Advice needed on going single.

I am currently investigating the max rpm limit and whp/tq the stock 2jzgte bottom end can handle.

I know some of this has been covered but everywhere i read theres different opinions.

My guess from all this researching would be 650-700Rwhp and 7500Rpm limit being the max for a stock bottom end.

Am i right or wrong?

Really need some help with this to decide my setup.

Current setup:

- Whifbitz twin wastegate 66mm batmowheel with rerouted wastegates.

- Whifbitz FMIC kit

- Emanage ultimate

- Considering e85 as i have an e85 pump 1 mile from where i live.

- Twin walbro

- Injectors (waiting for decission on e85)

- GSC S1 cams

- GSC Beehive springs

- Reshimming

- Stock bottom end (60k miles according to Keron)

- V16X

- Cant decide for clutch either, currently leaning towards carbonetic twin disc.

- Meister R suspension setup

- 15mm spacers on the back

- 3'' turboback with blitz catback

- New belts

- Oil filter

- Adjustable ebay cam gears (5bolt)

- Sandwich plate for gauges

- New crank pulley

Goals:

650-700Rwhp

What has been done:

Converted my NA-T to 2JZGTE without stock twins

Swapped my Torsen 5spd LSD to a Torsen auto 3.7LSD

Awaiting opinions

I think you're about right with the rotating assembly estimate. The main thing is to start with a low mileage or rebuilt block with new bearings, as you'll have higher rev's with tighter tolerances. ARP rod bolts might be worthwhile but I was told that they're good for 1000hp+ stock.

Each engine will be different as it's all down to the weakest link.

My engine has 60k miles, would you suggest opening it and replacing all the bearings?

At least putting ARP rod bolts in there.

At least putting ARP rod bolts in there.

Was definitly considering this. Can i just replace the old bolts or does it require machining/inspection?

ARP bolts.

What brakes do you have? Brake lines?

When were pumps changed/ Rear/front main seal? How old is your rad?

Why twin walbros and not a single 044?

At 60K I would be surprised if the bearings are even slightly marked, change the rod bolts for ARP (straight swap) and replace the oil pump.

ARP bolts.

 

What brakes do you have? Brake lines?

 

When were pumps changed/ Rear/front main seal? How old is your rad?

 

Why twin walbros and not a single 044?

Jspec brakes, Goodridge lines, Porterfield pads, G3 grooved discs.

Brakes are in no need of improving yet, they operate very well.

Stock engine, nothing changed or replaced. Rad is also 60k miles old in good condition.

A single 044 would struggle fueling 700Rwhp, 2 walbro's won't.

Jspec brakes, Goodridge lines, Porterfield pads, G3 grooved discs.

Brakes are in no need of improving yet, they operate very well.

 

Stock engine, nothing changed or replaced. Rad is also 60k miles old in good condition.

 

A single 044 would struggle fueling 700Rwhp, 2 walbro's won't.

I think J-spec brakes would struggle to slow down 700bhp too!

I think J-spec brakes would struggle to slow down 700bhp too!

700 rwhp! so j specs are out the window!!!

What would be the reason to replace an oil pump. Wouldnt i first check it and see if it is worn or not?

Edit.

I think J-spec brakes would struggle to slow down 700bhp too!

Its not about the horsepower that needs compensating with bigger and stronger brakes imo.

Bigger brakes are needed when higher speeds are reached, not a certain amount of horsepower.

My brakes go in ABS @ 160km/h on dry surface, and you get slammed into the harnesses. Besides i have a 3.7 diff so my car wont really go much faster

then 290km/h. I allready tested the brakes at 250km/h, they do really well.

One more thing, if wheels start to go into ABS with these jspec brakes on dry tarmac,

what would bigger brakes do? See where im going?

Think if i go big brakes i need big tires too.

Its not about the horsepower that needs compensating with bigger and stronger brakes imo.

Bigger brakes are needed when higher speeds are reached, not a certain amount of horsepower.

My brakes go in ABS @ 160km/h on dry surface, and you get slammed into the harnesses. Besides i have a 3.7 diff so my car wont really go much faster

then 290km/h. I allready tested the brakes at 250km/h, they do really well.

What about if you put your foot down and need to slow down suddenly (police, someone running out in the road, red light etc.)? I'd upgrade the brakes if it were me.

Here's a reason why I wouldn't of bought one of those.

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/406932_2560033078845_1194572035_32320090_144002538_n.jpg

 

Do you self a favour and get rid. I feel sorry for anyone who has bought such utter crap!

Did the batmowheel cause that or the manifold?

What about if you put your foot down and need to slow down suddenly (police, someone running out in the road, red light etc.)? I'd upgrade the brakes if it were me.

You dont put your right foot down and brake at the same time, thats silly haha.

I only drive fast where im safely able too.

what would bigger brakes do? See where im going?

It isn't about how well they work once, it's about how they cope with repeated use. The bigger brakes disperse heat more effectively, meaning less brake fade and it's harder to boil the fluid. If you ever take your car on track and use it properly you'll find out very quickly why J-spec brakes aren't brilliant at hauling such a car down from high speeds. The UK ones are excellent value for money and I'd fit them at BPU, let alone at 700bhp.

Did the batmowheel cause that or the manifold?

That's how they come from bullseye.

That's how they come from bullseye.

Interesting, any more shots? Worthwhile a separate thread on these to not go OT for the OP?

OP - as Gaz said, not only do they prevent fade on many hard stops - but we are talking about a larger pad face, larger disc, those in themselves will dissipate energy more than the j-specs - it's not just the contact patch : grip that gives the point where ABS would hit - it's energy dissipation.

