Why can't we buy titanium valve retainers w/out springs?

I have been trying to source a set of titanium valve retainers, but all I can find (with one exception) are full kits of retainers and springs. The only exception appears to be Ferrea, but they are at a silly price (after all, they are just a fancy alloy with a bit of lathe work!). So why don't Crower or Supertech do them alone? I don't see the point of replacing the springs. The stock ones are fine until 7 - 7.5K, and with lighter retainers, they should be able to handle an extra 500rpm. Does anyone know a good engineering shop who could turn up a set?

JUN sell titanium valve retainer sets, not cheap though.

http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/valveretainer/index.en.html

Thats about £470 a set - cheaper to get a kit. I am tempted to forget it, and just do a shimless conversion.

for the cost (circa £400) is it not just worth the piece of mind when you bounce of the limiter at 8k your not about to see a number of valves and springs making new shapes in your bonnet?

for the cost (circa £400) is it not just worth the piece of mind when you bounce of the limiter at 8k your not about to see a number of valves and springs making new shapes in your bonnet?

That's the standard justification for overpriced stuff being sold to people with no understanding of engineering. I don't mind spending when its justified, but 450+ for a bit of simple CNC lathe work on a bit of Ti alloy is a joke. Ti bar is less than £25 for 25mmx150mm round bar (enough for a set of retainers), and the lathe work is just a matter of programming it into a CNC machine.

We are being ripped off folks.

That's the standard justification for overpriced stuff being sold to people with no understanding of engineering. I don't mind spending when its justified, but 400+ for a bit of simple CNC lathe work on a bit of Ti alloy is a joke. Ti bar is less than £25 for 25mmx150mm round bar (enough for a set of retainers), and the lathe work is just a matter of programming it into a CNC machine.

 

We are being ripped off folks.

Well thats me told, sorry i even bothered!!

Well thats me told, sorry i even bothered!!

Made me laugh. Thanks. Now go sit in the corner.

I don't think he was aiming it at you.

Made me laugh. Thanks. Now go sit in the corner.

 

I don't think he was aiming it at you.

You can get back in your box too

Long time no speak fella?

Sorry, just having a grumble....

Long time no speak fella?

Indeed I've been about, just keeping my head down and lurking. Not seen you about much either? trust you are well?

Zedhex, if you think you can do better for cheaper then you have a new business venture. Apply for hobbyist membership and off you go. Make your millions. I want 5% though since I gave you the idea.

Have you ever tried turning small form parts in a Ti grade suitable for retainers? IMO the last thing you want is Ti retainers rather than mildly uprated or new stock valve springs.

Have you ever tried turning small form parts in a Ti grade suitable for retainers? IMO the last thing you want is Ti retainers rather than mildly uprated or new stock valve springs.

I haven't tried turning Ti, but it's immaterial now - I just found a supplier in the states who can get me a set for $240. But I am curious to know why you say that - I would have thought that lowering valve train weight should result in the springs (even saggy old ones) performing better.

Just get a head fully built, job done.

Ti retainers on none coated springs and none coated collets gall and Ti work hardens, it's race engine material as far as spring caps are concerned. You will be far safer and better renewing the springs with either new stock ones, or decent quality mildly uprated ones. How many revs are you expecting this thing to stand, and what cams are going to let it breathe at these elevated revolutions?

This would be on a 1JZGTE with HKS 264 cams, used for track days at the moment. Might be entering into classic racing next year (cash permitting). I am expecting to rev it to 8000 regularly (plus a bit more if it will breathe that high). I didn't know about Ti work hardening - that would mean that I'd have to replace them every year or so (I do less than 2000 miles a year total on it).

Would I be better off with a shimless (or shim under bucket) conversion?

Even on the shorter stroke 1JZ the cams are far too tame for effective 8000 RPM usage, you need to be looking at 272 degrees or more, preferably more. Perhaps 280 degrees. You will get away with shim atop bucket, but with some stiffer, better springs, although a genuine regualr 8000 RPM is definitely pushing the shim atop bucket arrangement. The shims probably weigh more than the retainers I think the Gen 3 MR2 turbo buckets and under bucket shims may work as a near drop in replacement, but check first!