Actual Single Cost Discussion

Following on from a wee debate myself and Jamesy were having, I thought I would start a seperate thread to stop crashing in on another members.

I've copied over your list bud, I hope you don't mind. Obviously it won't be complete as I dare say you have changed a lot of bits and bobs during the transition but here is what I have catagorised it to.

Did the top part of that list add up to over 10k for you? Was everything brand new? Where did you buy?

Obviously I am really interested in this as I am currently collecting everything I need to convert to single turbo. I got a really good deal on a lot of the stuff from JP, and know that they are all top quality parts. This means that I can cross off almost all of the top list (Minus turbo, ECU and custom fitting parts) and I have barely cleared 2k so far.

* Billet 6765H DBB Turbo with .81ar

* Modified OBX 321 stainless steel manifold

* HKS 50mm wastegate with screamer pipe

* 4" Full-Race Pro Sport downpipe

* 4" Full-Race Pro Sport mid pipe

* 4" HKS Ti catback exhaust

* 4" Inlet pipe and K&N air filter

* SARD 800cc drop in injectors

* SRD Stage 2 Race Cams

* Brian Crower uprated springs and retainers

* F-Con V Pro Gold ECU

* Bosch 044 fuel pump

* Fuel Pulsation removal kit

* FPR, gauge and rail adaptor

I Already have, or Equivilant:

* 4" SRD Front Mount Intercooler with custom piping

* AEM AFR gauge and wideband sensor

Not Required, Optional or nothing to do with single:

* Custom SRD Heat Shield

* HKS cam pulleys

* GReddy Plenum, throttle cable and TPS adaptor

* Q45 Throttle body

* GReddy timing belt

* AEM trans temp gauge

* Blitz oil cooler and relocation kit

* 2 x SRD Gearbox coolers

* Gearbox cooler gauge

* Uprated Boostlogic autobox (built by Michel Lane)

* 3800 Hi Stall torque converter

* Line lock kit

* BC Racing fully adjustable coilovers

* LSD

* UK Spec brakes front and rear with 3G drilled and vented discs and CW fast road pads

* Resprayed UK Calipers in silver with black decals

* CW braided brake hoses front and rear

* Alloy Overflow Tank

* GReddy Timing Belt

* New Water Pump

* New valve stem seals

* TRD Thermostat

* SRD Polished Greddy Manifold, Q45 Throttle Body, Water Neck & Cam Covers

Thing is Scott, you have 2nd hand parts (new or used im not sure) but if you bide your time in the parts for sale section you could easily complete a top quality single build for less than 10k. If you pop in some cheeky offers you could do it quite a lot less than 10k in fact!

Thing is Scott, you have 2nd hand parts (new or used im not sure) but if you bide your time in the parts for sale section you could easily complete a top quality single build for less than 10k. If you pop in some cheeky offers you could do it quite a lot less than 10k in fact!

I was aiming for around 10k right from the beginning though. Even when aiming for brand new parts I was still within the budget. I was going to be just over 8k in parts for all the stuff I wanted (including mapping but not fitting). Going over 2k on labour and extra bits and bobs would be fine, 10k was just my reference for going that way.

The parts are used but they are JP used.... hard and fast lol... should have loooooads of life left in them.

I think the trouble is that a lot of people factor in all the trimmings that comes with going single. Ie brakes, wheels, tyres, bling, nice additions etc etc.

What I have on my car at the moment should be enough to keep me going for now. Down the road I would go for sticky tyres for the summer etc but they are not necessary for a "good" single build.

I was aiming for around 10k right from the beginning though. Even when aiming for brand new parts I was still within the budget. I was going to be just over 8k in parts for all the stuff I wanted (including mapping but not fitting). Going over 2k on labour and extra bits and bobs would be fine, 10k was just my reference for going that way.

So you were at 10k as is oft quoted, but 2nd hand parts reduced it. Guess it depends on if you have time and patience or want it done tomorrow.

The parts are used but they are JP used.... hard and fast lol... should have loooooads of life left in them.

Unless its a diff

Na course dont mind mate

Off the top of my head the top part of that list came in at just over £7,500

As mentioned in the other thread they are the very basic elements of the build. Plus the ecu was actually a Syvecs off Ryan at £2,000

The bits you dont see are summarised below and add up to LOADS!!

