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Na/t. Power delivery & oil. Temp.


herbiemercman
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Hi Dudes, Just been on my Sunday morning drive, i am blessed with three motorways, the m6, m65, and m61, when it is early morning i used to stretch the legs on my big bikes, but now the replacement is my NA/T rocket ship.

The way it delivers the power in 5 th gear from a "oner" up to a oner and thiry, is amazing, some of the big BMW's, where you can tell they are trying a bit and fascinated with your black rocket ship, sort of just get left for dead.

Now some thing more technical and sensible, my oil temperature, some of you will have seen my previous postings on this, when i picked my car up down south i had a 200 mile journey and my oil temp gauge was registering 135 deg.C. The diagnocis is i need a replacement gauge and my NA/T man is sending me a better quality one, however today the ambient temperature is only 8 deg.C, and my oil temp on quite a long high speed run did not exceed 100 deg.C. Considering the ambient temp when i had the higher oil temp was circa 20deg.C., then i think i am right in thinking that the colder air is having this effect ? Incidently, i do not have an oil cooler fitted. What do you think. herbiemercman.

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Hi Scottc, You have given me some good info in the past, I just felt that i would start a new thread on the current situation, i must admit i am not sure why you find this so irritating ? You could just ignore it, or just send me a pm.

What is your technical opinion of the situation on my oil temp issue, not me being a nuptule with too many threads. lol.?

 

Thanks tricky and mike for your comments.

Edited by herbiemercman (see edit history)
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Hi tooquick, My NA/T man has done over 35 NA/T conversions and does not fit oil coolers, so we must eliminate the possibility of a faulty gauge , not much point fitting an oil cooler, if 10 years of experience and 35 cars converted, show that you do not need one. Also unless you have a too hot oil situation, track events etc, then an oil cooler can be counter productive and not required, and too cold oil is more damaging, than too hot oil.

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I have been around long enough to know that using an oil cooler in a car with an engine that is not designed to be turbocharged is a good idea, I am keen to know why your "NA-T Man" is so against fitting them other than keeping costs down

 

Couldn't agree more, coupled with the fact you have kept the restrictive OEM exhaust which is creating extra work for a cheap turbo. Surely for the sake of a couple of hundred pounds more, its worth getting one fitted to help prolong the longevity of the conversion and your engine.

 

I do agree that waiting for another gauge is a good idea, but personally until its fitted I would not be going and ragging it up the motorway until you know what is the issue.

Edited by ripped_fear (see edit history)
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Hi ripped, I never rag my cars, but i know what you mean, i was just going quickly, like i did when i brought the car back from its transplant.

Like most things there are different experiences on development cars, my car is fantastic, i just want to know if i have a faulty oil temp gauge ? i am sure i have, and this will confirm that my NA/T man is correct, as usual. I will post the results when i have fitted the new gauge.

Just a reminder, the exhaust from good testing, which only the dedicated would do proved that this was a "red herring".

The turbo is a "garret" copy and performing well in lots of cars, why do you think it is a cheapo ? Where is your experience coming from ? You need to explain to all members as i have posted honest stuff, just like my NA/T man does.

I have a few cars and not short of money, but i am not fitting things which the expert says is not required. Can you explain technically why the actual conversion i have needs an oil cooler ? Have you converted 35 NA's or are you just spouting off ?

Don,t want to get nasty, but to me and my NA/T man you are posting comments you cannot back up ? if you can, i will hold my hand up. herbiemercman.

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Hi ripped, I never rag my cars, but i know what you mean, i was just going quickly, like i did when i brought the car back from its transplant.

Like most things there are different experiences on development cars, my car is fantastic, i just want to know if i have a faulty oil temp gauge ? i am sure i have, and this will confirm that my NA/T man is correct, as usual. I will post the results when i have fitted the new gauge.

Just a reminder, the exhaust from good testing, which only the dedicated would do proved that this was a "red herring".

