Out of the blue starting issues!!

I'm starting to think I have a little imp living under my bonnet who waits until I have one issue sorted and then creates another while giggling histerically and filing his nails. I really want to hurt that little fecker.

Anyway, little men aside, my car has suddenly developed an issue starting up in the morning. This began around the same time (last week) that my stereo died completely (no power to it). Upon turning the key in the morning, the engine turns healthily but doesn't fire. It takes 5 or 6 prolonged attempts turning the key fully and then off again (during which it turns over healthily) before it fires to life and the runs flawlessly the rest of the day (starting fine when I leave work for home).

Now I've read up on starter motor issues, battery problems, etc and still am none the wiser. The previous owner did a starter motor refurb about 2 years ago so I'd guess that makes that less likely. All my dash lights work fine, and fuses for stereo are fine and I don't think there are any indications that the battery is draining irregularly but that's only going by my incredibly naive mechanical and electrical prowess.

I read a thread which tied starting problems and a dead stereo to bad battery terminal connections (which I'll check at shortly) so battery seems to be the most likely at the moment but keen to know if anyone else has had a similar issue or suggestions on the best way to inflict the maximum pain and humiliation on that damn imp!

If the engine is turning over healthily as you put it that rules out the starter motor and battery.

If the engine is turning over healthily as you put it that rules out the starter motor and battery.

Thanks Dunk.... So you think it's the imp?

have you done the obvious first?

plugs

leads

filters fuel/air

timing/dizzy

have you done the obvious first?

plugs

leads

filters fuel/air

timing/dizzy

Dear Mr Mellonman,

What may seem obvious to your finely tuned mechanically experienced brain mass, may not seem so obvious to my binary tuned mechanically inept brain mass.

Now I know what a plug is, but as far as actually removing them from the big, daunting mass of metal that they sit in, by first removing the other big mass of metal on top of it, no, I've not touched them for fear of either creating the most butch jigsaw puzzle in history, one which I am about as equiped to solve as a fish is to building a lego Death Star (which, by the way, is awesome!). I can see many leads under the bonnet, but no matter how much I stare at or prod them, I'm still no closer to knowing either where they go and what they do, or whether they are actually going where they are supposed to go or doing what they are supposed to do.

There is a fuel filter and an air filter fitted, but again, as far as telling whether they are filtering the air and fuel as designed to do, I'm a little in the dark.

And what on earth is dizzy timing?

I suddenly feel so inept....

You need to get a nice member local to you that knows a bit about the basics at least

and have a look for you, or you need to find a good local garage that has a good mechanic

that can have a look for you.

When was it last serviced ? and what parts did it get.

Ignition components or fuel filter imo..

Seriously though, the car was serviced recently, and fluids were changed. Fuel filter I assume wasn't. Air filter was fitted about 14 months ago along with a custom filter arm so shouldn't be clogged up yet. I can hear it sucking like a hoover. I've checked the distributor and made sure all the leads are tight, but have not pulled them off to check for blockages. I'm thinking that since the car runs perfectly once started and this problem only occurs in the morning, that it cant be plugs, leads or fuelling.

I went out and checked the battery which is securely fitted and the terminals are connected properly.

You need to get a nice member local to you that knows a bit about the basics at least

and have a look for you, or you need to find a good local garage that has a good mechanic

that can have a look for you.

 

When was it last serviced ? and what parts did it get.

Lol.. sorry Dunk, my post above was tongue in cheek borne out of a slow day at work. I'm not as inept as I made out although I'm no mechanic. Jurgen's brother serviced the car last month and changed fluids and filters (not air or fuel though as far as I know). I've checked as much as I can with my limited knowledge and my skill at searching forums. I'm just looking for some additional ideas for things to check to either diagnose the problem before taking it to a pro, or at least rule out a few things.

Dear Mr Mellonman,

 

What may seem obvious to your finely tuned mechanically experienced brain mass, may not seem so obvious to my binary tuned mechanically inept brain mass.