Alloy Header tank

Timing Belt

Idler Wheel

FPD Removal line

Battery Relocation Wiring

Gearbox Coolers

Exhaust Wrap

Trans Temp Gauge

Turbo Heat Shields

Welding and Fabrication

Millers 300+ Brake Fluid

Millers 75w90NT Diff Oil

Water Pump

Coolant

Millers 10w60 3litres

PE Oil Filter

Toyota Gearbox Oil 5L

Washer Bottle

Shims for cams

Intercooler Pipe Work

1m Fuel hose 10mm

Spark Plugs

2x 4” V Bands

1x 3” V Band

4” Intake pipe and hose

Intercooler Hose clips

Oil Feed

Oil Return

Oil Cooler bits

T4 Gasket

Manifold Nuts

-6 Weld in fitting

Exhaust Manifold Gaskets

Water Lines

Intake gasket

Surge Gasket

FMS

Cam Seals

Cam Cover Gaskets

Cam Cover washers

18mm Breather Filter

IACV Flange

16mm 90deg hose

FPR fittings and line

Boostlogic TC & FW bolts

Silicone Lower Rad Hose

SRD Billet Water Kneck

Polishing

Not to mention the labour and mapping costs

So you were at 10k as is oft quoted, but 2nd hand parts reduced it. Guess it depends on if you have time and patience or want it done tomorrow.

 

Well yes and no. I have actually got far better parts than what I was looking to buy. I have got what would probably be considered the best for this sort of level of performance whereas before I was pricing for "will do". On the prices that JP probably paid and the price that I paid I reckon there will be at least a 50% reduction, of course I am just guessing here. Where JP possibly paid around the 4k mark, I was looking to spend around the 3k mark. Taking that into account I think I have easily saved £1k. Add into that the fact that the kit goes together perfectly with the exact turbo that I am planning to buy and it is a win win scenario. Less hassle and time on fitting.

I was always aiming to do the turbo side of the engine myself. Removing the TT system, tidying it up and fitting the turbo etc is a relatively straight forward job... just pesky and time consuming. I am hoping to save myself a fair bit of money there just doing that alone. From there it will be a slow and off boost drive down to Lee to check over what I have done and do work his magic on the rest of the install along with my engine bay. Now I haven't factored in the niceties that Lee puts into his installs as that is not part of my "single install" budget, that is part of the "what I want" budget which IMO has to be seen seperately.

 

Unless its a diff

Lol, yeah. His "used" diffs tend to be worth more in scrap value

Now I haven't factored in the niceties that Lee puts into his installs as that is not part of my "single install" budget, that is part of the "what I want" budget which IMO has to be seen seperately.

I think that is the key factor here.

Na course dont mind mate

 

Off the top of my head the top part of that list came in at just over £7,500

 

As mentioned in the other thread they are the very basic elements of the build. Plus the ecu was actually a Syvecs off Ryan at £2,000

 

The bits you dont see are summarised below and add up to LOADS!!

 

Alloy Header tank

Timing Belt

Idler Wheel

FPD Removal line

Battery Relocation Wiring

Gearbox Coolers

Exhaust Wrap

Trans Temp Gauge

Turbo Heat Shields

Welding and Fabrication

Millers 300+ Brake Fluid

Millers 75w90NT Diff Oil

Water Pump

Coolant

Millers 10w60 3litres

PE Oil Filter

Toyota Gearbox Oil 5L

Washer Bottle

Shims for cams

Intercooler Pipe Work

1m Fuel hose 10mm

Bracket + mount for exhaust

Spark Plugs

2x 4” V Bands

1x 3” V Band

4” Intake pipe and hose

Intercooler Hose clips

Oil Feed

Oil Return

Oil Cooler bits

T4 Gasket

Manifold Nuts

-6 Weld in fitting

Exhaust Manifold Gaskets

Water Lines

Intake gasket

Surge Gasket

FMS

Cam Seals

Cam Cover Gaskets

Cam Cover washers

18mm Breather Filter

IACV Flange

16mm 90deg hose

FPR fittings and line

Boostlogic TC & FW bolts

Silicone Lower Rad Hose

SRD Billet Water Kneck

Polishing

 

Not to mention the labour and mapping costs

See this is where my opinion vareys. You are picking out a lot of things that are optional and that are general engine maintenence. They aren't things that you need to do for going single, they are just things that you chose to do. My single budget is based on required parts to go single.

The following, I think, is what is required. The fact that you had a built auto box adds a LOT to the cost.

FPD Removal line

Exhaust Wrap

Turbo Heat Shields

Welding and Fabrication

Shims for cams

Intercooler Pipe Work

1m Fuel hose 10mm

Bracket + mount for exhaust

Spark Plugs

2x 4” V Bands

1x 3” V Band

4” Intake pipe and hose

Intercooler Hose clips

Oil Feed

Oil Return

T4 Gasket

Manifold Nuts

-6 Weld in fitting

Exhaust Manifold Gaskets

Water Lines

Intake gasket

Surge Gasket

16mm 90deg hose

FPR fittings and line

Boostlogic TC & FW bolts

Labour

I think that is the key factor here.

