Wonga's NA-5 Build Thread

I suppose it's about time I start logging and updating my progress.

Thanks again to everybody who offered input and answers to my thousands of questions before buying this car (Scooter, Hellboy, Mike2jz, j_jza80, Chris Wilson, Annabella, Shippers and a couple more) it was really appreciated.

So a month ago I picked up a very low mileage (will never know if it's legitimate) '96 NA5. It had a few problems but the owner let me have it for a price that acknowledged it would immediately need some expensive work done. Cosmetically it's exactly what I wanted, subtle but not too subtle.

The first immediate problem was a loud rattling noise that occurred under load, after taking it to Adam at M-Tech/Longlife Westbury he (and Scooter on here) diagnosed it as an exhaust leak so I had a good excuse to buy a full stainless system. I opted to leave the first cat in place due to noise concerns and went with a 2.5" single pipe. She also underwent a Dyno (220hp if I remember), full service, compression test, suspension adjustment (it was way too low), new rocker cover gasket and various little bits and bobs.

So after 3 long weeks I picked her up and drove her across the country. Apart from a million rattles which I've started ironing out I'm very pleased. It's not as quick as I'd hoped but there's plenty of time for that, the previous owner's paint-job is orangey in parts, the interior could do with some paint/refreshing but other than that very happy!

I'm hesitant to pour too much money into it as the "NA-TT or buy a different Supra" argument seems heavily weighted towards the latter, but hopefully this build should be a long journey of small improvements anybody could make. It takes a lot of the fun out of improving a car knowing you'll be selling it in 9 months so for the time being it'll be nice to clean her up and learn a lot in the process. Either way, I adore how it looks and this feels like a great first step into Supra ownership.

Current List

Alloy Refurb

Sound system install (there currently isn't one)

HID Conversion (done)

Dash carbon wrap (don't really have somewhere I can paint and the current state is dreadful)

Paint correction detail

Side repeater change (done)

Sound deadening (in progress)

LS400 Brake conversion (sourcing parts)

Clutch replacement as current one is slipping, might be a good time to put a Stage 3 in for the future.

Steering wheel (It has some Momo wheel but I like the Celica wheel and really should have an airbag), gotta source the adapter first though.

Turbo (?) Undecided, I paid so little for this and will be doing so much of the minor work myself, I'll need to do a lot of thinking about which route I go down, but I definitely won't be satisfied with this being NA for more than a year. Any/all input on the turbo subject would be appreciated. Would the 2.5" exhaust I just fitted need ripping out for a 3" one?

Anyway, here she is!

Looks very clean mate, subscribing for updates

Glad it's all up and running after the minor teething problems.

You have to try and be clear and honest with yourself on your power goals and budget constraints, ie will 350bhp be ok can you get hold of an extra £10K in a year or so, or be willing to finance a manual TT?

what are your power goals?

Looks like a nice base

2.5" might be a bit small if you decide to go NA-T. I'd recommend a 3 or 4" exhaust. And yes, get the clutch future proofed. That's how my excuse to chase power started!

You have to try and be clear and honest with yourself on your power goals and budget constraints, ie will 350bhp be ok can you get hold of an extra £10K in a year or so, or be willing to finance a manual TT?

what are your power goals?

I honestly don't know. I think 350 would be more than enough for a daily, but would it ruin resellabilty? I have no figures to go on as to what an NA-TT sells for but I can't imagine it's much. Bit of a shame as the W58 and TT combo could probably be the 'cheapest' route to a fast manual Supra (I'd personally take a swapped TT5 over a TT-Auto but can see why it'd scare people off). A TT swap is what, 4-5k? Add that to the 5.5k it's cost to get here already and that's a lot of fun for the money! Put bluntly, if this car was 350bhp with a W58 would I consider it "finished"? Yes.

Decisions decisions.......

Looks like a nice base

 

2.5" might be a bit small if you decide to go NA-T. I'd recommend a 3 or 4" exhaust. And yes, get the clutch future proofed. That's how my excuse to chase power started!

Then this has already become one of the many things I don't want to splash on, only to have to replace if I stick a snail on it. That said, surely the .5" would only release 10-15 bhp max, that would hardly be worth spending another £1k on.

Nice example fella!