 

Now I know what a plug is, but as far as actually removing them from the big, daunting mass of metal that they sit in, by first removing the other big mass of metal on top of it, no, I've not touched them for fear of either creating the most butch jigsaw puzzle in history, one which I am about as equiped to solve as a fish is to building a lego Death Star (which, by the way, is awesome!). I can see many leads under the bonnet, but no matter how much I stare at or prod them, I'm still no closer to knowing either where they go and what they do, or whether they are actually going where they are supposed to go or doing what they are supposed to do.

There is a fuel filter and an air filter fitted, but again, as far as telling whether they are filtering the air and fuel as designed to do, I'm a little in the dark.

And why on earth is the timing dizzy?

 

I suddenly feel so inept....

i love your total hosisty, or are you winding me up?

i take it from your garrage that you have a n/a (non turbo)

this mean that you will have a distutor cap (dizzy cap) as a rota spins inside making contacts for each spark plug to make then get power to spark, they are normally black and will have 6 leads coming from it to the spark plugs. the plugs will be in the top middle of the engine 6 in total running front to back of the engine,

the timing of the car is down to the dizzy cap and can be rotated to adjust the timing. the contacts in there need to be kept clean.

the fuel filter can get cloged with impureties as can the air filter.

but as you have not changed nothing yet i would say start with the plugs if they was not changed when the car was serviced last.

Seriously though, the car was serviced recently, and fluids were changed. Fuel filter I assume wasn't. Air filter was fitted about 14 months ago along with a custom filter arm so shouldn't be clogged up yet. I can hear it sucking like a hoover. I've checked the distributor and made sure all the leads are tight, but have not pulled them off to check for blockages. I'm thinking that since the car runs perfectly once started and this problem only occurs in the morning, that it cant be plugs, leads or fuelling.

I went out and checked the battery which is securely fitted and the terminals are connected properly.

You should check your dizzy cap and rotor arm go take some pictures of inside the dizzy cap and we will have a look at them and see if they are worn - you only need a phillips screwdriver so its nothing too out of your depth

pop in next week and we can take a look,

Cold start sensor perhaps

Your problem is either ignition related or fueling related

Lol.. sorry Dunk, my post above was tongue in cheek borne out of a slow day at work. I'm not as inept as I made out although I'm no mechanic.

i knew it

You should check your dizzy cap and rotor arm go take some pictures of inside the dizzy cap and we will have a look at them and see if they are worn - you only need a phillips screwdriver so its nothing too out of your depth

What ever you do don't pull the leads off the dizzy cap or you'll be properly goosed

What ever you do don't pull the leads off the dizzy cap or you'll be properly goosed

Just take it off and get a picture *Grins*

- or label them if you dont know the firing order

Just take it off and get a picture *Grins*

- or label them if you dont know the firing order

Lol... I never take more than 1 dizzy (honestly never heard it referred to as that ) lead off at a time for that very reason! I'll give them a bit of a clean to see if that helps. New iridiums were fitted about 14 months ago so they should still have plenty of life left. I may check the easily accessibly ones to see the state of the electrodes.

its the 6 points inside the dizzy cap that may just need a quick clean/light sandpaper running over - it could rectify your problem instantly.

If the caps a bit old just fit a new one with a new rotor arm, genuine Toyota aren't that much money but

obviously you could get an upgraded higer performance one for half the price on ebay

Folks, just a quick update. All I did tonight was pull the leads off the dizzy and clean them one by one. Not only did my stereo start up again but it appears (I'll be able to test better tomorrow) that my 9 month aircon amnesty is also over. I'll know next week if the starting issues are fixed but I can't see it being anything else.

Thanks for the suggestions all and I think I may still take an emery cloth to the inside points and rotor arm to do a proper job. I tried to get the dizzy off tonight and failed though. Took the 3x 8mm bolts off but the dizzy just sat there staring at me. It wouldn't budge and I didn't want to force it in case I missed a bolt or catch. So what's the secret? Brute force or some other trick I've missed?

Cold start sensor perhaps

 

Your problem is either ignition related or fueling related

Same as, once its started its warm enough not to rely on cold start for the rest of the day.