Also yes, we all try to accelerate at a sensible moment - but you're not counting for other people's stupidity.

Suddenly on a stretch of road where you used to hit 70, you're now hitting 100-120 for instance, the energy required to brake at higher speeds is higher (not sure if it's quite logarithmic) but more power = quicker gain in kinetic energy. In a single I WOT far less than I did in an NA that's fer sure!

As for rad/oil pump - I'd just be looking at their service intervals - if you're doing an overhaul for a single - wouldn't it be prudent to have best OEM components where they are OEM wherever possible? I guess that's just my philosophy.

Interesting, any more shots? Worthwhile a separate thread on these to not go OT for the OP?

 

OP - as Gaz said, not only do they prevent fade on many hard stops - but we are talking about a larger pad face, larger disc, those in themselves will dissipate energy more than the j-specs - it's not just the contact patch : grip that gives the point where ABS would hit - it's energy dissipation.

 

Also yes, we all try to accelerate at a sensible moment - but you're not counting for other people's stupidity.

 

Suddenly on a stretch of road where you used to hit 70, you're now hitting 100-120 for instance, the energy required to brake at higher speeds is higher (not sure if it's quite logarithmic) but more power = quicker gain in kinetic energy. In a single I WOT far less than I did in an NA that's fer sure!

 

As for rad/oil pump - I'd just be looking at their service intervals - if you're doing an overhaul for a single - wouldn't it be prudent to have best OEM components where they are OEM wherever possible? I guess that's just my philosophy.

That bulseye looks pretty mangled from out of the box.

I get the bigger brakes idea now. But i wont be using the car on track.

Every once in a while i WOT, i allways keep in mind the brakes wont overheat.

I did this even at NA lvl. Still i also think it would be a better idea to invest in brakes also when

searching this kind of power.

Think ill just inspect the oil pump, if it looks worn or old ill replace it. If it doesnt ill leave it as it is.

Edit.

Just to clarify the reason to buy bigger brakes as caseys et al were saying - and I apologise in advance for getting quite technical here but you already understand anyway - you need an increased rate of deceleration to the ABS actuation limit, as acceleration is the square of velocity, (or should that be the other way round? Probably not atall!), so the same goes for deceleration, that is, twice the speed requires four times the energy dissipation, so in other words, there is much more momentum in the car for what is only a little more speed and it's momentum that needs to be reduced, since you can slow down to say, 40 but still be carrying much more momentum than the guy next to you who braked earlier (or stronger) and can accelerate out of a corner, for example, while you struggle to stay on the track at the same speed leading in.

Think of momentum as another smaller car inside yours, where everything is fine as long as you're both going the same speed but yours is the only one with brakes, (hence the invention of seatbelts), so even as you brake, there's still a separate force pushing you along that needs to be tamed.

The faster you accelerate, the quicker the car builds momentum, which is what might catch you out if you're not careful and bigger brakes kill momentum much quicker than small ones. I know you said you'd not use the car on a track but if you did, you could brake later and keep more momentum going through a corner under control, thus giving you the winning advantage.

Besides, I have some 356mm D2 8 pots for sale!

Just to clarify the reason to buy bigger brakes as caseys et al were saying - and I apologise in advance for getting quite technical here but you already understand anyway - you need an increased rate of deceleration to the ABS actuation limit, as acceleration is the square of velocity, (or should that be the other way round? Probably not atall!), so the same goes for deceleration, that is, twice the speed requires four times the energy dissipation, so in other words, there is much more momentum in the car for what is only a little more speed and it's momentum that needs to be reduced, since you can slow down to say, 40 but still be carrying much more momentum than the guy next to you who braked earlier (or stronger) and can accelerate out of a corner, for example, while you struggle to stay on the track at the same speed leading in.

 

Think of momentum as another smaller car inside yours, where everything is fine as long as you're both going the same speed but yours is the only one with brakes, (hence the invention of seatbelts), so even as you brake, there's still a separate force pushing you along that needs to be tamed.

 

The faster you accelerate, the quicker the car builds momentum, which is what might catch you out if you're not careful and bigger brakes kill momentum much quicker than small ones. I know you said you'd not use the car on a track but if you did, you could brake later and keep more momentum going through a corner under control, thus giving you the winning advantage.

 

Besides, I have some 356mm D2 8 pots for sale!

Manny thanks for this explanation, you clarified allot for me and propably others too.

But still i wont be using my car on track and will propably look for better brakes later on.

First build the car so its working properly as it sits now without a gearbox and turbokit.

Would an emanage ultimate be good enough for the 650/700Rwhp range?

Would an emanage ultimate be good enough for the 650/700Rwhp range?

Being a person who's run a single on an EMB and recently switched to Syvecs after a little research and a lot of advice, I would myself advise a piggyback no matter how good will not replace the ground up design that a full standalone unit will do.

With a proper standalone ECU you can have many inputs that'll help performance but also protect your engine - i.e. pressure sensor trips, temp sensor trips, better trac control, more sensitive knock/afr/egt monitoring.

Can I ask what gauges you currently have / plan to have for things? Boost? EGT? AFR? Fuel/oil/water temp/pressures?

If you're ploughing as you say a total of circa 20-25k of euro into your car - don't scrimp on the engine management nor vitally the inputs into it. Brains with brawn.

I can say you're choosing a good manifold and FMIC, I have both

Why have gauges? if you get the BEST ecu you can and have it mapped by the BEST then there is really no need for gauges, i think they look messy and im trying to steer clear of gauges... apart from my gearbox gauge.

Brakes are going to struggle mate, i have jspecs on mine and im looking to upgrade ASAP as i cant see them lasting 5mins, they are bad enough on a na