I honestly don't know. I think 350 would be more than enough for a daily, but would it ruin resellabilty? I have no figures to go on as to what an NA-TT sells for but I can't imagine it's much. Bit of a shame as the W58 and TT combo could probably be the 'cheapest' route to a fast manual Supra (I'd personally take a swapped TT5 over a TT-Auto but can see why it'd scare people off). A TT swap is what, 4-5k? Add that to the 5.5k it's cost to get here already and that's a lot of fun for the money! Put bluntly, if this car was 350bhp with a W58 would I consider it "finished"? Yes.

 

Decisions decisions.......

 

 

 

Then this has already become one of the many things I don't want to splash on, only to have to replace if I stick a snail on it. That said, surely the .5" would only release 10-15 bhp max, that would hardly be worth spending another £1k on.

So long as the 2.5'' is straight through when you go turbo, then it should be fine for a smaller responsive turbo.

Only need to upgrade when the volume coming in is greater then what can be pushed out.

Put bluntly, if this car was 350bhp with a W58 would I consider it "finished"? Yes.

I would consider that W58 finished unless you drive it like miss daisy

If 350bhp is going to be ok (I think it is really for a nice road car) then you can go one of two ways, as the W58 "should" survive it.

NA-T basic one with a same head gasket, injectors etc, so less serious messing about, been done a fair amount by various people, but higher labour, mapping issues non stock parts.

TT engine swap, getting harder to find these days (sometimes an unknown quantity/risk) but pretty much plug and play ie all stock bits, just not a VIN matching genuine from the factory setup at the end of it.

I wouldn't worry too much about price after, either way if nicely done and setup it'll be everything (and maybe more) than a stock 16K TT6 will be to drive on the road so has to command a few K more than any manual NA, so you'll get a fair chunk of your money back. Only thing is the gearbox really, the temptation will be there to push it, replacements are getting more rare and expensive and 6 speed manuals are very expensive, you will be taking a chance with it.....

Currently in the process of hesitantly wrapping the dash in carbon, slightly unsure though as I've always considered it a bit tacky. Genuine carbon would be "permissable" but I think it's too shiney, wraps have a matte-ish effect which looks a lot nicer IMO. If it looks a bit dodgy I guess I'll have to paint it as it's currently in a terrible state.

Tidy looking supra enjoy

Nice looking Supra, 350 is achievable looking on here, with what you've already got.

WOW that is a shiney paint job:)

A long weekend of fighting with the stereo and very little progress has been made. It appears the whole wiring setup has been pulled apart by the previous owner so will have to start from scratch.

Unfortunately doing this in the daylight is only an option on weekends as it's pitch black by the time I get home. Looks like it's going to have to be done by a professional.

Spent the nights carbon wrapping the dash, not sure how I feel about the results but it's better than than the worn-plastic from before. A nice paint-job or hydrodip will be on the cards early next year, but here's how it looks.

Made some decisions on the turbo situation. For various reasons I won't be selling this and buying a TT, it dyno'd well with just a decat so the engine is in very good shape, also happy with the exterior and can't be dealing with the Supra market again.

So I'll either be building a used NA-T with upmarket components or buying a full kit (in used condition) from a forum member. I can't be doing with a cheap new kit as by all accounts it's a rocky road, would rather use quality components but just buy them second hand. Had considered the Whifbitz NA-T kit but £4,000+ just hurts too much. There will be a meticulous planning process behind all components and will hopefully getting a shopping list up soon for you lovely people to critique

350-400 is the goal, but would probably build with 500-600 in mind (at least in the more hefty components), for when the W58 has been changed. To be clear, this isn't going to be a 500-600bhp build, I just don't like the idea of sticking in very expensive parts that only limit my options in the future.

I don't see many (or any for that matter) GTE's for sale at the moment, and my understanding is that above 400bhp you need to change much of the same stuff as you would a GE. Additionally, there's a lot of minor-but-oh-so-annoying adjustments that need to be made to fit. For a bolt-on alternative I get it's the best option, but I'm in this for the long-haul and think it'd be much cheaper to stick with what I've got, and know runs well.

If somebody can make a really good argument for me to just save and buy a GTE in full and get it swapped, please let me know. I've poured over 100's of threads discussing this but most are very dated, it seems since then turbo kits have come down a lot in price, while GTE's have gone up in price (which would make sense).

