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wet driving


Whitesupraboy2
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Basically just to bring notice of the Newbie's who may not of driven a rear wheel drive car before espically in wet.

 

Today a few spats of rain had landed and i was going round a corner perfectly fine next thing i know i felt back wanting to go,luckerly i was not going fast so was easyerly controllable.

 

So looks like that winter weather is creeping back for good.

 

Just wanted to let the newbie's know to be careful in wet unless you have RLTC. The supra can be a bit of handlefull on some wet roads....and as for snow...lets not go there!

 

Also watch out for diesel spills which caught me out back in November last year i think.

 

Just trying to save a few lost supras in the coming months :thumbs:

 

anyone else with tips pelase feel free to add

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General rule: easy gently off the power. Don't lift completely or the weight will transfer forwards as you suddenly slow down and give you even less grip at the back. Of course saying that and doing it in the heat of the moment are two different things!

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Originally posted by whitesupraboy2

Just wanted to let the newbie's know to be careful in wet unless you have RLTC. The supra can be a bit of handlefull on some wet roads....and as for snow...lets not go there!

 

RLTC doesn't stop the car from sliding, it stops the wheels from spinning under acceleration. If you go round a corner too fast in the wet, RLTC is not going to stop the rears from loosing traction and sliding sideways. Maybe a point to remember. ;)

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I would say be even MORE careful if you have some electronic traction control fitted ! They give you a sense of security which may not be there on certain types of road conditions.

As already mentioned if you go in too fast your tyres have a certain amount of grip and no amount of electronic aid is going to stop them from going past their grip limit.

 

I would say to guys who are new to RWD to not have any traction control aids to start off with. Get used to gently feeding in the power and work upto a level where you feel the tyres starting to get to their limit. Do lots of practice in the wet in OPEN areas of tarmac; not on the roads. As you will be able to learn how much grip is available on your brand of tyre.

Try doing continuous circles and feeding in more and more power each lap. Then try blipping the throttle on certain laps and practise 'catching' the slide and correcting it.

 

I always think is dangerous to be new to RWD and jump into a high powered car with electronic systems 'helping' you out while you are thinking that your car will go round any corner at any speed.

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Originally posted by AJI

 

I would say to guys who are new to RWD to not have any traction control aids to start off with. Get used to gently feeding in the power and work upto a level where you feel the tyres starting to get to their limit. Do lots of practice in the wet in OPEN areas of tarmac; not on the roads. As you will be able to learn how much grip is available on your brand of tyre.

Try doing continuous circles and feeding in more and more power each lap. Then try blipping the throttle on certain laps and practise 'catching' the slide and correcting it.

 

All good advice. I'd look at your tyres now, some won't know how much tread they have left, some might not even know the brand or if they do they might not know comparatively how good it is. Poor tyres can make the sup a handful as soon as its wet, most poor tyres don't get found out by owners when its dry as they do an ok job.

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Its actually more hazardous at this time of year in the wet than it is in the winter. At this time of the year we have hot spells which draws oils and greases to just under the surface of tarmac. When it rains this oils and grease floats to the surface (thats the oily smell you get when it rains in the summer). Obviously these oily spots aren't even so they can catch out unsuspecting drivers.. Also in the summer you are used to driving on dry roads so naturally carry a bit more speed which is difficult to tame on individual mornings when it rains for instance.

 

Traction control aids do work and IMO will save a lot of drivers from dinking their cars in situations where they put their foot down too far at the wrong place in a corner. It won't save anyone that developes an over confident invincible approach. Theres no TC on my N/A and the back end snapped out on me twice which would not have happened with TC because I have simulated the same relative speed and conditions in my TC equipped similarly powered omega and the car just cut the power back preventing the back end stepping out. It only takes a fraction of a second at the wrong time for the back to step out, TC reacts to that and stops it before it happens.

 

I doubt than many people will take the time to learn the skills you mention so I would not reccomend turning TC off till they do learn.

 

I got lucky with mine and managed to not over-react too much. Generally speaking its not the initial tail out that results in a smash but the over-reaction that happens afterwards.

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Guest supraaman

As AJI said, I think the best way of all is to find somewhere very quite (preferably not on the road), and have a bit of a 'play'. It really helps more than you'd believe, and nxt time you get into a "predicament" you'll correct it without thinking!

 

Driver aids are ok, but i've never been a fan personally. While they probably do assist some of the less experienced drivers, i feel people become to reliant on these aids to help them out!

Use them as a back-up, not your first port of call!

 

Stay safe!:D

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I think that the reason RLTC works so well with the supra, is mainly because of the savage power delivery when the second turbo comes in.

