Performance upgrades. Diy or professional job?

Hi Everyone, I am intrigued at whether i should have gone DIY on my NA/T upgrade or had a go myself. I am i qualified HND Engineeer and i have built bike engines and boat engines, but had the opinion that tuning a Supra which was 18 years old, and IMHO the actual mapping of the "brain" (ECU) which controls the performance was paramount, so i went for a guy with experience who was relatively low cost and had a statistically meaningful record of his NA/T builds, including his own cars which he raced etc.

I want us to be technical here, and not political, as with time, i have become aware of the divides there are in the club between the "Doctor" and other club registered tuners, which i think there is nothing wrong with that IMHO.

The thing i am now looking back on, is i know, i could have taken the stock parts off, and put the NA/T parts on, i am not saying that it is easy, and to do it, involves taking the engine and gearbox out, the turbo oil feed in particular,has to be done professionally, front off the car removed, etc, clutch assembly removed and replaced, mapping and road testing, and in my case i had an exhaust system which was not what everyone else has, a stock silencer and all the rest of the system stainless steel, this required a special bespoke downpipe.

So, could i have gone DIY and acheived the end result, which incidently is superb? Herbie.

Thats an impossible question to answer as "we" don`t know what you`re capable of, however i`m an unqualified TV aerial/sky/alarm/cctv/door access and other odd job engineer and managed my own diy build(apart from mapping) with relative ease.

Thats an impossible question to answer as "we" don`t know what you`re capable of, however i`m an unqualified TV aerial/sky/alarm/cctv/door access and other odd job engineer and managed my own diy build(apart from mapping) with relative ease.

And we all saw how that turned out...

In a nut shell, it comes down to yes we all can carry out project builds ourselves. But most of us would rather pay someone else to do because the fear of the unknown.

People would rather pay someone else to carry out the build because they have knowledge you don't.

I wanted to carry out the single turbo conversion because I wanted to learn and gain a better understanding how the engine works. But the deciding factor was I had advice and help from members which gave me the confidence to carry out my build. But before I did the conversion I did a lot of reading.

No I am not a qualified engineer, I graduated with a business degree.

I pay other people to fit stuff because I really don't have the time or space for a project. As above, it completely depends on what you feel comfortable doing and whether you have the time/space to actually do it.

Build it yourself.

Get a pro to map it correctly. Anyone can fit a turbo manifold. Not everyone can map it correctly.

I wish I'd fitted mine originally myself, because the amount of times I've removed it I felt like I wasted a ton of cash taking it somewhere else.

Hi noz, That is where i am at, Bignum you sound like you are proud of being unqualified, but it sounds like you just do things, you must have a bob or two and experience, not all qualification are written on a piece of paper, let's face it many people with degrees etc are working in supermarkets. I was saying i had the ability to do my NA?T but not the confidence, especially the mapping. Following my NA/T i had to sort out the clutch replacement, fit a thermostatic oil cooler, fit three heat shields, secure the boost pipes,replace the turbo jacket, replace the coolant and the engine oil. I learned a lot from club members and doing the tidying up work. herbie.

If I had the facilities I'd have gone for it myself. Kinda wish I had in the end as it would've taught me a lot, but probably caused a lot of hassle with potsy connectors, fixings etc. that you don't think about when starting these things. Garages have a lot of those items lying around that they can use.

Build it yourself.

 

Get a pro to map it correctly. Anyone can fit a turbo manifold. Not everyone can map it correctly.

 

I wish I'd fitted mine originally myself, because the amount of times I've removed it I felt like I wasted a ton of cash taking it somewhere else.

Yes, anyone can fit a manifold (although removing one is a whole other challenge!)

But there are all sorts of details that may be overlooked by a DIYer, whereas an experienced garage will know what to look for.

I also think the labour costs associated with fitting a turbokit will be clawed back by increased value of the car, especially if it's a high end setup.

I could have fitted my kit myself, but I figured the car would be off the road for too long if I did.

Yes, anyone can fit a manifold (although removing one is a whole other challenge!)

 

But there are all sorts of details that may be overlooked by a DIYer, whereas an experienced garage will know what to look for.

 

I also think the labour costs associated with fitting a turbokit will be clawed back by increased value of the car, especially if it's a high end setup.

 

I could have fitted my kit myself, but I figured the car would be off the road for too long if I did.

Took my garage a year to NA-T mine, I reckon I could have topped that

I've done a lot of DIY work and also paid for a lot of work to be done.

If you are DIY then you need to have all the right tools, the space to do the work (preferably covered and ideally with a 4 post lift), have enough time to do the work, do your research, be methodical and have a lot of patience.

I spent a lot of time and enjoyment in my youth crawling under cars struggling to undo rusted nuts, getting crap my eyes and scuffing my knuckles, jobs that would have taken a fraction of the time (and hassle) on a lift with an acetylene torch and air impact gun. When I was at school I use to work for free in my holidays at a workshop that specialised in high end and classic cars. I was the general lackey, cleaning parts, running around for bits, making cups of tea but I loved every minute of it, I was around some amazing cars and I learnt a lot from watching, chatting with and helping the owner/mechanic. I was also able to work on my own car out of hours and had all the on tap knowledge, equipment and tools that I needed. It'd probably not be allowed these days with all the health and safety restrictions.

