Best Brake Kit? (Experiences)

Those with some kind of experience with bigger brake setups, which 356mm Setup have you found to be the best?

Opinions welcome too.

Lee of SRD fame recommended the ksport front and back kit to me a few weeks ago. Said the callipers are monoblocks of good quality now.

Lexus LS600/460 brakes. The fronts are 358mm 4pots MonoBlocks and rear are 335mm 2pot MonoBlocks. Absolutely amazing brakes. I have them as standard on my Lexus LS460 Sports but ive also just bought another set from japan for my Aristo MK2.

On the other hand ive used a full KSport setup too. 356mm 8pots front and 330mm 6pots rears and they were very good too. Very litte fade and pull your face off stopping power. But the calipers weren't monoblock.

But the calipers weren't monoblock.

This changed about 2 years ago, see here

UK FTW

But in all seriousness, AP Racing or Brembo GTR setup surely?

This changed about 2 years ago, see here

Yeah i seen that. They look great. I really liked the Ksport better that UK spec set up imo.

Thats why ive gone for the Lexus LS600 setup since its OEM reliability and build quality plus they are huge.

Does anyone know the difference in hub to caliper clearance between K-Sport and UK spec brakes? My wheels foul the UK calipers so I have to run a 3mm spacer to clear them.

Those with some kind of experience with bigger brake setups, which 356mm Setup have you found to be the best?

 

Opinions welcome too.

I have the Greddy Big Brake Kit^6 pot fronts & 4 pot Rears, the front discs are 355mm.

Very good brakes but looking back the high price is only cause of the brand.

I run the Brembo mono 6 pot fronts and 4 pot rears, not cheap, but good.

I have the Greddy Big Brake Kit^6 pot fronts & 4 pot Rears, the front discs are 355mm.

 

Very good brakes but looking back the high price is only cause of the brand.

The big price is because they are made by Alcon, which are among the best of the brake manufacturers

I have a full set of Alcon brakes on my car. They are quite impressive.

Worth reading this thread:

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php

Link does not work.

I ordered Stop Tech originally. The 'Trophy' but had issues with delivery so now looking at possibly these Brembo's http://www.larkspeed.com/shopper/i/37GT8019A/Toyota-Supra-Brembo-Front-Brake-Conversion-Kit-6-Pot-Calipers

Some detail from Chris , Alcon, Ap Racing and Brembo are considered the top brands

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?318433-Best-brake-upgrade-for-a-Supra/page2&highlight=Brembo+brakes

Brake upgrades can set out to try to achieve several objectives.

The commonest are to increase resistance to fade and or increase

braking effort for a given pedal effort. IE, the pads are

pushed against the discs harder for a given pedal effort than

before the upgrade, or the brakes will stop the car from 100 MPH,

hard, for more times before fade sets in, than previously. The feel

from the pedal, that almost intangible quality, can also be addressed

and sometimes improved upon by brake size, or pad material changes, or

brake flexi hose upgrades to something less squashy than rubber.

It's easy to get carried away by the thought of brake upgrades.

The limitation in most cars as to how short a distance they can

stop in is tyre friction. Leaving aside pedal feedback, and fade,

it is almost certain that a Supra on stock Jap spec brakes will

stop in just as short a distance as one with an AP six pot kit on

it, a Brembo kit, Pauls KAD kit, or whatever. It may not feel to

the driver that it does, but usually such is the case if you just

nail the pedal as hard as you can. The fancy kits may *FEEL* to

stop the car faster, due to less pedal effort, and a better bite,

but in reality, if you hit the pedal as hard as you can with stock

Jap spec brakes, UK spec brakes, AP kit, KAD, whatever, the car

will stop in the same distance. Repeat this test 10 times and stock

Jap brakes may be on fire and long since faded, or the fluid boiled,

UK ones may be very hot and bothered, but the upgraded ones will

probably still be working within pad, disc and brake fluid temp

limits. Add in the intangible "feel" factor, and a desire to brake

as hard as possible, using as little skill as possible, but WITHOUT

relying on the ABS to take over, and for sure a well set up brake

upgrade may well allow more finesse.

Herein though lies the rub.

Upgrade only the fronts and the brake balance of the stock car may

well be compromised. Let's take stock brakes. You press smoothly on

the brake pedal with (say) 50 pounds force. The car stops fine. 70

pounds, the fronts are just beginning to lock (car makers ALWAYS aim

for the fronts to lock first, as rear wheel lock makes the car very

unstable and liable to swap ends). The rears are doing as much work

as the brake engineers deemed safe to prevent premature rear lock up.

The ABS cuts in, and maximum retardation has been reached. Now, take

a car with big front discs and calipers. Only 40 pounds pressure now

gives a smooth, lock free and powerful retardation. 50 pounds and the

new, more powerful, (for the same pedal pressure), fronts are locking.

The ABS cuts in. BUT, and this is the crux, those original rear

calipers and discs are still well below the caliper pressure where

they are able to achieve maximum retardation without fear of the

rears locking.

In other words the FRONT brakes are doing TOO MUCH work, albeit without

breaking into a sweat, and the rears are, to exaggerate a bit,

just along for the ride. The BEST scenario is to upgrade front AND

rear brakes, carefully ensuring the original balance of effort at any

given brake pedal pressure remains as designed, but that the more efficient

front AND rear brakes stay cooler for more hard stops, and that old

intangible "feel" from the brake pedal is improved, at lower rates of

driver effort on the pedal. The latter may or may not be good or

desirable, and can be engineered out by changing BOTH front and rear

caliper piston sizes, or pad areas. In a race car the balance would

be adjustable via 2 brake master cylinders, with a driver selectable

change in mechanical leverage effort between front and rear brake circuits,

one cylinder operating the front brake calipers, the other the rear. This

can also be achieved on road cars, but to do so is usually complex and

expensive, especially if ABS and brake circuit failure safeguards are to be

maintained. It is far easier to calculate the caliper and disc sizes, along with

pad area and compound to achieve this, as near as available off the

shelf equipment will allow.

Caveat. I said before makers engineer more effort on the front brakes to

encourage straight line stopping if the tyres are locked up . They err on

the excessive side, as, in the wet, the rear tyres can take a lot more

braking effort than in the dry, due to less weight transfer onto the front

tyres, as they will lock before as much weight is transferred when the grip

of the road surface is reduced. So adding yet more front brake effort worsens

this existing imbalance, especially in the wet. If it were not for the

ABS the front wheels would be locking up very early. On the Supra a

relatively sophisticated ABS allows some effort to be taken off JUST

the fronts, and an artificial and very inefficient balance is returned.

On cars with lesser (1 or 2 channel) ABS, or no ABS at all, a brake

upgrade on just one end of the car can be lethal.

Some good info here http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?225007-Big-Brake-Kits-Real-Numbers

Some good info here http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?225007-Big-Brake-Kits-Real-Numbers

Sorry. This is thread I was referring to.

Thanks Lads.

That thread is certainly an interesting read. Cheers Nic / Mwilkinson.