The turbo is a "garret" copy and performing well in lots of cars, why do you think it is a cheapo ? Where is your experience coming from ? You need to explain to all members as i have posted honest stuff, just like my NA/T man does. He is not one for fitting parts which he thinks, from experience, are not required, he is not trying to save money, there is no shortage of that, how do you know he is trying to save money, where do you get your info from ?

I have a few cars and not short of money, but i am not fitting things which the expert says is not required. Can you explain technically why the actual conversion i have needs an oil cooler ? Have you converted 35 NA's or are you just spouting off ?

Don,t want to get nasty, but to me and my NA/T man you are posting comments you cannot back up ? if you can, i will hold my hand up. Can you post explaining what you base your comments on ? Many members will look forward to your reply. Thanks for your response. herbiemercman.

Edited by herbiemercman (see edit history)
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You are starting to sound like a crappy sales man for "my NA/T man" and you are not doing him or yourself any favours IMO

 

The "Garret" copy is just that, a cheap copy so the post made is not wrong there, you started this post by saying I did 130 yet you have an unknown issue with oil temps?

 

You posted a week or so ago how unhappy you were with "the NA/t man" and the number of issues you were experiencing

 

I have seen several garages over my time be in "trend", the cheap ones usual fall on there arse as you get what you pay for IMO when chasing power,

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Ok mate but maybe the term rag was wrong, but I personally wouldn't be driving my car if I was seeing alarming oil temps, even if it is a faulty gauge, especially at motorway speeds. The fact of the matter is, you don't know currently what is the issue.

 

Not sure what you mean by the term red herring.

 

I didn't mean to offend you calling your turbo conversion cheap, but the fact of the matter is it is a copy of a turbo, for cheaper than garret provide them is it not? I didn't say it was rubbish, or comment on the build quality, or its ability to make power. You are very correct in saying there are plenty running them successfully, never said otherwise. But it is a copy of a well known turbo, what brand is it? So not sure what your asking me to explain?

 

Never commented on how much you have, or the quantity of cars you own, so no need to jump mate. Maybe take the time to re-read my comment it was not posted in spite.

 

Your Na-t man may say there is no need, but if the gauge isn't faulty what his next advice? Also I didn't say you had to fit one, but where is the harm? You yourself said your 'NA-t' man had never done one retaining the stock exhaust so you are in uncharted territory to a point.

 

You have posted about this subject many times now, and lots of very experienced people have given advice on the subject.

 

And no I have not converted 35 NA's.

 

As many will know on here I'm a reasonable guy and will happily talk about most subjects and help where I can, but considering your response to my post I regret even getting involved.

Edited by ripped_fear (see edit history)
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Also what happened to the statement about your oil coming out like dogshit, it obviously got cooked somehow, i wouldn`t count on that gauge being faulty, you may be ok to run it through the winter but i`d still put money on you needing a cooler come warmer weather.

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Hi tooquick and ripped, I am pleased when members try to provide comments based on their experience etc, i have stated lots of times that i may have just a faulty oil temp gauge, and i still think this is the case. It's just frustrating when you put forward what you think without ant actual experience of the very involved work my tuner has done. If you can outline your proposals, without going into cheapo and saving cost unfounded comments, then i am happy.

This is a good club, with people like Chris Wilson who i know personally and my NA/T man, who incidently, is very technical and honest and i hope you can understand,we have to respond if members are making out we do not know what we are doing. A "red herring" is some thing which does not exist, but fishermen hope they will catch one, one day.

Please don't regret getting involved, all comments are welcome, but this issue is posted in the technical department and you must see that if you say some thing is no good or not right, you must say why.

Sorry if i got frustrated, but some times posts are not targetted at helping, and more it seems like winding you up.

I have stated in previouse posts that if i need an oil cooler, i will fit one, just need to see what happens ? I realise that many members think the oil cooler is a no brainer. herbiemercman.

