going mild single on VVTI - need advice

I am planning my single build- am slowly aquiring the parts required and am looking at the Precision Billet 6265 Ball Bearing Turbo in "S" spec. with the - 4.0"/2.5" in/out housing..

I am only chasing 500-550 bhp @ the wheels at most- is this turbo overkill? I figure it will give me some room to move if I want to increase power at a later date (I was also looking at a TO4Z)..

Because I will have to aquire the parts over time I am trying to figure out what is the best option in regards to ecu, manifold injectors etc so I can purchase these things over the coming months and really need some advice-

So my questions are-

Because I am VVTI with DBW I am thinking I will go with a piggyback solution- mainly because getting a tuner around these parts is goig to be hard enough let alone finding one who can tune with the vvti and dbw- so which is best- from reading on here I think either emanage ultimate or the map ecu- or is there another one I dont know about?

And on that not will these 'piggyback' systems be able to cope with this turbo?

Which manifold is my best (and cheapest) option?- I have seen some nice cast mnifolds that supposedly support this kind of power- are these any good? I dont think I need a special VVTI manifold do I?

Injectors- I dont really understand this bit- I figure I will need 750cc -to- 800cc injectors (to allow room to move in future) but I think these need to be high impedence and what type - side feed or top feed? I also need advice here...

On another note will a standard bottom end handle this sort of power- from what I am reading this is towards the upper limit of the stock bottom end as 550 rwhp is 650+ at the flywheel- is this correct?

Fuel pump- will the walbro 255 drop in pump handle this?

and finally would the better option be just to ditch the VVTI and DBW (like some knowledgable people have suggested on here..) and go AEM- or is this totally possible with a piggyback if done right??

I know there is a lot of other stuff I need ( I have some of it already- FMIC and oil cooler etc) with other stuff already fitted (twin plate clutch, big brake kit etc) and sorry for the long winded post but I just need someone to explain these bits in detail and let me know if I am on the right track here...

BTW I have searched and read a lot on this before I posted...Thanks and cheers,

and finally would the better option be just to ditch the VVTI and DBW (like some knowledgable people have suggested on here..) and go AEM- or is this totally possible with a piggyback if done right??

That's what I ended up doing mate. If you search for posts by MarkR he looked at keeping the VVTi and I think he kept the FBW.

When i went single originally, I had a larger manifold and ditched the FBW. The power seemed to be limited by the head flow (stock VVTi head). I'd previously heard that the maximum power the stock head would flow was 580FWHP. The most i saw was 460RWHP @1.3bar although I had a small exhaust housing.

In the end i ditched the VVTi and went back to a stock manifold without FBW - car feels better if anything. I'd swap the heads and go AEM / Solaris

T04Z is indeed overkill for that power level.

If I was after 550bhp, then i'd be looking at the HKS hybrids, rare thing that they are.

My car pushes 560+ bhp, feel free to have a look at my setup (follow the link in my signature)

PHR Street kit is right in that power bracket and for piggy back it might be worth looking at the newer AEM piggyback unit. I would go with PE drop in injectors, depending on which piggyback unit 650cc or 800cc, I run 650cc but they are on the limit at 592bhp.

A single intank Bosch 044 pump should be all you need to finish the fueling off at that level.

A VVTI when setup properly with the DBW on a replacement ECU like the Solaris works really well, as you mentioned though, mapping one where you are might be tricky. As always, speak to your mapper and see what unit they recommend

Few of you have missed he is talking RWHP.

The billet 6265 you mention will just about do 550rwhp i think but i would go a little larger to give you a bit of future headroom.

Cast manifold will do the job but id go with tubular, Paul wiffin makes some very nice manifolds that wont break the bank.

800cc high imp drop in injectors will do the job, try jens at the fuel injector clinic.

http://www.fuelinjectorclinic.com/toyota/

Im on stock bottom end at 622RWHP (730fly) and all seems good.

