10W-60 oil

I was speaking to a guy from Miller's Oils at the motorsport show last weekend and he was saying that their 10W-60 oil would be the best for the Supra twin-turbo.

Do many of us twin-turbo guys use this oil? From what he was saying it sounded pretty good.

I use Millers CFS 10w60

how often do you change your oil mcanny?

does the 10W-60 require a change more often than other oils?

I tend to change it every 3000, I suspect the oil is good for a lot longer but I prefer to change it at regular intervals.

60!!!!! bloody hell. I have trouble finding 50 grade!

the guy from Miller's oils did say it wasn't readily available in most places. They have outlets around the country which do stock it.... he did say that Envy were on their list of suppliers.

But from what he was explaining then I think my next oil change will be 10W-60.

Yeah I got my last batch from Envy, I think they worked out cheaper than the discount scheme I set up with Woodcote.

A 10w60 oil is gonna put the most strain on that crank oil seal....

My chouice for a Supra would be Silkolene 5w40 or 10w50 - ester based, the best kind of synthetic. Opie oils (oilman on this forum) supply it at good prices, especially if buy 5 as shipping costs are better.

Am I right by saying that the 10 part is the viscosity of the oil and the 60 part is the heat range performance? If 10W50 is ok then wouldn't 10W60 ?

I'm not too gelled up on my oils, so shoot me down if I'm wrong.

No 10 is the viscsity at low temperature (hence 10W for winter) and the 50 is the viscosity at high temperature (operating temperature).

Oil wouldn't be much good up to 50 degrees and no more!!

It's too thick, in fact it's as thick as a 90 gear oil!

Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine.

More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.

In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly. As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.

Although I have nothing against Millers personally, I made some technical data comparisons recently and the following may be of interest:

The two numbers that concern me were the VI Index and the HTHS number. (Descriptions of relevance later)

These were very low for the viscosity. Basically the higher the viscosity, the higher these numbers should be as they combined indicate the quality and thermal stability.

These were my findings:

Millers CFS 10w-60

VI = 160

HTHS = 3.7

Silkolene PRO S 5w-40

VI Index 169

HTHS 4.07

Motul 300V 5w-40

VI Index 176

HTHS 4.51

Silkolene PRO S 10w-50

VI Index 174

HTHS 5.11

Motul 300V 10w-40

VI Index 161

HTHS 4.19

Silkolene PRO R 15w-50

VI Index 156

HTHS 5.23

Motul 300V 15w-50

VI Index 154

HTHS 5.33

Mobil 1 Motorsport 15w-50

VI Index 153

HTHS 5.11

Basically the Millers oil should have much higher numbers than it does which indicates that although it may contain a % of the good stuff, it's not much and certainly not enough to compete with the top stuff for quality and shear stability.

For those that wish to know the importance of these numbers then hopefully this explains.

Viscosity Index

An oil's VI rating refers to its ability to maintain a consistent viscosity over a wide temperature range. The higher the VI, the better this ability. I wouldn't purchase an multi-viscosity oil that has a viscosity index below 140. The VI of a good monograde oil should be at least above 100. One thing to keep in mind regarding VI numbers is that they only refer to an oil's ability to maintain consistent viscosity when new. They tell you nothing about how quickly the oil will lose this ability to maintain its viscosity over time.

The fact is, even if an oil has a VI of 180, it may only hold that VI rating for a couple thousand miles and this is extremely important! This is where the HTHS number is very important.

A rule of thumb is that Petroleum oils are much more likely to have declining viscosity indexes than synthetic oils. This is because synthetics require a far lower percentage of VI improvers to boost their VI numbers. VI improvers can break down very quickly. Hence, the less VI improver needed, the less likely an oil's VI will be affected over time.

High-Temperature/High-Shear

This test is a simulation of the shearing effects that would occur within an engine. In fact, it's actually designed to simulate motor oil viscosity in operating crankshaft bearings.

Under high stress conditions where shearing can occur, the VI Improvers (polymers) break down. As they do, the viscosity of the oil decreases. This is what the High Temperature/High Shear test checks for.

