View Full Version : Induction kits - utter shite, air temps far too high
Ive just checked the temp around the air filter after a 5 mile trip, never booted it in that time and I didnt get stuck in traffic.
59.1c !!!!!
Im on a mission to refit the stock airbox.
I am currently looking to box in / re-position my K&N filter too.
I ve got a K&N at the moment but thinking of a K&N panel filter for the stock airbox. How exactly did you check the temperature???
Engine off, opened the bonnet just with the interior catch and fed probe thru to where the filter is.
Engine was off approx 1 min, would have been hotter still with it running!
I just fitted a turbo blanket in the hope that I can get the temps down a bit, I had steam coming off the bonnet in a queue for a recent event which made me realise how hot it must be getting.
Let me know if you find out how to box it in. Not sure if the stock airfilter flows well enough for a single though..
JB
Branners, I have a super dooper turbo blanket that I can actually hold my hand on while its running. That is only part of the problem.
Following a recent conversation with Chris Wilson and subsequent advice given, I too am in the process of refitting the standard airbox.
Branners, I have a super dooper turbo blanket that I can actually hold my hand on while its running. That is only part of the problem.
I think Dusty has a airbox that K&N can be shielded. Perhaps some additional pipework will be needed. From the pictures of the kit that Dusty sells - it's sits right behind the off-side front headlight, whereas the pictures I've seen of the budget conversion - the K&N filter doesn't quite reach that far.
Or am I talking bollox ?
lol, im one of the lucky few who got a stock airbox when i got my car! Put a K&N Panel straight in...
lol, im one of the lucky few who got a stock airbox when i got my car! Put a K&N Panel straight in...
Ah, but we are talking about single turbo cars here
I think Dusty has a airbox that K&N can be shielded. Perhaps some additional pipework will be needed. From the pictures of the kit that Dusty sells - it's sits right behind the off-side front headlight, whereas the pictures I've seen of the budget conversion - the K&N filter doesn't quite reach that far.
Or am I talking bollox ?
You are not talking bollox. Dusty is due to sell a new air box assembly specifically designed for single turbo converted cars. The trouble is, it has been muted for months and seems no closer now.
If anyone is looking for a stock airbox, I have prices for NEW ones from here, they are not cheap, but they should be a lot cheaper than from Toyota UK. Give me a shout if you want details.
You are not talking bollox. Dusty is due to sell a new air box assembly specifically designed for single turbo converted cars. The trouble is, it has been muted for months and seems no closer now.Is just a case of some additional piping - if you compare the pic on Dusty's website (http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/merchant/catalogpics/mk4/gary/pic05.jpg) and this (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15536) one ?
From Dusty's webpage:
''Max Air'' Air Box for Supras with an Aftermarket Intake Other than the HKS or with a Single Turbo
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Images/spacer.gifThis kit includes the Max Air air box without a precut hole for the intake. This can be made to fit any single turbo or any stock twin Supra with an aftermarket intake that routes into the usual air-box space. THIS KIT ALSO INCLUDES THE HIGHLY RECOMMENDED THERMAL WRAP. Your Price$184.00
If you look at pic 2 http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15536, I am going to extend the pipework and cut a hole into the metal below the filter and drop it down there. It will allow me to get cold air in whilst blocking the hot air from the engine.
Ah interesting idea. Would like to hear how this pans out Colin. :thumbs:
I remember the angry and contemptous posts aimed at me when I 'dared' speak out on the subject.
Better late than never though, eh? lol...
I remember the angry and contemptous posts aimed at me when I 'dared' speak out on the subject.
Better late than never though, eh? lol...
But we are talking about single turbo cars here John, not TT's.
What is the difference then?
What is the difference then?
Your posts were all about changing the stock airbox for aftermarket filters. The single turbo users didnt deliberately do away with the stock air box.
The advantages of the 'cone' filters are grossly overstated in general. As a result people find it preposterous to have a single and retain the stock airbox (which is what I'd do if the SMIC space was not available)
I've had temp probes in the engine bay (datalogging the whole inlet tract) and during summer days the figures can be scary, especially after a couple of good runs.
Exposed cone filters only look good in shows with the bonnet open. They sound cool too.
But the heat and grit they allow inside the engine is scandalous.