Im not sure a single walbro will do 550rwhp, better to go bosche 044 or twin walbro.

Hey guys thanks for the responses...

Jamie you are a gentleman and a schollar (and a madman behind the wheel- I've seen the youtube vids...)

And yeah i am chasing 550 RWHP (at most though- I would 'settle' for 500+)

I'm thinking this may be a bit much for a piggyback system? Really wanted to keep my vvti and DBW if I can - means I dont have to buy a new head and manifold...

Cheers !

I personally wouldnt run a piggyback on a setup with that much potential but you are restricted by what your mapper is happy to use.

Have you chosen a mapper and discussed your options with him?

I have found an ecu - the Vipec plug and play for the vvti supra- and it can control the vvti and DBW systems perfectly, even comes with a base map- V88 here

so I dont need to use a piggyback now I can get a full plug and play solution..

I have found an ecu - the Vipec plug and play for the vvti supra- and it can control the vvti and DBW systems perfectly, even comes with a base map- V88 here

 

so I dont need to use a piggyback now I can get a full plug and play solution..

Very interesting, just going through the doc now

Nice quick tune feature being shown here

jel2P1slIag

It looks like this is an excellent solution to the vvti dbw problem to me, and the man behind it, Ray Hall, has been around long before I was born..

his site

this is interesting

He was the main man in Australia for Autronic as I understand it for a fairly lengthy time and he definately knows his stuff..

Will be interesting to see how this pans out..

JamieP if you happen past this thread again what turbo would you recommend?

Maybe the Precision Billet 6765 Ball Bearing Turbo - I think this is what you run isn't it?

What size injectors would I need with this- 800cc?

Nice quick tune feature being shown here

 

jel2P1slIag

With the computer doing all the load cell mapping you would think they would notice the water temps going over 110c

It even changes colour labelled ECT!

Vipec is a Linkecu. They are in bed together

Good units and i map alot on MR2's but the PID control on the them is shocking! Well was last time i looked.

The PID control is used for closed loop vvti and closed loop Boost control. WIth the VVTI on a supra you have to use Closed loop control. Im not sure i would trust the vipec/link.

Ryan

Mr G I hope your still around and can possibly answer my questions here-

I am basically limited to three options-

option 1 - ditch the dbw and vvti and go with something like AEM or similiar- (costs of manifold and head changes etc)

option 2- pay way more than I want for a hks fcon pro and get the only shop in my state to map it who I wouldnt trust as far as I could throw and want mega $$$- (and no they wont tune it if they didnt sell it to me ...)

option 3- go with the vipec...

given these options is the vipec really that bad if mapped properly?

Unless of course you can supply me with a solaris that I can plug and play with base maps that I can get a tuner here in west oz to fine tune with vvti and DBW ?

Is this possible- I mean everyone says your the man....... :)

also what is this PID control you speak of (remember your dealing with a newb here- but I am learning fast- baptism by fire lol)?

Seriously tho I need a plug and play option with a base map that a tuner here can tune without too much trouble...

Or are you possibly doing email tuning these days like MVP offers with the AEM- cmon there has to be a first time eh?

I am planning my single build- am slowly aquiring the parts required and am looking at the Precision Billet 6265 Ball Bearing Turbo in "S" spec. with the - 4.0"/2.5" in/out housing..

I am only chasing 500-550 bhp @ the wheels at most- is this turbo overkill? I figure it will give me some room to move if I want to increase power at a later date (I was also looking at a TO4Z)..

 

Because I will have to aquire the parts over time I am trying to figure out what is the best option in regards to ecu, manifold injectors etc so I can purchase these things over the coming months and really need some advice-

 

So my questions are-

Because I am VVTI with DBW I am thinking I will go with a piggyback solution- mainly because getting a tuner around these parts is goig to be hard enough let alone finding one who can tune with the vvti and dbw- so which is best- from reading on here I think either emanage ultimate or the map ecu- or is there another one I dont know about?