I think that this very non linear power delivery makes it much more difficult to predict when the tyres are going to break traction in the wet.

Makes sense to me, anyway. I wish I didnt need the rl, and will try to live without it in my next supe, for a while, but I still think it makes the car a LOT easier to drive (in the wet) :)

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Hi

 

I would do a search on Traction Control, as the stock system can catch you out especially in the wet.

 

Old rubber will also cause problems with grip levels.

 

Standard diffs also add to your wet weather excitement.

 

Coming straight to a MKIV from front wheels drive is quite a leap so take care especially in just damp conditions.

 

As for TC I have only been driving RWD cars over 200 bhp for 20 years, so probably come in the inexperienced class;). I had never used any TC device before my MKIV TT The stock system was not much good when the car was driven hard, but RLTC is completely different, I think it is an excellent system. But as Barry pointed out it wont stop you going sideways if you have too much lateral momentum for the grip available.

 

There are many critics of RLTC who have never used it.:flame Dev

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3 weeks after I got my TT I approached a roundabout a little too enthusiastically and then proceeded to skate round it sideways!!!! Frightened the sh*t outa me!!!! Had Race Logic fitted now you feel the car cautioning you if you take a corner or bend to swiftly, the rear wheels judder and you know to stand off the gas a little. Its thhe only mod I have donne but well worth the money IMO.

 

Sheena:)

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Loads of guys seem to think it an essential piece of kit but if you just learn to control your right foot you'd save yourself a load of money.

 

If you're going ot drive a RWD car close to the limit then you have to be always thinking of where the weight is acting at any one point in time and more so when you are going round corners. With a TC system this line of thought is no longer required as the electronics are doing all the thinking for you, so to speak.

I think that you loose so much of the driving expereience with TC systems helping you out and you 'loose' the ability to know for sure how much grip is available.

 

Sure they are great if you are doing straight line racing all the time when you want to get the available traction to hook up everytime without thinking but I seem to get the feeling that a lot of us Supra owners go out and buy a TC system without getting used to the grip limits of our cars. And that can only be a disadvantage because the Supra was built for driving !

 

I've got nothing against RLTC whatsoever I just think that guys rush out and but it without thinking they could save the money and simply control their right foot more.

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Although I do not dispute what your saying, I think there are some occassions when it is not only advisable but dowright essential to install safety factors like RLTC, for instance: I did it because my car is not just a playthingg I have to do 2 school runs a day in termtime and even more running around with kids in the holidays, I was'nt prepared to risk my kids safety for anything. I also think it unfair to assume that because drivers choose to install RLTC that we therefore all have heavy right feet cozz that's just plain untrue. a lot of the time when driving the car I am totally llegal and keep to within the speed limits or pretty near, the rare times I do decide to play I give my car the greatest respect, lets face it if you don't she's gonna turn round a bite ya in the butt!!!!!!!!!Lol.

 

Regards,

Sheena:)

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Originally posted by Amazing grace

Although I do not dispute what your saying, I think there are some occassions when it is not only advisable but dowright essential to install safety factors like RLTC, for instance: I did it because my car is not just a playthingg I have to do 2 school runs a day in termtime and even more running around with kids in the holidays, I was'nt prepared to risk my kids safety for anything. I also think it unfair to assume that because drivers choose to install RLTC that we therefore all have heavy right feet cozz that's just plain untrue. a lot of the time when driving the car I am totally llegal and keep to within the speed limits or pretty near, the rare times I do decide to play I give my car the greatest respect, lets face it if you don't she's gonna turn round a bite ya in the butt!!!!!!!!!Lol.

 

Regards,

Sheena:)

 

 

See thats my point exactly. There are a lot of drivers that are not going to spend the time looking for somewhere to hoon about in order to learn their cars. There are a huge majority that won't hoon about fullstop!!! Sheena you say you stick to the legal limits etc well it was at perfectly legal non-hooning about type driving that saw the back end of ours step out on us both times it happened to me in a big way. First time was at 15 mph second at about 25 mph. Its the unexpected adverse camber, the roundabout exit that has something in the way unexpectedly, the patch of water or deposit upon the road that will catch you out and have that ass end out. Non-hooning drivers won't stand a fighting chance if they don't have Traction aids!!!

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Everyone is entitled to their own point of view, mine is just that I don't think TC systems are required if you know the limits of your car.

When you say patches of oil or changes in surface grip levels then this is more to do with grip levels from tyres rather than traction. ie. if you go round a corner when there is oil in the road then it will come down to how much grip your tyres can take from it and not how much power you are able to put onto the road.

