Performance 'Problem'

Morning Guys,

Was out in the supra tonight doing the usual cruising about. Its a Jap 1995 twin turbo manual RZ. It's been BPU'ed, double decat, HKS EVC 3 boost controller, HKS airfilter, 1 bar restrictor ring, kakitomo exhaust, blitz dump valve and a front mount HKS intercooler.

My friend drives a Honda Civic EP3 Type R which is pretty much stock aside from an aftermarket cat back and an AEM induction kit and as you do, we had a rolling drag from 30mph

When we both nailed it he pulled ahead by about a car length (turbo lag I guess) but the whole way through 2nd I sat almost beside him. Infact a few feet behind. Only when I was passing 4-5K rpm in 3rd did I begin to creep past, and I mean walking speed past... Whats going on here?!? lol I should have fleeced him

The car doesn't smoke except for some white when giving it boot, it idles fine and sounds healthy with no irregular noises coming from the engine. Any ideas whats wrong? I dont think I've over estimated the Supras performance figures but I'd hoped it would be faster than a 200bhp Type R especially since thats what I owned previously

Any ideas or suggestions would be great

Thanks

Sounds like something is very wrong. Once on song the Supra would leave any car of that level for dust. I can only put it down to no 2nd turbo or something like that.

I would suggest either getting it on a rolling road to see exactly what it's making, or just bypass the middle man and take it to somewhere to diagnose the issue.

I had a similar thing happen to me but after a closer inspection under the bonnet I found what the problem was... a NA engine.

I was surprised to say the least. I've never been a passenger in a supra so I don't know how it's suppose to 'go'. I have had a read around the forums to see if anyone else has had a similar problem but theres nothing that really matches up. The weird thing is I can actually feel the 2nd turbo and the engine has a different note when it passes 4k. A dyno is £35 -£40 in ECC not far from me so I might take it there and get it done just to see what it making. A BPU like mine should make around 350 - 380 yea?

Lol Graham at this rate a decent NA would probably embarrass me

I was surprised to say the least. I've never been a passenger in a supra so I don't know how it's suppose to 'go'. I have had a read around the forums to see if anyone else has had a similar problem but theres nothing that really matches up. The weird thing is I can actually feel the 2nd turbo and the engine has a different note when it passes 4k. A dyno is £35 -£40 in ECC not far from me so I might take it there and get it done just to see what it making. A BPU like mine should make around 350 - 380 yea?

Anything up to 400 is about the norm for the spec you are running. Depending on the dyno it's possible to see inflated figures but from what you are telling me I would be surprised if you are even at stock power.

Lol Graham at this rate a decent NA would probably embarrass me

On the roll I reckon an N/A would do similar as you did with a stock CTR. Once the speed gets up the torque of the N/A would start to dance past the CTR.

On the roll I reckon an N/A would do similar as you did with a stock CTR. Once the speed gets up the torque of the N/A would start to dance past the CTR.

Let's put it this way, if I can take a BMW 650i on a rolling run (In a TT Supra), then you shouldn't have a problem with a EP3 CTR.

Oh, think you think to pop your head into this thread... Could it be the same lad.

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?261686-Funny-Story-(Someone-with-a-turbo-civic-bantering-about-Supra!)&highlight=civic

I had made a thread not long after getting the car http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?259661-General-advice-on-engine-behaviour asking what was normal. as it didnt 'feel' faster than the civic. I thought this was just down the fact that there was no longer a kick but just constant boost but after comparing it to a friends type R which is actually *very* slightly slower than mine, I'm worried...

Thanks Abs but I dont have permission to view that link... Not sure why since im logged in and all

Edit - Nevermind, needed subscription. Done now.

We need to meet up soon as this will be the only decent kill my NA ever gets minus my grans supercharged wheelchair that is.

Thanks Abs but I dont have permission to view that link... Not sure why since im logged in and all

It's "members only", you need to pay £10 to be a full member of the forum

Something really does sound wrong with your car though bud. I would definitely get it looked at.

Thanks Abs but I dont have permission to view that link... Not sure why since im logged in and all

 

Edit - Nevermind, needed subscription. Done now.

No worries, the difference is night & day between a EP3 CTR and a stock TT

Something very wrong indeed.

Just had a read through your link and what the majority of people said about leaving civics standing is the picture I had in my head. Not 2 seconds into the race looking at his tail lights and having to crawl past him.