The budget is looking to be around £2,300 for just the NA-T kit, however the full project will likely stretch to £4,000. Since I can't do this myself I'm inclined to really go to town and have just about everything else done while the engine is out. The only catch is everything will be planned prior and all parts accumulated on the cheap. I could probably fit the XS power (or similar) kit for less than £1800 myself, but for an extra £500 ish sourcing a superior (used) manifold/wastegate/turbo/intercooler it seems like a no-brainer.

Would love to hear any forwarnings/thoughts on the plan, but will be posting a shopping list shortly which will go into a bit more detail.

A long weekend of fighting with the stereo and very little progress has been made. It appears the whole wiring setup has been pulled apart by the previous owner so will have to start from scratch.

 

Unfortunately doing this in the daylight is only an option on weekends as it's pitch black by the time I get home. Looks like it's going to have to be done by a professional.

 

Spent the nights carbon wrapping the dash, not sure how I feel about the results but it's better than than the worn-plastic from before. A nice paint-job or hydrodip will be on the cards early next year, but here's how it looks. [ATTACH=CONFIG]216033[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]216034[/ATTACH]

 

Also put in a standard leather gaiter (dodgy build-quality as that velcro strap at the top looks ridiculous). Bought a TRD gear-knob but sadly looks awful so won't be getting fitted. In hindsight I think it's meant to be fitted into an auto...

 

Made some decisions on the turbo situation. I will be turboing this car, I've already put £1,500 into it and can't be dealing with navigating the Supra-market again or any time in the near future.

 

I will be happy with 350-400whp, but would probably build with 500 in mind, and dial it down until the W58 has been changed.

 

So now for the how. I don't see many (or any for that matter) GTE's for sale at the moment, and my understanding is that past 400bhp you need to change the same stuff as you would a GE. Additionally, there's a lot of minor-but-oh-so-annoying adjustments that need to be made to fit it.

 

If somebody can make a really good argument for me to just save and buy a GTE in full and get it swapped, please let me know.

 

The current plan is to buy used, either a full kit or build it slowly using ebay/forums. I'm going to be posting in technical about this, but I genuinely don't see any immediate reason this couldn't be done for less than £2,500.

The GTE swap is about as easy as it's going to get when it comes to transplanting an engine and driving away the same day. Assuming you have the engine loom and ecu in good order.

The NA-T swap is easy enough to fit all the hardware within the space of a weekend, if the kit is of good quality. However you are sacrificing the reliability of the stock ECU tune for a standalone or even worse a piggyback. Either will have some growing pains and almost certainly will require troubleshooting if the car develops a problem. Plus you will be relying on the tune to be of a high level in order to give you the power you want. (hint: good tuners aren't cheap)

Also if I were you I would get a full diagnosis made on your current engine to check compression, leak levels, valve clearances etc before you go anywhere near trying to get 500hp out of it. If the engine is unhealthy then you will give it a quicker death by shoving boost down it's throat trying to make that power.

As much as I love the 2JZGE, there is a reason hardly anyone has a completely stock one making 500whp with a bolt on kit. Those who do have nicely built GE's making near 500 or more have spent a lot more than £2'500.

The GTE swap is about as easy as it's going to get when it comes to transplanting an engine and driving away the same day. Assuming you have the engine loom and ecu in good order.

 

The NA-T swap is easy enough to fit all the hardware within the space of a weekend, if the kit is of good quality. However you are sacrificing the reliability of the stock ECU tune for a standalone or even worse a piggyback. Either will have some growing pains and almost certainly will require troubleshooting if the car develops a problem. Plus you will be relying on the tune to be of a high level in order to give you the power you want. (hint: good tuners aren't cheap)

 

Also if I were you I would get a full diagnosis made on your current engine to check compression, leak levels, valve clearances etc before you go anywhere near trying to get 500hp out of it. If the engine is unhealthy then you will give it a quicker death by shoving boost down it's throat trying to make that power.

 

As much as I love the 2JZGE, there is a reason hardly anyone has a completely stock one making 500whp with a bolt on kit. Those who do have nicely built GE's making near 500 or more have spent a lot more than £2'500.

Thanks Mike, I made a pretty huge edit after posting this, and it seems you caught the initial post before the edit. I'm kinda glad though as you've highlighted everything I thought to re-write! The diagnostic I got a few weeks ago showed no issues and 220whp (which I think on a stock GE with just a decat surely suggests the engine is in damn good shape).

