about £25 per litre and you'll need at least 2 to fully flush the old oil out.
Laters
Mine's a 5 speed. Haven't had too much problem with 1st-2nd, but if I pull up to lights and stick it in neutral I sometimes have a little trouble engaging first, and just jam it in 2nd instead. I love how reassuringly solid the box feels, I've driven cars where you could be in gear and still waggle the gearstick like you were in neutral!
£6k for a gearbox?! :o
Do you know if that only applies to the 6-speed? When I had my car serviced the Toyota engineer said they could service the 5-speed (is it the same as a Lexus?) but that the 6-speed was a full replacement jobbie.
It sounds likely that the 5-speed is a generic toyota jobbie, whereas the 6-speed was only ever fitted to the TT supra.
Think about the BHP involved - 225 for an NA, you can imagine cars like Celica turbos and things delivering that power. ~300bhp from a TT would require something a lot stronger, hence the bespoke unit from Getrag.
Bearing that in mind, it's likely that there are some serviceable items in what is an "average" toyota gearbox, whereas they would probably not have a clue when it came to an ultra rare 6 speed. Especially as it's so strong that it hardly ever breaks!
I _think_ 6-speed N/As exist too.
I guess it's swings and roundabouts, a more reliable box that's more expensive if things do go wrong.
A 6-speed NA does not exist. unless someone has the money to pay for the conversion - which would be pointless as you could upgrade to and insure a TT with the money it would cost to do it.
The 6-Speed TT uses a Getrag box because Getrag are world renowned for their gearboxes.
The TT manual will handle 800ish HP if applied correctly with a clutch that can take it.
The 5-Speed NA gearbox is probably the same unit used on the GT-4 celica. My mate had a GT-4 celica and it was always a b1tch in 1st and 2nd but then again in the end his 4th gear syncromesh welded itself to something else inside it. :)
...Anyway this is nw way off topic a new thread should be started if you wish to discuss gearboxes as this thread was about judder from wheels...
Im pretty sure the 6speed NA does exist, they had 5 speeds to start with, then a few had 6 speeds and then I think they went back to 5 speeds.
I think Ibrars mate had a 6 speed NA which was a rebuild after a rather interesting excursion off the road by a different UK Supras member. The car went through a fence with associated fence post embedded in the rear screen.
JB
I stand corrected then...but its still feckin pointless having one on an NA. Though I guess it'll improve the MPG of the NA.
They must be rarer than rocking horse poo! :)
Quote: from Alex Holdroyd on 3:10 pm on Nov. 6, 2001[br]
... USE THE CORRECT TOYOTA V-160 OIL...DO NOT USE ANY SUBSTITUE OIL.
... gearbox oil is about £25 per litre ...
Alex,
I tried to get some Toyota V160 oil myself but it is very hard to get hold of. A fellow MKIV owner suggested using the Esso ATF Dexron D-21065 oil, which is much easier to get and a whole lot cheaper. This Esso oil is also mentioned in the Supra manual and is approved by Toyota for use in the Getrag gearbox.
Flavio
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1391042&a=13943948&p=55937533
(Edited by Flavio at 9:28 pm on Nov. 6, 2001)
6 speed N/A's are rare as poo!! and it took me ages to find mine, sixth gear gives a nice cruising rpm on the motorway , and even my n/a although not as brutal and some days i do wish it was an TT has a enough torque to keep it trundling around town in 6th aswell, cant say though whether having a 6th gear improves fuel economy, i only get about 200 miles a tank with 75:25 town:motorway driving
Quote: from Flavio on 8:26 pm on Nov. 6, 2001[br]Quote: from Alex Holdroyd on 3:10 pm on Nov. 6, 2001[br]
... USE THE CORRECT TOYOTA V-160 OIL...DO NOT USE ANY SUBSTITUE OIL.
... gearbox oil is about £25 per litre ...
Alex,
I tried to get some Toyota V160 oil myself but it is very hard to get hold of. A fellow MKIV owner suggested using the Esso ATF Dexron D-21065 oil, which is much easier to get and a whole lot cheaper. This Esso oil is also mentioned in the Supra manual and is approved by Toyota for use in the Getrag gearbox.
Flavio
(Edited by Flavio at 9:28 pm on Nov. 6, 2001)
Why doesn't any one keep me appraised of this changes in policy....;)
6-speed NA's, dextron oil for gearboxes....how much more of my knowledge that I've built for the last year is bollox....
I'm gunna have to fire my researcher.....
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