engine rebuild and track prep help.

Hi all.

Been a while since i posted on here. Still i see a lot of old names still floating around.

Anyway, my old supra has come out of hiding and i have decided i want to turn it into a track car. The car has a good spec around the outside of the engine but now im going to concentrate on the insides.

So what do i need internally inside the engine? Im looking at making around 600-700 rwhp. Dont forget this will be a track car running slick tyres etc so will be under a lot more force than a road supra.

One of my bores has damage so i will be boring the block and running over sized forged pistons.

Do i need rods?

what bearings?

What head bolts?

What head gasket?

What cambelt?

Do i need a better oil pump?

Do i need sump baffles or a extended sump?

Should i be changing other parts aswell?

I have tried searching but cant really find any solid information. found a nice bent rod pic tho out of Jamiep's car (very impressive) !

Thanks for any advice.

Just had my engine rebuilt mate to handle that sort of power. If u click my garage u can see the full spec

Rods

Pistons

Bearings

Oil pump

Cambelt

Billet tensioner bracket

The list goes on

Mahle pistons and BC pro rods is a nice combo that dont break the bank, stock/new oil pump is fine, as is stock head gasket, Leave the sump alone.

thankyou for your replies

So to conclude,

uprate

pistons

rods

bearings/bolts (arp / acl???)

billet tenstioner (tilton ?? )

Oil pump is o.k using stock?

What make cambelt? is stock o.k?

Headgasket is o.k using stock?

What about things like harmonic dampeners? Again skylines can suffer with harmonics damaging the oil pump.

Are we sure the sump will be o.k on a track car? sorry for double checking but im paranoid after owning a skyline!

Also what is the max you should bore the block. I think i can get away with some 86.5mm pistons but i may need 87mm. Is 87mm pushing it on a high power track car?

Just had my engine rebuilt mate to handle that sort of power. If u click my garage u can see the full spec

Hi Jamesy, had a look at your spec. I see you dont mention pistons or rods tho? is your 742 bhp at the flywheel or the wheels?

Also i see you have = Injector Clinic 2150cc Injectors ?????? is that each i take it? what does it drive like at slow speeds and tick over?

O and to ask everyone else. What can sort of power can the stock fuel system supply? i see on PHR website it suggests 500 RWHP. What size are the stock injectors then?

Strip the car to within a gram of falling apart - low weight means less braking mass , less mass transfer , and less mass to accelerate .

Then gear the car for it's track use

then you don't need the higher power and it's traction issues

cam and turbo selected for your powerband with gearing and weight

talk to CW ref suspension - simples

Prob the fastest 2JZ on the forum is using as many stock parts as possible, crank / rods and definatly NOT ACL race bearings, so basically I don't know anymore.

Like Adam says, less weight needs less power and brakes far less parts.

Hi mate. 742 fly wheel mate. Yeah stock rods and pistons.

The big injectors are fine at slow speeds mate, has all been mapped in and yeah thats 2050cc each one

My 742hp was made on stock fuel lines and a single bosch 044. But it was maxed out.

Strip the car to within a gram of falling apart - low weight means less braking mass , less mass transfer , and less mass to accelerate .

Then gear the car for it's track use

then you don't need the higher power and it's traction issues

cam and turbo selected for your powerband with gearing and weight

talk to CW ref suspension - simples

Yes mate, im trying to reduce weight. But as i remove weight i seem to be putting it back in with cages, bigger coolers etc. Still im sure i will weigh in less than stock but not by much. Also to my disavantage is im keeping the car road legal to drive to the track and nip to the shops in.

Prob the fastest 2JZ on the forum is using as many stock parts as possible, crank / rods and definatly NOT ACL race bearings, so basically I don't know anymore.

Like Adam says, less weight needs less power and brakes far less parts.

Is this a Drag car or a Track car. Im not dough-ting that the 'quickest' car on here is stock parts, but running around a track puts a hell of a lot more strain on the engine than a car that gets run for 8-10 seconds down a strip and then cooled etc at the end of it.

