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mellonman
21-01-19, 17:36
Just dawned on me that I think I would have preferred it if they would have started just remaking the MKIV with modern tech IE bb Sequential turbos, new ecu, new traction control, better weight distribution, touch screen. probably everything that's in the MKV just in the MKIV instead of making the MKV.

I expect a lot of retro cars reproduced would sell like hot cakes with all the mod cons, remember as a kid that car you loved but couldnt afford now 15-20 years latter you have the money but the cars are rust buckets.

whats everyones thoughts ?

Gaz6002
21-01-19, 17:41
I'd like to see a Mk4 with Lexus LC500h hybrid power. But I'd prefer it with the V8, which sort of defeats the object as I'd be just as happy with the 2JZ.

nolizma
21-01-19, 17:48
There is lots of new legislation/safety requirements old cars don't meet unfortunately.

mellonman
21-01-19, 17:51
There is lots of new legislation/safety requirements old cars don't meet unfortunately.

Would it be hard to get the MKIV through the REGS with all the mod cons ?

Simon_RD
21-01-19, 20:00
If the idea was to have Toyota simply restart MkIV production in volume, its impossible today for a mountain of reasons.
The first being a MkIV fails in a ton of modern standards. Even if you find solutions to that vast array of very complex standardisation problems (which were the cause of its production demise), that rework would probably cost more than the new design with BMW. I wish to god it was possible to restart the JZA80 production, but it would be just be too monstrously big a task, and terribly cost ineffective for Toyota, hence the MkV exists today.

However if your talking low volume production and licenced by Toyota, then its definitely achievable, with the biggest problem being actual production. Other repro's have done exactly the same thing, just look at the various repo's of GT40's E-types, Cobras, Etc, Etc. Although the task of building a brand new, exact replica JZA80 from the ground up (going so far as things like ecu and engine block production) would be a monumental nightmare, since its a much more complex car to replicate than those older cars. The end result would be an easy 7+ zero's price figure cost per car.

Would love to see someone do it though. A completely brand new 2023 (circa 1993) Toyota Supra RZ 6 Speed, fresh off the production factory floor. I'm sure at auction it would make that $2.1million A90 look like chump change.

el_bandido
21-01-19, 20:00
Yes. The whole car would end up being different because of the crash safety regs, the 2j would never get through emissions.

mellonman
21-01-19, 21:07
how do caterum 7 do it they surely cant meet the crash test regs and such, surely Toyota could do a kit like the 7 most of us have had our supras in bits and can handle a spanner or have the gazoo brand it or have a company build the kit for you like SRD, whifbitz , plus you could start with your spec list ie big single , TT, N/A.

im not just saying the mkiv but every iconic 80's 90's cars , rs escort , rs seira , mk1 mexico , RX7 , GTR's , reault 5 , cleo v6 , z3 m coupe , F40, vw camper mk1, beatle ect,ect

what do these companies do with their mods and casting equipment after they have been finished with ? the plan or data sheet must be on record so you could make a new mold and start production im not saying replica im saying a actual reproduction with original parts backed by the original manufacturer.

I know its a pipe dream but I seriously think there is a market for it, saying that though 60k for a MKIV when new is pretty steep and that's when it was mass produced say I could do it for 100k I don't think I would sell many :cry: I thought it was a good idea to until the maths kicked in :angry:

el_bandido
21-01-19, 21:17
Caterham probably don't meet the volume requirements to be subject to the same rules as a mass manufacturer. It would be different for Toyota, they would have to release the MKIV rehash under a different company.

mellonman
21-01-19, 21:30
Caterham probably don't meet the volume requirements to be subject to the same rules as a mass manufacturer. It would be different for Toyota, they would have to release the MKIV rehash under a different company.

Gazoo . Mr T if you are watching it's just a thought
Ooowh they should the gt2000

drift_bear
21-01-19, 21:55
Top secret took an R32 GTR and put in the engine, transmission and full interior from an R35 GTR. It’s a work of art but took them ages iirc, was built for the auto salon the other week

nolizma
21-01-19, 22:04
Its hugely expensive. especially if you want to reproduce the same way they did it originally. Welding robots, production line, hugely expensive tools to make a single part. Imagine that to just design and build one tool (mould) that would run on an injection moulding press to produce lets say an interior plastic piece, it costs millions. This does not include the cost of the press or running the damn thing.
Granted the design is already there but it doesn't make any sense financially. Never mind emission regulations, crash safety regulations, pedestrian safety regulations.. the list goes on.

