Crap customer service - A long rant!

I recently took my car to a well known dyno / mapping house for them to look over it as it had suffered a disintegrating spark plug problem. It had previoulsy been mapped by another tuning house and I hadn't had any problems but as they were based at Kent, I decided to go to a more local supplier who had experience with emanage systems and big power Supra's.

I took the car along, explained it all and, after an initial dyno run, was surprised when they said the car wasn't mapped correctly and that they needed to modify the e-manage. Well, as a complete numpty does when faced with perceived experienced technical knowledge, I bowed to their suggestion. Everything seemed to be going fine and they explained that the car was now making far more power than before (a great ploy for keeping us power mad people happy eh?) and it finished with me having to pay £360.

I left and within a short period of time, realised all was not well. As soon as the car got to 5k rpm, it drove like a pig. A quick call and a hasty return then led to the mapper going out on his own to road test it to then return and say all was now fine. Unfortunately, it wasn't. But, by then, I could not contact the mappers and had to drive home.

The following day I contacted them and arranged for me to go back. I took a days holiday, went back and, once again, the mapper decided to take me out on a road test (as opposed to being put back on the dyno) with me driving. This meant that I had to let him know if the car felt better. Well, it did until I left again and found that it still wasnt right.

By now I was getting frustrated and asked to see the maps that had been done. I then sent them off to a major tuning house who have extensive experience with the e-manage system. To say their comments were scathing would be an undersatement.

Here are a sample:

"The tuning house appears to still be using the global injector size scaling function, which we figured out long ago to be actually rather rubbish and very detrimental to tuning".

"On top of that the actual airflow map is, ahh, I hate to say this but, crude".

"All in all, whilst we hate to condemn any other tuning house, we will always give an honest appraisal. In our opinion, the car has not been mapped to a standard we would expect".

I sent these comments onto the mapper and asked for a full refund of the money spent. After much humming and arghing, the tuner agreed to pay me £250 as he felt that they had done other things that were still chargeable! This other chargeable work was to determine that the reason the car would not idle was that the cam gears had come loose and needed to be retightened.

I mean WTF. My car was mapped badly. It could have caused serious damage. I had to take a days holiday and incur extra travel costs but hey, fuck me eh? I am only the customer! It has now left me with no alternative other then to issue a claim through the small claims court.

Sorry for the long rant but it really does piss me off when certain people see us as easy targets. It's about time that some realised we are not the cash cows of before and started to treat us as customers and not imbeciles!

It would seem that there are lots of problems mapping emanages.

I know who you should have spoken too

Originally posted by Supragal

I know who you should have spoken too

So do I now

I think I know who you're talking about...

Sorry to hear it CJ, hope you can sort it out!!!

Sorry to hear your havin problems CJ

Can't you tell us who the cowboys are?

Originally posted by SupraStar 3000

Sorry to hear your havin problems CJ

 

Can't you tell us who the cowboys are?

I dont want to jeopordise the pending county court claim but as soon as it is over, I will let everyone know as i dont want anyone else to find themselves in the same position as me.

Good, name & shame!

I hope you get sorted.

Was this anything to do with what happened on saturday night colin?

After our short and crap signaled conversation on sunday IO thought worse things were afoot

Nope - this is a problem that had happened when I attempted to get it the e-manage mapped properly.

I cannot say for sure if the poor mapping was in anyway responsible for the valve problem I had over the weekend and am not suggesting it was. But I am saying that the mapping was not to a standard it should have been and that the subsequent customer service is crap.

This is why I am going to wait for the outcome of the County Court case. This is from the mapper:

May I point out that no blame has been apportioned by any legal party and hence no we do not expect our company name to appear on any internet discussion forum (BBS or similar), regardless of the outcome, or I will counter claim for loss of future earnings and damage to our untarnished reputation.

Oh, so regardless of whether they are found guilty to have given a shit service or not, I am being warned not mention their name. Yeah right - wish on pal!

Give them hell mate!!!

that is f*cking shite. if they f*cked your car up, you should have the right to tell us. a pm will suffice:)

Colin,

Can you explain more about the other chargable work?

This essentially is what the £110 discrepancy is about as they appear to have offered the money back for the actual tuning work. So the tuning mistake, problem or just disatifaction is being acknowledged and rightly compensated for.

This other chargeable work was to determine that the reason the car would not idle was that the cam gears had come loose and needed to be retightened.

Loose CAMs Is this not a serious problem

One which requires immediate attention?

CAMs slipping would mean possible valve overlap and hence future valve damage. Made potentially worse if this happend during a high rpm, high power stage during tuning.

CAMs slipping would be caused by them not being torqued up properly when fitted. All the AEM ones we sell come with a big sticker saying "must be torqued up!". Who fitted them?

Can the tuner be blamed for this problem happening? This sounds like bad luck on the day caused by a simple mistake fitting the CAMs which cost extra money to sort out.