And on that not will these 'piggyback' systems be able to cope with this turbo?

 

Which manifold is my best (and cheapest) option?- I have seen some nice cast mnifolds that supposedly support this kind of power- are these any good? I dont think I need a special VVTI manifold do I?

 

Injectors- I dont really understand this bit- I figure I will need 750cc -to- 800cc injectors (to allow room to move in future) but I think these need to be high impedence and what type - side feed or top feed? I also need advice here...

 

On another note will a standard bottom end handle this sort of power- from what I am reading this is towards the upper limit of the stock bottom end as 550 rwhp is 650+ at the flywheel- is this correct?

 

Fuel pump- will the walbro 255 drop in pump handle this?

 

and finally would the better option be just to ditch the VVTI and DBW (like some knowledgable people have suggested on here..) and go AEM- or is this totally possible with a piggyback if done right??

 

I know there is a lot of other stuff I need ( I have some of it already- FMIC and oil cooler etc) with other stuff already fitted (twin plate clutch, big brake kit etc) and sorry for the long winded post but I just need someone to explain these bits in detail and let me know if I am on the right track here...

BTW I have searched and read a lot on this before I posted...Thanks and cheers,

As many have already noted here, there is very little difference between VVTi and non-VVTi blocks and heads - so with judicious modification and tuning a 2J can make 500-550 rwhp on pump fuel without compromising driveability or longevity. Past this point, it seems you start to have to either invest a lot more to maintain longevity or accept the limited lifespan.

As to your questions, keep standard intake manifold, standard head (but up-spec the cams), but get bigger injectors and better ECU. For specific answers, talk to a reputable workshop and let them help you decide (or do a lot more searching, because there are plenty of setups on here, SF.com.au, and SF.com that give you all the info you are asking about, bar the ECU questions).

The power seemed to be limited by the head flow (stock VVTi head). I'd previously heard that the maximum power the stock head would flow was 580FWHP. The most i saw was 460RWHP @1.3bar although I had a small exhaust housing.

In the end i ditched the VVTi and went back to a stock manifold without FBW - car feels better if anything. I'd swap the heads and go AEM / Solaris

Are you referring to stock head meaning stock cams /valves /unported? My car with stock VVTi head (bar 264 exhaust cam) made over 580 rear wheel kilowatts, let alone flywheel horsepower.

As many have already noted here, there is very little difference between VVTi and non-VVTi blocks and heads - so with judicious modification and tuning a 2J can make 500-550 rwhp on pump fuel without compromising driveability or longevity. Past this point, it seems you start to have to either invest a lot more to maintain longevity or accept the limited lifespan.

 

As to your questions, keep standard intake manifold, standard head (but up-spec the cams), but get bigger injectors and better ECU. For specific answers, talk to a reputable workshop and let them help you decide (or do a lot more searching, because there are plenty of setups on here, SF.com.au, and SF.com that give you all the info you are asking about, bar the ECU questions).

 

 

 

Are you referring to stock head meaning stock cams /valves /unported? My car with stock VVTi head (bar 264 exhaust cam) made over 580 rear wheel kilowatts, let alone flywheel horsepower.

Completely stock head mate. Do you have a dyno plot for yours, be interesting to see how the power comes in with the VVTi working 680@the wheels, what boost was that on when using SUL?

As many have already noted here, there is very little difference between VVTi and non-VVTi blocks and heads - so with judicious modification and tuning a 2J can make 500-550 rwhp on pump fuel without compromising driveability or longevity. Past this point, it seems you start to have to either invest a lot more to maintain longevity or accept the limited lifespan.

 

As to your questions, keep standard intake manifold, standard head (but up-spec the cams), but get bigger injectors and better ECU. For specific answers, talk to a reputable workshop and let them help you decide (or do a lot more searching, because there are plenty of setups on here, SF.com.au, and SF.com that give you all the info you are asking about, bar the ECU questions).

 

 

 

Hence me only chasing 500-550 to keep some sort of longevity.