Definitely. I just don't like seeing comments that a "Decent" single build can't be done without spending a lot more than 10k. It can, if you factor in the bells and whistles then it probably can't but a tidy engine bay, wheels, tyres, brakes and polished bling don't factor into what I consider a decent build. Of course they are things that we all want (well other than the bling for me) but we can't all have it all.

Na course dont mind mate

 

Off the top of my head the top part of that list came in at just over £7,500

 

As mentioned in the other thread they are the very basic elements of the build. Plus the ecu was actually a Syvecs off Ryan at £2,000

 

The bits you dont see are summarised below and add up to LOADS!!

 

Alloy Header tank

Timing Belt

Idler Wheel

FPD Removal line

Battery Relocation Wiring

Gearbox Coolers

Exhaust Wrap

Trans Temp Gauge

Turbo Heat Shields

Welding and Fabrication

Millers 300+ Brake Fluid

Millers 75w90NT Diff Oil

Water Pump

Coolant

Millers 10w60 3litres

PE Oil Filter

Toyota Gearbox Oil 5L

Washer Bottle

Shims for cams

Intercooler Pipe Work

1m Fuel hose 10mm

Bracket + mount for exhaust

Spark Plugs

2x 4” V Bands

1x 3” V Band

4” Intake pipe and hose

Intercooler Hose clips

Oil Feed

Oil Return

Oil Cooler bits

T4 Gasket

Manifold Nuts

-6 Weld in fitting

Exhaust Manifold Gaskets

Water Lines

Intake gasket

Surge Gasket

FMS

Cam Seals

Cam Cover Gaskets

Cam Cover washers

18mm Breather Filter

IACV Flange

16mm 90deg hose

FPR fittings and line

Boostlogic TC & FW bolts

Silicone Lower Rad Hose

SRD Billet Water Kneck

Polishing

 

Not to mention the labour and mapping costs

THIS post is the exact thing I've been wanting to see! All the little underlying bits (not necessary, but probably handy to change to) that contribute to the build without being the big, shiny named bits!

Thanks Jamesy

I think it's worth noting that building a single install and building one that will work reliably for many thousands of miles over several years are two very different things.

If you want a bling bay then its handy to do a lot of it while its in pieces. saves money in the long term to change things whilst its all stripped down. In retrospect thats where i went wrong. Instead of building the single i was trying to pretty things up far too much. This place doesnt help when all the bays are full of chrome and carbon and painted engines fresh from rebuild and mine wasnt!

I think it's worth noting that building a single install and building one that will work reliably for many thousands of miles over several years are two very different things.

Totally agree. You can't have a monetary value on this though.

If you want a bling bay then its handy to do a lot of it while its in pieces. saves money in the long term to change things whilst its all stripped down. In retrospect thats where i went wrong. Instead of building the single i was trying to pretty things up far too much. This place doesnt help when all the bays are full of chrome and carbon and painted engines fresh from rebuild and mine wasnt!

This is one of the areas where I will really save. Firstly I don't like chrome etc (and I detest carbon other than for practical reasons, the look is terrible for me) so I wanted to steer clear of it. I do like polished metal but the finish is too hard to keep, especially in an engine bay, and I am far too lazy to look after something like that. This is the main reason I went for the "stealth" look. My engine bay is very easy to look after, little clean every now and again has it looking very presentable. Best of all it's that little bit different.

(the actual best of all is that it's cheap )

If you want a bling bay then its handy to do a lot of it while its in pieces. saves money in the long term to change things whilst its all stripped down. In retrospect thats where i went wrong. Instead of building the single i was trying to pretty things up far too much. This place doesnt help when all the bays are full of chrome and carbon and painted engines fresh from rebuild and mine wasnt!

Very true mate - thats why i decided to change the valve stem seals, water pump, cams, shims etc etc while the engine was apart rather than having hours of extra labour costs later when doing them individually....

Very true mate - thats why i decided to change the valve stem seals, water pump, cams, shims etc etc while the engine was apart rather than having hours of extra labour costs later when doing them individually....

Seeeeeee

Now how much have you spent going single

See this is where my opinion vareys. You are picking out a lot of things that are optional and that are general engine maintenence. They aren't things that you need to do for going single, they are just things that you chose to do. My single budget is based on required parts to go single.

