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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

NA-T turbo & manifold advice


Tsia
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Hi guys,

 

I'm currently weighing up a few options for the NA-T and option 1, Whifbitz is of course still there, but I have to admit I have a little brand preference towards Garrett and TiAL instead of Borg Warner etc, coupled with the fact I'd really like an FMIC with it, I thought I'd explore a few different routes.

 

I've made contact with a garage and started putting together a little spec list, so far, we're thinking on:

 

Garrett GTX3576R (My choice - haven't discussed turbo options with the garage, but this seems like the one for me.)

TiAL wastegate

Treadstone cast manifold

TT FFIM (Most the kit acquired already for this, or about to be ordered!)

Greddy E-Manage Ultimate

Spec stage 3+ clutch (Ordered.)

Custom pipework'd FMIC

 

Now, we're both wanting to make sure that the kit is going to work exactly as intended before making the purchase - does anybody have any horror stories about Treadstone manifolds, or will the 2JZ-GE manifold for NA-T be sufficient? Is there a turbo that will be better suited for it? (I'm keeping stock compression initially, then once funds have recovered, hopefully dropping it a little bit with a thicker HG for a bit more boost ;) )

 

Cheers

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Each manifold will be slightly different. I very much doubt you could isolate the risk of it passing the distributor. If it doesn't clear, your just need a 4" to 3" reducer.

 

Some people are able to use an elbow. I'm going to try and close cut a silicone coupler to go up to 4".

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Worst case scenario I suppose I could go COP?

 

Another thing - what is the supposed max pressure you can run the boost at with stock compression? ;)

 

Don't quote me, but I think around 8psi is deemed safe. Me personally, I'm staying with 7psi for now as that will be wastegate pressure on my setup. There are people running higher than that, and there are also people in the States' running theirs on E85 with stock compression pushing some silly figures! If you can get rid of the timing spike then I *think* you could run a little more boost safely.

 

Don't take this as gospel though, just trying to remember what I've read on here :)

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Exactly. As above soon as you can map out the timing spike you can run higer boost, your problem is then fueling with the stock 330s, buy some 450s and a resistor box (coupled with a fuel pump) you can run 14psi easy

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Generally good set up plans EXCEPT get a proper ecu and get rid of the disi. A TT oil pump and crank position sensor and trigger wheel will allow TT COP set up to be run with a decent aftermarket ECU. I honestly think that any modern turbo engine build needs a proper ecu and coil on plug ignition. Good aftermarket ecu's have excellent residual values, so the investment isn't too bad. It's just the rest you'll burn £50's on ;)

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Exactly. As above soon as you can map out the timing spike you can run higer boost, your problem is then fueling with the stock 330s, buy some 450s and a resistor box (coupled with a fuel pump) you can run 14psi easy

 

That's a very general statement. I must say I've never seen anyone 'easily' hit 14psi on stock compression with only injectors. I would have to slightly disagree with that statement. I believe 14psi is acheivable with the addition of injectors, but the main problem here will be knock due to compression. The cylinder just isn't big enough at stock compression to allow that much volume to not pre-ignite.

 

At 14psi you will need to either charge cool the air to a super sonic level or use an anti-det system such as water/meth injection.

 

On a stock compression setup Chris is right, higher boost will need some serious timing control. On lower compression setups the dizzy will be fine up to 700hp, proven though not recommended by tuners past 600hp countless times on US forums and a few tuners here.

 

COP setup means standalone ECU and more sensors, another benefit. I've been recommended to use meth injection only when I go standalone ECU as I want to use it for more power and not solely to reduce chances of det at mapped boost.

 

The highest NA-T on stock compression I've ever seen (without anti-det setups) ran 10psi and had 410bhp. Various other components such as intake piping and exhaust size would obviously contribute to those figures, DONT confuse boost alone contributes to the power, the third important factor is flow. Same flow, more boost, more power. But its both that are important not just boost alone. More flow, same psi, more power. I'm going for a remap Thursday, Ive no extra psi but am hoping for better figures due to improvements Ive made with the flow.

Edited by Noz (see edit history)
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I still don't understand why you would want to go standalone just for a basic NA-T setup. For 600bhp then maybe it would be worth it. I don't think there's anything wrong with Piggy backs in 99% of NA-T setups.

 

Installing coils purely for dizzy removing and intake size seems a heavy cost just for a silicone elbow bud.

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Sorry noz, I think my statement was a little sweeping and not in depth enough, I was not trying to broad brush the extra boost levels and fully understand the extra requirements to run up to 14psi. I was being rushed at work and hence my only surface scratching explanation

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same footprint anyway, apart from the internal sizes externally there identical as well.

 

The picture in the first page showing clearances are using a turbo with a T04s compressor housing so exactly the same housing the GTX30/35's use. Offset away from the manifold will depend on exhaust housing but seeing its aT4 footprint manifold there really isn't that many T4 options with different chra to flange offset sizes out there. So the turbo being used is going to be comparable to the one pictured so ideally should have the same clearances

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It was AEM piggy back for my fuel control. Works fine. I have to agree that stand alone systems are overkill on a NA-T running at 9psi max producing 300 - 400 hp. I don't see the point. Save your money for something else. I would be looking to change the dizzy cap though for a 4-runner one. That way you may not have to use a 3" reducer.

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