My prediction is that in the future, the 3D printing technology will advance so much that people will be able to print brand new cars of the past at home. By that time though the supra will probably be the equivalent of a horse carriage now.

Pete
21-01-19, 22:12
how do caterum 7

Both Caterham and Westfield use EC SSTA (European Small Scale Type Approval)
The production limit for both cars and light vans / light trucks is 1000 per type each year in the whole of the EU.

Simon_RD
21-01-19, 22:18
Certain vehicle types by construction and or Low volume manufactures can be given exceptions, and or aren't subject to the same standards for certain checks and tests.
For example, You cant expect a brand new exact replica of an E-type to have Airbags, ABS and ESP - its falls under some kind of a modified or reconstructed classic car classification. Those owners would certainly be better placed to tell us exactly how it works.
Caterham are obviously eligible to these exempt or altered classifications. Same goes for some hypercars. If your only making 10 examples a year, and each are worth 5 million, its generally considered unfair to be asked to destroy approx 10% of their companies asset value in a crash test. If you make 5000 of them different story of course.

A great example is when ford gambled on being able to make its Mustang exempt from crash testing and inspections on release to the UK. They bizarrely thought that somehow either by volume, construction or some other way the mustang wouldn't get NCAP safety and crash tested here, so they didn't bother building the UK version with all the safety aspects that went into the US and other versions. Of course, they were wrong, and the 2016 UK version of the ford mustang was tested and demonstrated to be inherently dangerous as a result. - https://www.driving.co.uk/news/ford-fails-to-fit-british-mustangs-with-life-saving-equipment-of-american-models/


On another note, I've always wondered what happend to the production equipment that built the JZA80 Supra. The factory is still in use, but there must have a been a huge amount of supra specific production gear that suddenly had no purpose overnight. Things like the dies, presses, moulds, etc , etc. Did Toyota just shove them out back when production ended? somehow re-purpose them? break them down and sell them off for scrap? Did any employees run off with souvenirs?(is there some kid in Toyota City, who is looking at his dads old engine mould in the garage, not realizing it was the origin of he 2jz?)

muckyman
22-01-19, 12:40
A Singer Supra would be very interesting......

Scooter
22-01-19, 12:44
Top secret took an R32 GTR and put in the engine, transmission and full interior from an R35 GTR. Itís a work of art but took them ages iirc, was built for the auto salon the other week

At least in the end the new engine was a worthy upgrade :taped:

James
22-01-19, 21:22
Top secret took an R32 GTR and put in the engine, transmission and full interior from an R35 GTR. It’s a work of art but took them ages iirc, was built for the auto salon the other week

That was at the last TAS (won best car) - not just this one :)

el_bandido
23-01-19, 01:28
I always thought a V12 turbo that could run on one bank when pootling about would be cool for a Supra. Coupled with an 8 speed that would probably be quite a versatile car.

Gaz6002
23-01-19, 12:16
I always thought a V12 turbo that could run on one bank when pootling about would be cool for a Supra. Coupled with an 8 speed that would probably be quite a versatile car.

Interesting thought, but a nightmare to engineer. You'd need to factor in the ability to shut down both banks so you don't get uneven wear, and a management system to switch between them. The R8's V10, for example, only does this in the higher gears - presumably because it would require far more precision at lower speeds in order to work seamlessly. If Audi can't do it...

el_bandido
23-01-19, 13:40
The Toyota V12 shuts down one bank on the standard ECU. That's what got me thinking about it.

Gaz6002
23-01-19, 13:49
The Toyota V12 shuts down one bank on the standard ECU. That's what got me thinking about it.

Just one bank, or can it shut both down? I didn't know that.

el_bandido
23-01-19, 13:53
It's capable of shutting down either if it detects an error, it's got two ECUs from the factory.

Jellybean
23-01-19, 14:14
I'd be happy if they just started a heritage program like Nissan , so we have access to parts

Mazda do a nice Factory restore on the Mx5
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a23487935/first-factory-restored-mazda-mx-5-miata/

Gaz6002
23-01-19, 15:26
It's capable of shutting down either if it detects an error, it's got two ECUs from the factory.

Ace. Must do some reading up on that motor. Cheers.

mellonman
23-01-19, 19:00
I'd be happy if they just started a heritage program like Nissan , so we have access to parts

Mazda do a nice Factory restore on the Mx5
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a23487935/first-factory-restored-mazda-mx-5-miata/

So companies must still keep their old equipment to do things like this. Good to see.