Like everything else....its easy if you know what your doing, anyone who has the slightest bit of common sense and a reasonable aptitude for anything mechanical can manage an N/AT conversion, and a lot more besides, IMO its all to do with the way your brain works, you either have an aptitude or you don't, and those that don't should stay well away.

Like everything else....its easy if you know what your doing, anyone who has the slightest bit of common sense and a reasonable aptitude for anything mechanical can manage an n/at conversion, and a lot more besides, imo its all to do with the way your brain works, you either have an aptitude or you don't, and those that don't should stay well away.

I think you have all outlined the parameters of this, if you are prepared to take a risk and have a out of the weather situation with some or most of the tools, then a good deal of satisfaction and knowledge can come from this, and with this club, some key knowledge is on tap. But this is not for everybody, i explained in my thread why i subcontracted the job, this was not "plain sailing" but for the most part solid, just loose ends spoiled it. The other thing you learn is how it all works and how to know when it is going wrong and how to fix it, anyway, the biggest buzz for me is the actual performance, basically i got a new super car for £4.5K, can't be bad. Herbie.

Your version makes it more fun to read

Also it caught my attention, thats for sure lol or I am a sucker for pictures

No requirement to have the car, space and a decent tool set are all that's required other than ability. The Supra was the first car I did any proper work on myself because I didn't rely on it as a daily driver. I was always scared of doing big jobs in case I ended up stuck with no way of taking the car to a garage to fix my mistakes. Since properly working on the Supra I've happily worked on my daily cars as I have gained the experience and also a lot of confidence in tackling them myself. Having a 3rd car as a backup always helps though

My first car project ever is my supra and im 31.i have never worked mechanically on vehicles before other than basic servicing. Up till about 3 years ago I didn't even know what a manifold was. No jokes!

I am undergoing my nat conversion and doing most work myself. Mapping will be by a pro.

I refuse to pay a shop to do something I can do myself. If it all goes tits up at some point then I only have myself to blame.

LOL! wont be long before we all communicate with emoticons, bit like a re-emergents of Egyptian hieroglyphics's.

My career is in IT, so nothing mechanical on a day to day basis.

That said, I have done everything on my car, from stock to single turbo conversions and mapping the car. I always prefer to do it myself, as when something goes wrong I generally know exactly what it is.

Additionally, it is a lot more satisfying to drive, when you have built the car personally.

No requirement to have the car, space and a decent tool set are all that's required other than ability. The Supra was the first car I did any proper work on myself because I didn't rely on it as a daily driver. I was always scared of doing big jobs in case I ended up stuck with no way of taking the car to a garage to fix my mistakes. Since properly working on the Supra I've happily worked on my daily cars as I have gained the experience and also a lot of confidence in tackling them myself. Having a 3rd car as a backup always helps though

Exactly the same as me! The Supra tends to have good quality fixings, so very few shearing nuts and bolts etc.

Research before, here and the Internet in general is great, then always take a step back if things aren't going to plan because sometimes some clear thinking can help before tackling it a second time. Also invest in some specific tools, a few right tools can make easy work of jobs that otherwise can be very time consuming.

My career is in IT, so nothing mechanical on a day to day basis.

 

That said, I have done everything on my car, from stock to single turbo conversions and mapping the car. I always prefer to do it myself, as when something goes wrong I generally know exactly what it is.

Additionally, it is a lot more satisfying to drive, when you have built the car personally.

How did you learn about mapping? I have to say this seems to be the least transferable skill, not only is it IMO more skilled than the nuts and bolts side of things but very few people are willing to divulge any info, so it seems all bar a few like yourself get it professionally mapped.

How did you learn about mapping? I have to say this seems to be the least transferable skill, not only is it IMO more skilled than the nuts and bolts side of things but very few people are willing to divulge any info, so it seems all bar a few like yourself get it professionally mapped.

I can understand the fuelling but I don't understand the ignition lol.

I've no real idea about any of it bar afr's etc, i don't even know if you get some sort of user manual with a new ecu and if it's understandable if you do...

I've no real idea about any of it bar afr's etc, i don't even know if you get some sort of user manual with a new ecu and if it's understandable if you do...

Usually a base map is available from the supplier. From there it's tweaking to get it all running perfect. If starting from scratch I imagine it would be a complete ballache

I'm not sure what the figures actually refer to but they usually run fairly uniformly so you can quickly set up a fuel gradient on the map. From there you just do power runs keeping a close eye on everything and logging so that you can adjust the fuelling more precisely as required.

When watching the guys work it's clear to see why having a dyno is so important. It's power run after power run and doing it on the road must be really hairy when you're staring at a laptop screen

Yes, anyone can fit a manifold (although removing one is a whole other challenge!)

 

But there are all sorts of details that may be overlooked by a DIYer, whereas an experienced garage will know what to look for.

 

I also think the labour costs associated with fitting a turbokit will be clawed back by increased value of the car, especially if it's a high end setup.

 

I could have fitted my kit myself, but I figured the car would be off the road for too long if I did.

The problem with us Northerners is we have nobody who will touch a Tiptronic on Syvecs.