I do presume your talking Drag car mate? if it is a track car making loads of power you are about to save me a lot of money LOL.

Is this a Drag car or a Track car. Im not dough-ting that the 'quickest' car on here is stock parts, but running around a track puts a hell of a lot more strain on the engine than a car that gets run for 8-10 seconds down a strip and then cooled etc at the end of it.

 

I do presume your talking Drag car mate? if it is a track car making loads of power you are about to save me a lot of money LOL.

I know what you mean but if this can take 1400hp for most of the season wuith not 1 problem surely the problem of running half that if the cooling is right is worth the risk, the motor is VERY well built with attention to detail, but you can buy a lot of stock bottom ends for Carrillo and billet main money !!! BTW go Clevite style bearings PW does em

Whats wrong with ACL bearings? i use them and never had an issue with them.

Whats wrong with ACL bearings? i use them and never had an issue with them.

The ACL race bearing is a very hard bearing, it will take more abuse than say a clevite BUT when it lets go the crank will pretty much be a goner, now call me old fashioned but I would rather pay £100 for a new set of bearings rather than £3500 for a new stroker crank, Gosnays sell ACL bearings but dont reccomend them, they did a test for a mag a while ago and the ACL bearinged motors looked in Adrians words like they had been to hell and back, plus the clevites have no coating so can be taken down very carefully to acheive the exact clearance you require, my big ends were acl in the last motor and mains clevites, the big ends look only OK the mains look like they have not run, basically I would rather wear a bearing out than a crank.

Its a moot point as its now very hard to get ACL as Mahle have been buying them all up !!!!!

The Engine stress is due the load(weight) of the car - get a trailer and save the monster fuel bill driving a 600hp car to the track!!

Also any failure at the track and you can get home!!

You can prep the car before each race -load it on trailer - then just final checks and away you go !!

You have space for wheels and tools etc too

Paul W - races a supra , give him a call and get some advice , see how hard it is chasing light low power cars!!

The Engine stress is due the load(weight) of the car - get a trailer and save the monster fuel bill driving a 600hp car to the track!!

Also any failure at the track and you can get home!!

You can prep the car before each race -load it on trailer - then just final checks and away you go !!

You have space for wheels and tools etc too

Paul W - races a supra , give him a call and get some advice , see how hard it is chasing light low power cars!!

I was using my supra to tow my real track monster there. With the option of using the supra for the rest of the track day if the other car failed LOL. (well its a skyline so it desting to blow up)

on a serious note. I really hate towing mate. I said never again after a incident with my Skyline on trailer last year. Lucky for me there was no crash but came very close. From now on i will drive my track toys there and if they break i will get them recovered. O and a set of slicks fits in both the skyline and the supra so no worries there.

I know what you mean but if this can take 1400hp for most of the season wuith not 1 problem surely the problem of running half that if the cooling is right is worth the risk, the motor is VERY well built with attention to detail, but you can buy a lot of stock bottom ends for Carrillo and billet main money !!! BTW go Clevite style bearings PW does em

Yes mate, its half the power. But if you do the maths on what the engine is been asked to do a Drag Car is given a much easier life engine wise. Lets presume this Drag car does 60 runs in that season at what ?? 8 seconds for that BHP? well that is actually under 1 minute of track time. Thats not even 1 lap of most tracks around the U.k.

So lets say i want to do 60 laps on Donington for instance at 1 minute per lap, that is the same as 3'600 drag runs in comparison if my maths are correct. (which i dought as im Dyslexic!)

Add into this the fact that i will be running high temps for maybe 1 hour and no oil changes etc. The drag car in compassion will maybe see high temps for maybe 3 seconds each run? I would also guess it would see 3-4 fresh oil changes over the season?