Edited by herbiemercman (see edit history)
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Herbie.

 

From an outside perspective this and previous threads give the impression you've done a cheap NA-T conversion and are having teething problems.

Yes your oil temps could be colder if the outside ambient temperature was cooler. What oil rating are you running for a start?

An oil cooler is probably advised in any case, and I myself personally wouldn't be driving the car if the temps were reading wrong, bust gauge or not. It's a risk that could go wrong in multiple ways because of an assumption.

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Hi tooquick and ripped, I am pleased when members try to provide comments based on their experience etc, i have stated lots of times that i may have just a faulty oil temp gauge, and i still think this is the case. It's just frustrating when you put forward what you think without ant actual experience of the very involved work my tuner has done. If you can outline your proposals, without going into cheapo and saving cost unfounded comments, then i am happy.

This is a good club, with people like Chris Wilson who i know personally and my NA/T man, who incidently, is very technical and honest and i hope you can understand,we have to respond if members are making out we do not know what we are doing. A "red herring" is some thing which does not exist, but fishermen hope they will catch one, one day.

Please don't regret getting involved, all comments are welcome, but this issue is posted in the technical department and you must see that if you say some thing is no good or not right, you must say why.

Sorry if i got frustrated, but some times posts are not targetted at helping, and more it seems like winding you up. herbiemercman.

 

Ian,

as I am sure you will agree, I have been happy to offer advice and answer your queries on the NA-T subject in relation to your build, clutch etc.

 

So I would rather hope that you will listen to what I am about to say and take it in the manner in which it is meant.

 

With the best of intentions, your "NA-T man" may well have completed 35 conversions, but how many of those conversions were done for himself and how many of them are still successfully and reliably running without issue?

 

Tooquicktoostop has owned more supra's than I care to count, I believe he is definitely into double figures now. These include everything from NA-700hp singles. He knows a little bit about these cars and I'm sure his technical understanding is certainly reliable.

 

You refer to your "NA-T man" as being "very technical", but with respect, until recently, he was a tyre fitter, not an engine specialist.

 

As Bignum said - another member who has been around on this club for years and does genuinely have VERY detailed knowledge of the cars, I doubt highly that the issue you are experiencing is down to a faulty gauge, the cooked oil would tell me that - like yourself, I am an electro/mechanical engineer by trade.

 

With regards to your other thread related to your clutch, the fact that your "NA-T man" is adamant that full faced clutches will not hold the power, I am afraid I am now I'm a position to inform you, categorically that he is wrong.

 

It's up to you, as a customer, to form your own opinion of the service and product you have received. I am sure reading between the lines that other people will do the same and draw the same conclusion as myself.

 

On that note, again, please do not misinterpret this post, please read it in its literal sense.

It is neither malicious, nor slanderous, but a mere honest opinion of someone outside, looking in - bearing in mind, my own car is an NA-T too and I also have experience of converting several others with friends.

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Hi tooquick, Which members ? and why are you out ? all you need to do is explain your comments? You support the oil cooler being fitted just as a principal, and you may be right, you are also "some member", i am just asking you to explain why you think i need an oil cooler, my expert, not sure if you are one ? says, i do not ? Anyway you have dropped out so you cannot explain.

I have built boat engines, bike engines and car engines etc, and i am "some member". Good luck.

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Ian,

as I am sure you will agree, I have been happy to offer advice and answer your queries on the NA-T subject in relation to your build, clutch etc.

 

So I would rather hope that you will listen to what I am about to say and take it in the manner in which it is meant.

 

With the best of intentions, your "NA-T man" may well have completed 35 conversions, but how many of those conversions were done for himself and how many of them are still successfully and reliably running without issue?

 

Tooquicktoostop has owned more supra's than I care to count, I believe he is definitely into double figures now. These include everything from NA-700hp singles. He knows a little bit about these cars and I'm sure his technical understanding is certainly reliable.