Speaking as a person in the trade the argument that this is chargeable must be in part justified. Can no one else see this?

Lets not be so quick to condem without the full picture.

Pete

dont come with any sticker Pete !!!!! thats why the fecking things keep slipping , commonly known and should have been the first thing checked , what torque would you recomend for alluminium pulleys ??? personally i allways locktite them but you are allways ltd to the fact you are screwing into alluminium !!!!, i will never fit HKS pulleys (alloy) to my own car again allthough the last pair i saw wers steel outers but still alloy centres , anyway if you could quote some torque figures i would be most interested .Fecking lucky the engines are non interference though !!!

Dude:flame Dev

Originally posted by THOR Racing

Colin,

Can you explain more about the other chargable work?

This essentially is what the £110 discrepancy is about as they appear to have offered the money back for the actual tuning work. So the tuning mistake, problem or just disatifaction is being acknowledged and rightly compensated for.

 

I agree that they have offered the money back fo the actual tuning work but then took away £110 for the other work. Thereby conveniently ignoring the fact that I was out of pocket by having to take a days holiday and the petrol cost of travelling back and forth. Oh, and BTW, the car was still running like a pig!

 

 

 

Loose CAMs Is this not a serious problem

One which requires immediate attention?

 

CAMs slipping would mean possible valve overlap and hence future valve damage. Made potentially worse if this happend during a high rpm, high power stage during tuning.

 

CAMs slipping would be caused by them not being torqued up properly when fitted. All the AEM ones we sell come with a big sticker saying "must be torqued up!". Who fitted them?

 

Can the tuner be blamed for this problem happening? This sounds like bad luck on the day caused by a simple mistake fitting the CAMs which cost extra money to sort out.

 

I never once accused the tuner of being to blame for the cams slipping etc. I am accusing the tuner of not mapping my car properly and then giving me a shit customer service afterwards. At the end of the day my car was worse leaving the tuner than before it got there. Can that be the fault of the owner?

 

Speaking as a person in the trade the argument that this is chargeable must be in part justified. Can no one else see this?

 

Part charegable? Well what about compensation for possible damage? What about recompense for days spent off work? What about petrol money? Is this not chargeable?

I also had serious doubts when the tuner advised me that he would need to charge me again for dyno time to put right the problem with the car running badly at 5k rpm. I felt that seeing as the car didnt have that problem until he had tuned it, then that should have bee put right for free.

When I then took the car back it was not put onto a dyno but road tested and adjusted on the hoof. It was only afterwards I realised that my car does not have an AFR gauge and wondered how the tuner knew if the ratios were safe or not.

very disturbing but very interesting. im going to nip down to thors at the nearest opportunity to get my cams checked:innocent:

Originally posted by CJ

"The tuning house appears to still be using the global injector size scaling function, which we figured out long ago to be actually rather rubbish and very detrimental to tuning".

 

Does someone want to elaborate on this? AFAIK if you have bigger injectors or more fuel pressure on the Emanage you use the global injector size thingy to scale the fueling back to normal, and then add fuel where you need it using the additional injector map. What's the problem with doing this? All it does is scale the fuel back across the whole range.

Originally posted by SimonB

Does someone want to elaborate on this? AFAIK if you have bigger injectors or more fuel pressure on the Emanage you use the global injector size thingy to scale the fueling back to normal, and then add fuel where you need it using the additional injector map. What's the problem with doing this? All it does is scale the fuel back across the whole range.

Simon, I have a big long explaination (which I admit to not understanding) sent from another tuning house. i can send this along to you via PM.

Originally posted by CJ

Simon, I have a big long explaination (which I admit to not understanding) sent from another tuning house. i can send this along to you via PM.

Thanks mate, very interesting. Must admit I'd have expected it to scale everything back correctly but when you think about it it's not going to.

Originally posted by SimonB

Thanks mate, very interesting. Must admit I'd have expected it to scale everything back correctly but when you think about it it's not going to.

And it would seem that the mappers I used also expected the same results as you but it didnt happen.

Hi CJ,

Is there any chance you could pm me the explanation regarding the "tuning effort" made by this company. As I am currently embarking on the EManage route this could prove very helpful.

I hope it all gets sorted mate, feel a bit bad for you as you've had a fair few problems lately. Just look forward to the summer when she'll be running sweetly and you'lll be bombing round in the sunshine beaming an orange glow to all!

Thanks Dan

At the end of the day, all I want is fair play and not to be treated with disdain.

I will pm you the explaination in 2 PM's as it wont fit on one!

I really hope you get this all sorted out soon! When will this matter be goinng to court?? Hope you give'em hell!!:flame Dev

Regards,

Sheena:)

Originally posted by CJ

Thanks Dan

 

At the end of the day, all I want is fair play and not to be treated with disdain.

 

I will pm you the explaination in 2 PM's as it wont fit on one!

Don't see why you shouldn't post it up in technical CJ, there's nothing in there that names the tuners involved or takes the piss or anything...