I'll need a bit more info to go off regarding the prices of GTE's but you have convinced me to re-open the case for it.

Wasn't aware of the ECU tune being thrown off, I thought buying an emanage blue and piggybacking with a good tuner wouldn't yield any issues, if this is really just a recipe for minor headaches and constant little niggles then I've got some more reading to do on this front.

Be interesting to see just what you manage to achieve. Most tuners won't touch a blue, few will even bother with the ultimate either. Every one seems to be on the Link bandwagon at the moment so think about a Link Atom.

Be interesting to see just what you manage to achieve.

A blown W58 and unhappy GE with my luck.

Thanks Mike, I made a pretty huge edit after posting this, and it seems you caught the initial post before the edit. I'm kinda glad though as you've highlighted everything I thought to re-write! The diagnostic I got a few weeks ago showed no issues and 220whp (which I think on a stock GE with just a decat surely suggests the engine is in damn good shape).

 

I'll need a bit more info to go off regarding the prices of GTE's but you have convinced me to re-open the case for it.

 

Wasn't aware of the ECU tune being thrown off, I thought buying an emanage blue and piggybacking with a good tuner wouldn't be any issues, if this is really just a recipe for minor headaches and constant little niggles then I've got some more reading to do on this front.

What were the results of your diagnostics?

What were the results of your diagnostics?

I'm not sure if I should have got a printout or something as I've never had this done, but the compression test didn't bring up any issues, and few "missing" horses were the upshot of the phonecall. The dips in the dyno graph were put down to the slipping clutch. Also worth noting the odometer is at 29,000. While the validity of this is questionable (despite being consistent from at least 2006), if I absolutely had to sell, it'd be a shame to make this lovely low number completely redundant.

You can get an indication of the whether the mileage is accurate by the condition of things like the indicator and wiper stalls, The climate buttons etc.

Equally, it seems an unusually low number of it is clocked. Most would use a more conservative and convincing figure. It could also be a faulty counter.

Perhaps had new clocks at some point? Alternatively, it could have had an engine rebuild/ replacement at some point, and the clock was reset, although this is very poor practice as the mileage reflects much more than the engines condition.

You can get an indication of the whether the mileage is accurate by the condition of things like the indicator and wiper stalls, The climate buttons etc.

 

Equally, it seems an unusually low number of it is clocked. Most would use a more conservative and convincing figure. It could also be a faulty counter.

 

Perhaps had new clocks at some point? Alternatively, it could have had an engine rebuild/ replacement at some point, and the clock was reset, although this is very poor practice as the mileage reflects much more than the engines condition.

The only explanation I have is that it was swiped to 0 on import in 2002. As of 2006 it had 18,000 miles which is consistent with 4k miles per year and after 2006 the incredibly low usage is documented. Aside from the clutch slipping I can't spot anything that screams heavy use apart from the gearknob (which apparently could be sunlight).

I would check your odometer hasn't had the LED lines cut to remove the last digit.

So it's been a while since I've done anything to this thread, having recently quit my job and landed 1 month's gardening leave I thought this would be the best chance I'll get to start going about some work on the car.

Disclaimer alert, I am not exaggerating when I say I've never wrenched something in a car before in my life. Read on at your peril!

So the list of things to do this month-

Refurbish Alloys

Clean o2 sensors

Clean/polish/(paint)? Heatshield

Wirebrush clean Intake Manifold

Fix broken HID problem and indicators

Restore headlights/paint inserts black

Touch up paint all-round various stonechips

Fit new steering wheel

Respray or re-wrap interior panels, all currently sanded ready for paint but I'm not sure I trust myself to get it right and the idea of re-sanding them isn't nice

Full detail upon completion

Here's a general dump of various progress/stages of completion photos.

Nasty corrosion on wheels, not sure what's caused the lacquer to get so ruined, was fine when I bought it!

Prior to being lemon-dipped overnight (this guide made this a dream job, can't thank enough - http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?152779-How-to-Clean-O2-sensors-in-NA)

A very horrible heat shield ready to be attacked in the bath...

After sanding corrosion off wheels

After wirebrushing and cleaning bay

Gen 7 Celica Wheel

if you plan to remove it soak those heatshield bolts in penetrating fluid, wire brush the tops etc as the studs can shear.