 

You refer to your "NA-T man" as being "very technical", but with respect, until recently, he was a tyre fitter, not an engine specialist.

 

As Bignum said - another member who has been around on this club for years and does genuinely have VERY detailed knowledge of the cars, I doubt highly that the issue you are experiencing is down to a faulty gauge, the cooked oil would tell me that - like yourself, I am an electro/mechanical engineer by trade.

 

With regards to your other thread related to your clutch, the fact that your "NA-T man" is adamant that full faced clutches will not hold the power, I am afraid I am now I'm a position to inform you, categorically that he is wrong.

 

It's up to you, as a customer, to form your own opinion of the service and product you have received. I am sure reading between the lines that other people will do the same and draw the same conclusion as myself.

 

On that note, again, please do not misinterpret this post, please read it in its literal sense.

It is neither malicious, nor slanderous, but a mere honest opinion of someone outside, looking in - bearing in mind, my own car is an NA-T too and I also have experience of converting several others with friends.

 

Nail on head..

 

your NA/T man sounds like a bit of a dribbler

 

fit an oil cooler if you want to reduce oil temps.. the NA/T especially the XS kit DO suffer with hotter oil temps.. for obvious reasons.. look at where the drain is and how tight/how much is touching the manifold etc

 

fitting an oil cooler with proper thermostatic plate is an upgrade worth doing IMO but I havent done it yet.. my NA/T man is me.. ive fitted mine and got it mapped by one of the best mappers in the country and its performed flawlessly for the last year its been done.. at 450bhp - 500lbft on a full face spec 3+ clutch.. near oem feel and holds the power well

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Josh42, Many thanks, It is a big learning curve being on this site, amongst members who have thousands of postings etc, one of whom you just sited.

There is an undercurrent of two camps here and i have only just started to sort of get to understand it, i know there is politics in most things, i have worked in many countries and i know the ropes.

I have no issues from you and you have given me good information, which i may take up, BUT we all need to come together, there will always be different experiences, and different opinions, we are all Mk4 fans and the club is based on this.

I will admit i can be agressive, but i do try to avoid this, where we step over the line, and as you know i have in the past, we get told, but it is difficult to not respond to certain comments when you are genuinely trying to put forward your experiences and looking for constructive comments. herbiemercman.

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Although I still think you should eliminate the gauge/sender as a matter of course, I still stand by my original comment that I think you should be running an oil cooler, as fitting an oil cooled turbo to an N/A engine is without doubt going to raise oil temperatures above normal, and by normal I mean that most engines are designed to reach an oil temp of at least 100C during normal operation,

So both turbocharged, and N/A engines are designed with this temp in mind, which results in the cooling systems designed to attain this temp, so hopefully you can see my point.

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Hi rob, Good info especially the clutch bit, i do not agree with the NA/T man being a dribbler, he was a top footballer in his city, if you met him, you would not say that, he is part Portugese, big reputation in his city and well supported, now on several car clubs, there may be other politics from the past which i am not aware of, but i take people as i find them, i could not wish for more support that i have had and it is still coming.

Chris Wilson and my man have their experience and have earned it, BUT, they can be out of date with some things, and it might well be the clutch is one of them, but they are broad shouldered enough to take it on board, Without us putting each other down.

Edited by herbiemercman (see edit history)
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Hi Scooter, I appreciate your comments but there is good oil in the engine and the high temp only occurred in the early days on my way home from the NA/T place.

There are different opinions on this and i have been grateful for the help members have provided, i am confident that the oil temp gauge is faulty and at the same time am ready to fit an oil cooler anyway, i have to admit that in the summer months and in traffic jams etc, it can only be a good asset.

In the meantime i am obliged to take the advice from my NA/T man, who has been 100% supportive and i have a 12 months guarantee, but knowing him as i now do, i would be ok without any guarantee, time will tell when the new gauges arirve.

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