I remember the angry and contemptous posts aimed at me when I 'dared' speak out on the subject.
Better late than never though, eh? lol...
Tis nothing new - people have known for ages that the stock airbox is best. All I've done is fit a TRD panel filter.
John out of interest, did you actually check the charge temps during the 5 Mile drive, or just afterwards?
Ive just checked the temp around the air filter after a 5 mile trip, never booted it in that time and I didnt get stuck in traffic.
59.1c !!!!!
Im on a mission to refit the stock airbox.
More than one John on here mate ;)
Will the filter get enough air if you block off the engine bay though - I know we need cold air but surely you can't get enough squeezed through the headlights to fill a single turbo or even the twins?
Will the filter get enough air if you block off the engine bay though - I know we need cold air but surely you can't get enough squeezed through the headlights to fill a single turbo or even the twins?
but if you look at the pic from Dusty's site - you can see the air is supplied from the main fan which is fed along some piping to the airbox - just in the same way as the stock box.
guys there are various solutions to this, but before that I would like to know the temps during actual driving rather than at a stand still. I have data from the purple car, but want to see if John's results confirm this.
What 5 mile drive?
Look at John's first post
If you look at pic 2 http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15536, I am going to extend the pipework and cut a hole into the metal below the filter and drop it down there. It will allow me to get cold air in whilst blocking the hot air from the engine.
Yeah the purple car was set up like this but purely for race/summer purposes.
Edit :BTW CJ my emails to you keep bouncing, not sure if its you or me.
Yeah the purple car was set up like this but purely for race/summer purposes.
That was my one concern - that during the Winter there would be a problem with water.
The advantages of the 'cone' filters are grossly overstated in general. As a result people find it preposterous to have a single and retain the stock airbox
Please find the post where, on this BBS, anyone claims a cone filter is "better" than the stock air box. It's not always our first choice, but the turbo kits generally don't come with another option. Unless you can fab something up yourself you just have to go with what you are given and then make the best of that, via ducting and shielding.
JohnK, I too would love to know what temps you are seeing when in motion, if you can do that and let us know it would be really appreciated.
More than one John on here mate ;)
Too many johnnies lol... :p
(all on a mission, mind you! :limp: )
Even the JGTC Supra has an airbox, now thats a setup I like.
I didnt log whilst driving, im on nights now so I wont get a chance for a while, but next time I get a chance I will do.
The only reason I checked was that I noticed a hot area on the bonnet above the air filter area after a drive.
Also worth noting is that im still using the stock SMIC so inlet temps are very important to me.
I didnt log whilst driving, im on nights now so I wont get a chance for a while, but next time I get a chance I will do.
The only reason I checked was that I noticed a hot area on the bonnet above the air filter area after a drive.
Also worth noting is that im still using the stock SMIC so inlet temps are very important to me.
OK John, if you get a chance to try that would be great. I use a K probe thermometer and have some special wire sensors which slip inside the silicone, its the easiest way I have found so far, without installing a permanent sensor.
If you guys do datalogging in the supra bay, maybe you could share the results here.
I, for one, would be interested.
chiefvinso
27-06-05, 12:10
Just out of curiosity, wouldnt it be necessary to know what the intake temp is towards the plenum chamber after its gone through an intercooler? It would surely be cooler then? I cant see why all aftermarket filters would be shit, in traffic yes but when you are driving the temp is bound to come down and more if you have a good intercooler?
I am currently looking to box in / re-position my K&N filter too.
Some pic's to help you ?
Nice one Peter.
Does it have a front-facing intake a-la-stock, or does it face the SMIC space?
Ok I have some temps while car is in motion.
All gained from a probe next to the filter, ambient 26c.
While moving at 30+mph temps are in the region of 35 to 40c. As soon as you stop it rapidly increases to around 60c and then takes a fair while once moving to go back to 35 - 40.
Town driving the temp rarely dips below 50c.
Also heat is held for a long time under the bonnet while the engine is off (white car in the sun if that makes a difference). Parked the car with temp around 60, was still in the low 50's when I came back an hour later.
Never did I stop for longer than a few mins, I would imaging things would get a lot hotter if I did.
I am in the process of building an insulated airbox that uses the stock feeds, I will get more temps when it is done.
