HKS filters and turbo damage

A friend of mine has damaged turbos on his Skyline. He had HKS green mushroom filters on for 8000 miles (previous owner). They got swapped out for Apexi ones due to the notoriety of these filters being rubbish but it looks like it was too late. The compressor blades are eroded and dinged at the edges and one turbo whines at half a bar of boost. It's also got enough bearing play to touch the turbo housing wall.

 

Number one, this isn't the first Skyline to have it's turbo's murdered by these air filters (Chris Wilson had one I recall). I don't know if there is a problem with the HKS ones on a Supra, draw your own conclusions. I have

 

Number two, if particulates make it through the turbo and the intercooler, what subsequent damage could be caused? Taking into account the particles of metal off the turbo vanes as well. Could valve seats be damaged/eroded? Bore wall scoring? Impeller vanes damaged? If there is damage to these areas, how much damage would necessitate a full engine rebuild?

 

He's getting the engine endoscoped next week, input would be appreciated.

 

-Ian

what environments has he been driving in, was it particularly dusty? I remember a review of the air filters on some 4x4 in the US and the filtration was seriously bad, but then the guy did work in a quarry and so it was a little dusty.

 

JB

He's been driving in Norfolk. We don't have different air pressures, never mind environments.

 

-Ian

#1 what are you doing with a friend with a skyline!!

 

#2 I remember a review where the HKS filters came out bottom for filtration. May be on MKIV.com

Originally posted by Terry S

#1 what are you doing with a friend with a skyline!!

 

#2 I remember a review where the HKS filters came out bottom for filtration. May be on MKIV.com

 

Steady Tiger!

here's the filter report, hope it helps:

Going to order the Apexi unit next month for my car.

 

http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/index.html

He chopped in a Porsche for the Skyline so he can't be all bad

 

Yeah, the famous MkIV.com test. You can't argue with empirical evidence like at least two skylines with eroded turbos caused by nonexistant particulate filtration though. You can't argue with a sentence like that either, the words are too long

 

-Ian

Originally posted by SupraStar 3000

http://www.david.c.c.btinternet.co.uk/Resources/suprastar.jpeg

You aren't seriously going to put that pic in all your posts are you?

Originally posted by Jake

You aren't seriously going to put that pic in all your posts are you?

 

LOL, that's what I was thinking.

 

Ben..

hehe I was going to comment on this, since the topic of images in sigs was brought up in the 'traders sigs' thread ;-)

 

didn't fancy the confrontation though :-)

Originally posted by carl0s

hehe I was going to comment on this, since the topic of images in sigs was brought up in the 'traders sigs' thread ;-)

 

didn't fancy the confrontation though :-)

 

I think you'll find that it isn't actually in his sig, it is added to the bottom of all of his posts, not the sig.

 

Ben..

oh well in that case it's fine

 

 

 

 

 

.....NOT

ok,

ok,

ok.....point taken

 

 

won't do it again

 

didn't mean to upset anyone. Just alittle free advertising.

SORRY

nice site though SupraStar. Has made me re-think the need for 18" wheels - your car looks good on those 17" Kosei's. Any idea what suspension or springs it's running?

Originally posted by SupraStar 3000

ok,

ok,

ok.....point taken

 

 

won't do it again

 

didn't mean to upset anyone. Just alittle free advertising.

SORRY

 

Don't take it personally like, we sort of don't do it, cos if 1 does it, then everyone wants to have one, and then the pages take as long as Supraforums to load, and it just becomes a pain - especially if you are on dial up.

 

Ben..

n/p

 

Don't want to hijack Ian's original thread but thanks carl0s,

The Car has the original suspension from import (whatever that is)

 

Back on track, my mate is sweating over the potential damage caused so can anyone shed a light on this? I see CW's endoscope thread has pointed out that eating the compressor wheel is bad for the engine but it's not that bad, just dings and particles...