Also regarding the crank bearings. im confused on the stock v ACL. If a bearing lets go/wears then the crank is going to be scrap what ever happens! End of the day a bearing should not let go unless its starved of oil. This is why im double questioning the stock oil setup of a supra, i have run bearings before due to lack of oil. Again going back to my Skyline i run wide ACL bearings with a baffled sump and a Accusump to protect the bottom end.

To me the difference is massive between a track car and a drag car with what you ask the engine to do.

does anyone else have any thing to add to this?

Like engine damper etc?

Thanks

FWIW: Full belt for 25 minutes round Donington is VASTLY different to drag runs, the thermal loads are constant for nearly half an hour, as are revs in at least the top third of the rev range. Very few people seem to run a MKIV like this. Paul's Whifbitz cars do some longish races. I think 600 BHP with a wide torque band is a reliable figure to aim for. If I was building MYSELF an engine for this it would have:

Stock block at stock bore, ideally, or 1st oversize, bored and honed by someone that knows how to, and has the machinery to make and hone round parallel holes. The block should have virtually NO internal corrosion in the water galleries, and have a perfect head face. Given a good budget i would always buy a NEW block casting. Fit all new core plugs to block and head if using old castings!

JUN (Cosworth) pistons, or Tomei if they do them now.

Steel rods from Arrow in the UK

New stock head casting, mildly cleaned up if budget allows.

Cosworth rod and crank bearings. Stock and plus or minus 1 thou available.

New stock valves and new springs as recommended by cam maker.

HKS 270 'ish degree cams with recommended springs.

STEEL not Ti retainers, new stock collets.

New none stroker stock or checked to be perfect in terms of straigthness, size, ovality and finish used crank. Used cranks are risky, you don't know what revs or abuse they have seen, I would find an N/A engine that's been in front of an auto box and risk that if necessary. N/A and TT cranks are the same. BE SURE AND CERTAIN there's no oil seal groove worn on the crank's nose where the front seal rubs.

New stock oil pump.

New stock water pump.

New viscous coupling.

New stock rad with stock ducting from stock front bumper. Stock undertray left in place.

Use the stock fan shroud.

New SIDE mount intercooler.

New stock crank damper, not an aftermarket one.

Giken twin plate clutch and flywheel.

Stock intake and TB.

Bosch or Siemens injectors in aftermarket rail

Bosch FPR if (big if...) you need to raise fuel pressure from stock, if not use stock FPR.

Single Bosch 044 in tank pump unless data logs show fuel pressure issues.

GT35 genuine Garrett turbo with Ni Resist or cast stainless (Tial) turbine housing.

Genuine Tial wastegate unless budget exists for something better (and a LOT dearer). Lots of fake Garrett turbos and Tial gates around, buy from Garrett agent in the UK.

Exhaust manifold. Hmm, tricky. I don't trust tubular manifolds unless they are Inconel and everything is supported off cranes with rod ens to take all weight off the manifold. I would compromise flow with a cast iron manifold. One US company is listing cast stainless turbo manifolds in 2JZ N/A head bolt pattern, if they did them in TT pattern I would say try one of those. Arnout in Holland is talking of resurrecting his cast single turbo manifold, but may be some time, or even not happen.

ECU. Flavour on here is Syvecs. Very capable. Will you want to fiddle with the software yourself? If so i find it a nightmare. AFAIK their is no proper data logging software package with a proper GUI for it. If you want it fitting, mapped and left alone it's probably fine. Others are AEM (old school, not very good), or a plug and play (save for mapping and swapping three wires for MAP sensor for J-Spec cars) Motec M*00 series ecu from John Reed racing in the USA.

BIG engine oil cooler on thermostatically controlled take off plate under an oil filter with anti drain back valve in it, about 34 rows on -12 hoses. Oil cooler mounted with hoese coming out the top.

Delete the stock oil to water heat exchanger.

Stock coil packs.

Stock head gasket or Cometic.

thanks for that Chris.

Most of the above is already done. But you have answered the missing bits for me.

thanks again.