TC systems do not give you more grip.... they don't somehow turn your tyres into the softest most grippiest rubber in the world for a second or two when its needed.

Also when you're pootling around your not going to need a TC system anyway are you?

 

The Supra has great grip in both the wet and the dry and if you don't know how much grip is available then how can you predict how much trust you can put into a TC system for taking a corner at a certain speed. This is basically going to come back to trial and error which is the same as not having a TC system in the first place.

 

Just coming back to a point that Amazning Grace mentioned about assuming that RLTC drivers have heavy right feet. I wasn't realy making that assumption but if you feel the need to have a TC system installed then that does mean that you must exceed the grip limits of your tyres on some occasions (do you?). Otherwise there's no need for a TC system. Therefore to exceed the grip limits of your already wide tyres you must be giving it some heavy right foot at some point.

 

Please don't take any of the above as a gripe at the effectiveness or the quality of RLTC, I'm just interested as to why a lot of you guys rush out and buy expensive TC systems when all it takes is more control and thought of what your right foot is doing.

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Originally posted by Terminator

You should try a standing 1/4 in standing water with RLTC.:D :devil:

 

Amen to that. I annoyed my mate big style with my old supe and RLTC. Absolutely peeing down with rain, me and him on a dual carriageway at some lights, national limit, me outside him inside.

 

His car - 350bhp 1999 Subaru Impreza Turbo AWD

 

Me - J Spec Auto TT Supe with RLTC prob running similar power.

 

Flicked the Racelogic into Wet mode. Lights change, I nail it, he nails it - I WIN!!! :p So much for Impreza grip ;)

 

:D

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Can someone tell me how RLTC works in the following example (just curious)

 

you are accelerating round a motorway slip (one of those 270 degree jobbies) and the traction is working away but then the corner radius tightens (or perhaps the road surface changes to one with lower grip), when you steer a tighter line all the tc can do is stop all power but for the car to actually slow will take a little time. Now unless there is quite a traction margin on the RL that means in my mind that you could suddenly be in possible loose the back end situation. Now you could (sensibly) say that you should not be going that fast perhaps but the RL was working away so not problem right?

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I think the point I am trying to make here is being missed totally. I am not talking up RLTC at all. What I am saying is that for a large number of people A traction control system on high powered rear wheel drive car is a good thing.

 

 

I mean the average driver on the street that doesn't want to see just how fast they can do a corner every time. The sort of person that gets in their car in the morning and just drives it to work. That kind of person is going to find the back end stepping out on them once in a blue moon and when it does happen they won't be prepared for it and it may well be the last time it happens to them in that car!!.

 

The kind of stepping out I am reffering to isn't the OMG I am coming into this corner too fast type (TC won't do bugger all for ya if u've done that) I am reffering to the exit of a roundabout and unwittingly given it too much gas too early (I'm not talking planting your foot here just a little too much gas). Or the apex of a bend, or one wheel under power losing traction on various stuff(not hoofing it round corners). Without TC that backend will be going past you before you even realise it. TC will stop that from happening, you will know its just saved ya cos the trac light will be flashing away and the backend will have wobbled a bit).

 

I have had my paltry N/A that doesn't even have turbo surge to deal with and the back end on that all but overtook me twice. I was very lucky that it did it where I had lots of space and a tad of luck to recover it. I did the old fishtail OMG OMG and they were both sub 30 mph tailouts. I have traction control on my omega and in very similar conditions on exactly the same corner I pushed the car knowingly over the limit and the traction caught it before the backend even moved a foot out of line.

 

For skilled drivers that take the time to find somewhere to push their vehicles limits to find and learn them limits yes I agree TC is probably not the best piece of kit in the world. For everyone else (and this is the majority) TC will at some point save their car I can guarantee it.

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Originally posted by dangerous brain

 

I mean the average driver on the street that doesn't want to see just how fast they can do a corner every time. The sort of person that gets in their car in the morning and just drives it to work. That kind of person is going to find the back end stepping out on them once in a blue moon and when it does happen they won't be prepared for it and it may well be the last time it happens to them in that car!!.

 

 

point taken, but bar Sheena i don't think many buy it for this reason. They buy it so they can go faster with less brown trouser moments. I like to look on my overeager/lossing traction moments as little reminders/reality checks.

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Theres also people like me that don't even have stock TC and I know I would have benefitted from it initially. Both my scares were in my first month of ownership before I had chance to find some safe corners and roundabouts to push it a bit on. Again I am not advocating RLTC or the buying of it just stating a good case for traction Control on any high powered rear wheel drive car is all.

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