 

Not really too much on that long list that i wouldnt recommend for reliability and best practise, and to get a nice finish. As i say its the little fiddly things that bring the cost right up.

of course u can whack a single conversion for a lot less, and even more so if you're hands on ....

As Gaz mentioned there are 2 seperate worlds of doing it

Alloy Header tank

Idler Wheel

Battery Relocation Wiring

Water Pump

Coolant

Washer Bottle

Manifold Nuts

Intake gasket

Surge Gasket

FMS

Cam Seals

Cam Cover Gaskets

Cam Cover washers

18mm Breather Filter

IACV Flange

Silicone Lower Rad Hose

SRD Billet Water Kneck

Polishing

All of these things are not 'essential' to the build, but rather may as well be done while its out. Arguably the water pump gaskets and seals will help it to be a reliable single.

Not really too much on that long list that i wouldnt recommend for reliability and best practise, and to get a nice finish. As i say its the little fiddly things that bring the cost right up.

 

of course u can whack a single conversion for a lot less, and even more so if you're hands on .... but as Gaz mentioned there are 2 seperate worlds of doing it

This is my point though mate, you can't throw money at reliability. It just isn't possible to do. Your engine is either in fine fettle or in need of maintenence. If it is in need of maintenence then you will need to see to that before lumbering on a big turbo and cranking up the boost. In fairness I think that most of the engines would need a little freshen up in some areas.

As an example I have the following listed to be done to my car:

Valve Stem Seals

Cam Seals

Rear Main Seal

Those are things I am doing to the car to try and help with the reliability aspect of going single. They are not part of my £10k budget, they are things that I have wanted to do for a while that I am as well getting done at the same time as going single.

Nice to see you along my train of thought Rob

Exactly. And internal seals and gaskets are more maintenance whether it was single or stock TT. They get brittle and fail, its just how it is.

As a little side note when my FMS failed I decided to get the water pump and oil pump done just to make sure they were sorted should I decide to go single. I can't very well say that they were part of my single budget as I wasn't going single at that particular time, I just wanted to make sure my engine was to spec. I could easily have just stuck with the same oil pump and water pump but it would be a little silly of me given that a worn oil pump can lead to FMS failure.

The cost to replace the FMS was a LOT less than the amount of money I paid to have those repairs and that preventitive maintenence done.

This is around the cost of these parts for for my built engine £6500

SRD stage 3 cams

Titan cam gears

Unorthodox pulley set

Ferrea valve train kit

Bronze guides

Shimless buckets

BC Pro rods

Mahle Pistons

Acl race bearings

Billet main caps

Arp main studs

Arp head studs

Billet tensioner bracket

New crank pulley

New water pump

New oil pump

New engine gasket set

Gate racing cam belt

Gates racing fan belt

Super spark coilpacks

i think i will end up paying around 12/15k when its finshed its mad but worth it

This is around the cost of these parts for for my built engine £6500

SRD stage 3 cams

Titan cam gears

Unorthodox pulley set

Ferrea valve train kit

Bronze guides

Shimless buckets

BC Pro rods

Mahle Pistons

Acl race bearings

Billet main caps

Arp main studs

Arp head studs

Billet tensioner bracket

New crank pulley

New water pump

New oil pump

New engine gasket set

Gate racing cam belt

Gates racing fan belt

Super spark coilpacks

 

i think i will end up paying around 12/15k when its finshed its mad but worth it

That is an engine refresh and a single build in one though. As an example, say your car had all the engine work done 6 months ago.... would you do it all again because you were "going single"? IMO anyone would be silly to do what isn't required.

On the other side of the coin you would also be silly not to change a 15 year old oil pump with xxxxxx miles on it, same with the water pump etc, but that isn't the cost of going single. That's the "while I'm here" and the "I better do that just in case" list.

Totally agree. You can't have a monetary value on this though.

You can and probably will after the event

There is more to building a single car than just bolting on a kit, fuel system and ecu, what on earth is the point of 5-600hp if the car won't stop or go round corners any quicker than a BPU car, its a bit like bikes and im sure JP will back me up here the way to make a bike quicker especially round a track is to improve the braking and handling. Yes it is poss to do the conversion for under 10K but only if you use secondhand parts and have a perfect engine, the americans prob find it very strange that we run on stock props, I believe most of em change to 1 piece as they go single, yes the stock rail can handle bigger injectors but I would not run one, do you need a stronger T belt, maybe not but it would be nice, billet tensioner some say yes you do, bigger rad maybe if you are going to use the performance, oil coolers..... if you do track days yes. Biggest saving will be doing the labour yourself, which is fine till something goes wrong like cars we have had with fuel systems plumbed in wrong etc etc.