The HT/HS test is measured in Centipoise (cP) as the Cold Crank Simulator test is. However, in this case, because you're hoping for the least loss of viscosity with an increase in heat and stress, you want the cP value to remain high.

Each SAE multi-viscosity grade has a specific lower limit for the HT/HS cP value. If a multi-viscosity oil cannot achieve a cP value above that limit, it cannot be classified under that viscosity grade. For instance, according to the SAE specifications, an oil must achieve an HT/HS cP value of 3.7 or higher in order to be classified at the 15w40 viscosity grade. The thinner the oil the lower the number.

Hope this enlightens some. Oils are not always what they're cracked up to be and quality often is based on pub talk, hearsay and slick marketing. Know what you're buying and don't expect to get a bargain, chemists are clever chaps but accountants make the final decisions.

Just playing devils advocate as usual. At the end of the day it's your car and money!

Cheers

Simon

Simon, that must have taken you ages to type that all out, double checking mistake etc.

So at the end of the day, and in one sentence, what would you recommend we use?

I'm not going to get involved with Mr Oil right now but I wanted to add that CFS is also available in a 10w40

Simon, that must have taken you ages to type that all out, double checking mistake etc.

So at the end of the day, and in one sentence, what would you recommend we use?

Cut & Paste is wonderful

What's wrong with C&P?

Actually I did this exercise for another Club when asked to comment about the Millers 10w-60 so why retype it.

The facts are there, you can make your own mind up. At the end of the day it's different folks, different strokes.

Silkolene PRO S 5w-40 or 10w-50

Motul 300V 5w-40 or 10w-40

These would be my choice.

No offense meant here.

Cheers

Simon

What's wrong with C&P?

Nothing, as I mentioned above I think it's wonderful

Actually I did this exercise for another Club when asked to comment about the Millers 10w-60 so why retype it.

Why indeed, I never said you needed to - no need to get all defensive

The facts are there, you can make your own mind up. At the end of the day it's different folks, different strokes.

 

Silkolene PRO S 5w-40 or 10w-50

Motul 300V 5w-40 or 10w-40

 

These would be my choice.

Just out of interest which brands of oil do you supply?

Thanks for that reply oilman.... it's good to compare the different products. So it looks like the Silkolene 10W-50 would be a better choice for a 400bhp Twin Turbo then.

 

 

Just out of interest which brands of oil do you supply?

You'll find them all here:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

Cheers

Simon

Thanks for that reply oilman.... it's good to compare the different products. So it looks like the Silkolene 10W-50 would be a better choice for a 400bhp Twin Turbo then.

Indeed a good choice

Cheers

Simon

PRO S - 4 Wheel.pdf

i have never had trouble getting Castrol 10-60 oils, i think they are around £25 4L something like that in my local parts store.

but in my opinion a turbo charge car will benefit more in running a thicker oil for the turbo and the cranks. due to the high temp the turbo will get, the oil will get much thinner !! and they will tend to stick less on surface. 5-40W would be good i would say

I run the Millers 10/60 and noticed that the oil pressure stays better when really giving the car some stick , as its a 1o W when cold there should IMO be no issue with crank seals blowing , quite the opposite stick in some 0 weight and see what hapens !!!!

Dude :flame Dev

I run the Millers 10/60 and noticed that the oil pressure stays better when really giving the car some stick , as its a 1o W when cold there should IMO be no issue with crank seals blowing , quite the opposite stick in some 0 weight and see what hapens !!!!

 

Dude :flame Dev

Dude - remember Richie from SXOC with the big power white S13 (very stressed 1.8 turbo)? He has used many oils and was using castrol RS 10w60, then made the switch to Silkolene Pro S 10w50 and noticed both lower oil temps and better oil pressure during drag runs etc... Think he swears by it now.

Cheers,

Brian.

Indeed, he switched on our recommendation with great results.

Think the car is up for sale or may even be sold by now. Awesome car!

Cheers

Simon

I'll prob try the Silkolene this year , especially if Oilman fancies having his name on a Fast car !!!!!

Dude

I am very impressed with the Pro S Iam using. Best oil by a margin so far.