Graham I feel bad enough as it is with this civic problem without worrying about you getting in a wheelchair, popping a wheelie and having me at the lights

Morning Guys,

 

Was out in the supra tonight doing the usual cruising about. Its a Jap 1995 twin turbo manual RZ. It's been BPU'ed, double decat, HKS EVC 3 boost controller, HKS airfilter, 1 bar restrictor ring, kakitomo exhaust, blitz dump valve and a front mount HKS intercooler.

My friend drives a Honda Civic EP3 Type R which is pretty much stock aside from an aftermarket cat back and an AEM induction kit and as you do, we had a rolling drag from 30mph

 

When we both nailed it he pulled ahead by about a car length (turbo lag I guess) but the whole way through 2nd I sat almost beside him. Infact a few feet behind. Only when I was passing 4-5K rpm in 3rd did I begin to creep past, and I mean walking speed past... Whats going on here?!? lol I should have fleeced him

 

The car doesn't smoke except for some white when giving it boot, it idles fine and sounds healthy with no irregular noises coming from the engine. Any ideas whats wrong? I dont think I've over estimated the Supras performance figures but I'd hoped it would be faster than a 200bhp Type R especially since thats what I owned previously

 

Any ideas or suggestions would be great

 

Thanks

You should check what Spec the EP3 is. My brother has a Honda DC5 with a few bits of aftermarket items and on a pull off he can pull better because his car is a lot lighter but in second and especial third i overtake and on a rolling road im pretty sure it shouldn't be a problem.

I would say there is something not right. My mate had a civic Type R had a few mods done to it. From standing start he would be beside me in second about a length behind then once in third it was all over and that was as standard. There was a slight diffrents when I went BPU about a half a length maybe in 2nd the big diffrents was in 3rd. He now has an EVO 6 he stays with me intill we get to triple figures then I pull away and keep on pulling away. A civic shouldn't really be to much of a problem once your moving. Did you buy the supra with BPU already done or did you do it after you brought it?

The civic is conpletly stocks aside from the AEM induction kit and a scorpion cat back. Theres no weight reduction or anything else. I got the car with its BPU upgrade and haven't made any changes to it. The boost sits around 0.9 - 1.1 bar when accelerating and holds that boost all the way to about ~6.5K rpm.

Perhaps a dyno run would highlight any problems

when you say it holds 0.9-1.1 when accelerating is that all the way through the revs? just wondering if you are running ttc?

Not sure how to explain it or the best way to test but when im in 1st I could manage about .7 below 4k and slightly more after. In 3rd its about .8/.9 before 4k and 1.1/1.2 after 4k. But in 6th at 2k I could get 1.2 if I put the foot down.

Boost levels sound fine, although 1.2bar at 2k in 6th isn't right.

Its normal for your boost to become higher as you go up through the gears. For example my boost in 3rd is 1.18bar in 4th 1.21 in 5th and 6th about 1.26-1.28bar but that with foot flat to the floor and over 4000rpm. Something dosent sound right if you boosting 1.2bar at 2k rpm at the most you should be seeing 0.9bar maybe 1bar.

So I just went out and checked there to be sure on figures. Tested in 3rd. With the boost controller OFF I get ~0.6 at 2k which builds up to 0.9 as I pass 4k and then doesnt go any higher.

With the boost controller ON and in 3rd I get ~0.8 from 2k as I get closer to 4k it builds to ~1bar then from 4k onwards it gets to about 1.25

While paying close attention to acceleration and the boost guage when checking this the interesting part is with the EVC3 off its constant acceleration, with it on and when passing 4k rpm theres an 'On /Off' feeling. It's as if im lifting the accelerator then getting on it again. When on a smooth road the feeling between 4k and ~6.5k is this constant on off on off accelerator feeling however it is quite hard to notice.

Just guessing but could it be the traction control system is failing and messing with your trottle? assuming you have TC of course. Easy to try turning it off to exclude that.

Might be something wrong with the solenoid on your controller maybe?

You should get a smooth acceleration.

Think you should maybe get on a dyno so you can how it running. It might just be something simple but either way it will give you a better understanding of what is happening

Just guessing but could it be the traction control system is failing and messing with your trottle? assuming you have TC of course. Easy to try turning it off to exclude that.

Not a bad shout. It's worth a try