Thanks for confirming this for me.

I wish it was as easy as picking a tuning workshop- unfortunately no one here knows what to put on a vvti. They can offer no advice and the best tuners ( only two I would trust) both simply tell me to find an ECU that works with DBW and VVTI and they will do their best to tune it (and I have faith they will do a good job)- hence me now looking at vipec or maybe solaris if I can get it with a plug and play harness and base map to work from.

I have done a hell of a lot of research and am merely asking for some advice now that I am confident enough to make some sort of selection.

As JamieP said I may want to look at a slightly larger turbo- although the one I am looking at will do the job I may want to upgrade later etc..

Its this kind of advice I am looking for. Hell Its a no brainer to go "this guy has XXX power so I will copy him"- unfortunately I am limited somewhat in ECU selection so I need some advice, and after reading hundreds of threads on this subject I still have questions..

John (Foodfreak) has a VVTI with Fcon V and ran a T61 and now a new billet single, he has had no problems at all, worth a PM

Completely stock head mate. Do you have a dyno plot for yours, be interesting to see how the power comes in with the VVTi working 680@the wheels, what boost was that on when using SUL?

VVTi not turned on (AFAIK). Race fuel, GT4294R. Oh, and this is wheel kilowatts, not flywheel - to avoid any confusion.

Hence me only chasing 500-550 to keep some sort of longevity.

Thanks for confirming this for me.

I wish it was as easy as picking a tuning workshop- unfortunately no one here knows what to put on a vvti. They can offer no advice and the best tuners ( only two I would trust) both simply tell me to find an ECU that works with DBW and VVTI and they will do their best to tune it (and I have faith they will do a good job)- hence me now looking at vipec or maybe solaris if I can get it with a plug and play harness and base map to work from.

 

I have done a hell of a lot of research and am merely asking for some advice now that I am confident enough to make some sort of selection.

As JamieP said I may want to look at a slightly larger turbo- although the one I am looking at will do the job I may want to upgrade later etc..

Its this kind of advice I am looking for. Hell Its a no brainer to go "this guy has XXX power so I will copy him"- unfortunately I am limited somewhat in ECU selection so I need some advice, and after reading hundreds of threads on this subject I still have questions..

I'm not just blindly saying "search" as if you're asking a often repeated question, just that if you have a *firm* idea of how you plan to use the car (roadrace, drag, street etc) then I know that looking at other setups using a similar turbo will answer a lot of questions regarding (type of more than brand of) clutch / injector / turbine housing / divided vs undivided manifold etc. Remember that there is always more than one way to skin a cat, so "better" often depends on the situation.

However, the ECU dilemma is a doozy. If you want an opinion from an Australian workshop that has installed a number of ViPeCs, including on a VVTi T04Z, then ring ESP in the A.C.T. and talk to Glen Kelly. The details are on the dyno plot above.

mmm... your car is sex on wheels....

and then there is that dyno graph..

Thanks for the compliment Although I think it's worth pointing out that (take another look at the dyno plot) with a "street" car on a single turbo, be that small or medium or large, will have most of the power available past *street legal* speeds. Not that I am preaching, because I'm more guilty than most, but certainly worth remembering if you have a tendency to succumb to the temptation of the right foot.

Although I think it's worth pointing out that (take another look at the dyno plot) with a "street" car on a single turbo, be that small or medium or large, will have most of the power available past *street legal* speeds.

The dyno run is done in one gear

I am sure you reach more than 3500rpm in all gears

The dyno run is done in one gear

 

I am sure you reach more than 3500rpm in all gears

Not sure what you're saying, Wez?? Are you saying that a dyno in 4th (or 3rd, I think it is, in the auto) of a vehicle that requires a road speed past 80 km/hr before a substantial rise in power delivery (and therefore a goodly way past 100 leptons once you let off the loud pedal) doesn't represent the potential to speed in other gears?

Or have I just missed the joke?