Nice work John....hmmm think I'll go drill a big hole in the filler plate ;)
...While moving at 30+mph temps are in the region of 35 to 40c. As soon as you stop it rapidly increases to around 60c and then takes a fair while once moving to go back to 35 - 40.
Town driving the temp rarely dips below 50c.
This is typical, when I datalogged under the Calibra's bonnet it was a similar story.
16C higher inlet temps on average are bad news for performance and reliability, especially since some of that will go through the i/c and heatsoak it even more.
For those with FMICs this extra heat will be dumped on the fins of the aircon condenser and the coolant rad.
The worst is that the turbo compressor will start cavitating earlier. (the pressure graphs only account for a low ambient intake temp)
In the winter it's nowhere near as bad though.
You may find some of this interesting
http://planetsoarer.com/#Intakes:
Alright, I have a NA with a K&N conical filter. The piping did get pretty hot after a long trip. I did two things to cool my intake. First I changed to a TRD style hood which I must say lowered underhood temperatures dramatically. The second thing I did which is helping was I insulated the aluminum tubing with silicone electric tape. It may lookn like crap but it does lower your intake temperatures. I plan on doing a header wrap in the near future to further lower temperatures. I live in Mississippi and in the summer the temperatures can really shoot up there so if it works for me I could work for anyone else with the same problem.
I have almost completed my cold air box, I will log some temnps when I can.
It would be interesting to know the temps inside a stock airbox if anyone has the inclination.
But Why ?
The direct cold feed supply is below - is this not just going to suck hot air in ?
The cold air feed is only effective when the engine has no choice but to suck air through it.
Drilling holes on the airbox makes it much easier to draw air from there, rather than use the stock feeds.
Still, this is nowhere near as bad as an exposed cone filter situation...
Peter - I'm unsure what you mean?
The box I have built seals off the filter from the engine bay and should only get the cold air from the feed under the headlight and the one over the fan.
Im only doing this as the stock box will not fit any more.
I have fitted the airbox tonight. It is very crude and very much function over form but it should serve its purpose, I have also wrapped my downpipe.
Its far from perfect and there are still some gaps to fill up but hopefully tomorrow I will have a chance to measure some temps.
http://www.efter-stormen.net/airbox1.jpg
http://www.efter-stormen.net/airbox2.jpg
http://www.efter-stormen.net/wrap.jpg
Looks nice John, certainly better than being fully exposed.
The thermal wrapping should keep underbonnet temps down too. :cool:
The inside of the airbox is insulated with the same material as my turbo blanket is made of, glassed into place. So it should provide a good thermal barrier.
Right some intial results from the airbox, although please note it is NOT completely sealed - yet.
Temps seem to be kept to around 5c above ambient and it takes a lot longer to heat up in traffic.
However it does still heat up to around 50c when stopped in traffic for a long time or when stopped for <30 mins.
The only problem I have found so far, is that it seems to take longer to cool down once moving.
I will seal the box up more tightly when I get the chance and see what improvment that makes.
Prof. Monkey
22-07-05, 19:50
Why are you not measuring the temperature on the move? I got a little thermometer off ebay, that cost a few quid and has a probe on a wire that can fed into the engine bay.
Obviously as a scientist, I would look at both temperatures at standstill and whilst running, when colder more dense air is being sourced from outside.
I bought a grille from www.grille-tech.com
Cost me £40.00 for the standard supra one, fits with some zip-ties (which is only temporary whilst I source some long bolts)
I then spent £15.00 and bought a pipercross, cold air feed, from ebay - which includes the intake trumpets. Drilled holes in them and fitted them to the grille and offered the whole thing up: after a bit of faffing about it all fitted well.
Now then, as I am using an N/A supra all the plastic work was removed (where you would normally have intercooler pipes) I fed the flexi-pipe into the engine bay.
There has been a change in performance, I have been using the Injen Intake for a while so I could justify the improvement. The throttle is a little snappier and it seems to pull better.
:rolleyes:
I AM measuring the temp on the move.
Also intake temp isnt as critical on an NA and I would also venture to say that the under bonnet temps dont get as high on a NA.
I also aim to prove that a sealed airbox is the only way to go and that bits of pipe, so called cold air feeds, are as good as useless.
Prof. Monkey
22-07-05, 22:08
Interested to see what your findings uncover...
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