 

-Ian

wow we need another tech moderator:baa:

 

Big C what did HKS say about it. I am still smarting 3 years on from the attitude displayed over my shagged cam gear.

On the subject of foam filters. We run them on mx bikes that are subjected to large amounts of dust and get no engine damage BUT we add oil to them after cleaning in petrol. Does anyone on here use motorcyle air filter oil on their filters to improve filtration?

Darren, that is the same theory as K&N, you re-oil periodically

Originally posted by Terry S

Darren, that is the same theory as K&N, you re-oil periodically

 

Good cos I regularly wash my HKS in petrol then fairy liquid and once dry oil it up. It certainly seems to catch/filter all the dust then IMHO.

Originally posted by Darren

On the subject of foam filters. We run them on mx bikes that are subjected to large amounts of dust and get no engine damage BUT we add oil to them after cleaning in petrol. Does anyone on here use motorcyle air filter oil on their filters to improve filtration?

 

That is true, but there are differences:

 

1: The foam is much finer than the HKS stuff.

 

2: It has a much shorter service life.

 

3: Oiling the filters on a car is supposed to cause trouble over time with the oil buildup blocking the sensors etc, not a problem on a bike.

 

Add the fact that the whole engine is rebuilt so often, it is not a very applicable idea. Though as you have found, it is better than nothing.

Originally posted by Syed Shah

3: Oiling the filters on a car is supposed to cause trouble over time with the oil buildup blocking the sensors etc, not a problem on a bike.

 

A car intake system will normally have an amount of oil in it anyway because of the closed breather system (unless you've fitted a bling bling catch tank). The only sensor that might be upstream of the WOT breather connecton is the MAF meter, and us J-speccers don't have one of those. Can't comment on UK cars or Skylines though.

 

As for engine damage, if its breathed in a chunk of metal then its got to be an inspect and replace as necessary job. They aint designed to take solids I suppose the metal might be laying in the intake somewhere but there's no way of being sure.

 

Probably worth taking the intake system off and checking that too.

My old Skyline came with HKS filters, and despite a warning from an Ozzie pal that used to race the things to get the stock airbox and filter i was lazy and ran it for 3000 or so miles, 95% being on track, as I only used it to go to and from track days. I did regular leakdown tests, but the wear became very apparent as it started using a LOT of oil. A proper inspection of the turbo compressor blades showed they had gone from visually as new to knackered in that mileage. A strip down showed it needed a rebore, new pistons and rings, 2 good turbos, new guides, some new valves and of course, having gone that far, set of bearings and an oil pump. A DEAR do.... I am convinced it was due to bad air filtration, I have run F3 engines for years, and they run sans any sort of air filter, and, turbo apart, show the same wear due to abrasives in the air supply.

 

I have a Skyline GTR here now, that ate it's rear turbo exhaust turbine wheel (ceramic). The ceramic "dust" has badly scored the back three bores, making the engine burn a huge amount of oil. It's a full rebuild and 2 turbos, or a used engine to fix it. This was NOT a filter problem though, more likely to be running 1.2 bar for some time on the advice of well known so called experts. Real Skyline experts would know the stock turbos become very unreliable over 1 bar. Another dear do, but not for me this time

 

My take on filters is well documented, I can't see any reason not to use the stock, excellent set up unless running an engine demanding a massive amount more air flow. Mark Browns big power car has a neat set up on it, with an aftermarket filter pulling air from where the stock IC was, he now runs a big FMIC. He routed the pipework to the filter through the "floor" or the RH inner wing, so the filter gets cold air.

Cheers Chris - yours was "the other" Skyline I remembered. Shame about all the engine damage, fingers crossed for my friend as he's only been doing normal driving, not track stuff. He's getting a scope check done on the cylinders but oil usage hasn't noticeably changed so far...

 

That filter-in-the-SMIC thing is a good idea but how much does it increase your chances of hydraulic lock when driving in traffic in heavy rain?

 

-Ian