View Full Version : Which boost controller?
Hi everyone.........
Ok, basically, I am stuck between the Apex-i boost controller and the HKS EVC PRO. They seem to be the best on the market and I am having trouble choosing which one to go for?
Any major problems/differences with them?
All help greatly appeciated :)
Hi..
I would probably go for the Apexi out of the two given that there isn't much experiance with the EVC.
I have the Blitz DSBC and that seems to work fine well is easy too set up, any reason why this isn't on your shortlist?
I asked the very same question, off list several months back and it was suggested that the Blitz DSBC was for most of us, probably the best controller to go for.
I have so many old supra realted e-mails, I could not find the one concerned, I will try to find it because the originator outlined the pros and cons of each of the two you mentioned and the Blitz.
The DSBC is very effective but the SBC-ID is the best controller on the Market IMO.
The Apex'i can be a bit complicated and fiddly. The EVC is ok but certainly isn't as popular as the DSBC.
I believe that only the DSBC and SBC-iD feature dual solanoids making it a far more effective boost controller...this is also the one that Leon can set up to actually limit your boost a bit.
THe reason I havn't gone for the Blitz one is that everyone has one, and the Apexi and HKS units are much rarer.
Do they also feature dual solenoids?
Thanks
I can understand your resoning...I like to be different too ;)
The Apexi unit would in this case be my choice as it has a pretty display and would match the S-AFC I'm likely to have as well at some point.
Yep, thats what i've also been thinking, and of course how it will all look, and if everything will match.
Because all the bits have got to look right, and i'm already looking at the Apexi gauges, though the HKS ones have a larger selection.
Eric Kasir
23-02-02, 15:24
If its the Apexi AVC-R, I heard from a couple of people (inc. Chris Wilson when I was up there getting my decat pipes) that this unit is perhaps not best suited to the MKIV, can't remember the reasons, but I'm sure if he reads this, he might elaborate.
Personally I loved the DSBC for its simplicity, you didn't have to fiddle with 1000+1 variables to get the boost you wanted, if you do stuff up the settings on the AVC-R, I wouldn't like to recover them...
Also, if you don't like the black DSBC with green LCD, do what I did and get the chrome one with a blue backlit LCD - looks v.cool IMO. Quite neat as well because you can put it in the bottom half of the double din stereo unit (assuming you have a single din head unit), with the mounting plate it comes with, also you can chuck a couple of gauges in the same mounting plate. The AVC-R is difficult to locate in the Supe, I offered it up to quite a few places in the interior when I was down at TDI, and wasn't happy with any of them, looked very tacked on. Unless of course you do what Justin did and mount it in the roof.
HTH
Eric
I agree with Alex/Eric, I haven't yet got one but having done a bit of research think the Blitz SBC-ID is probably the best in terms of information & ease of set-up. I like the chrome/blue one too!
I'm all for individuality but not at the cost of forgoing the best for the job! Maybe the others are rare for a reason.. But then I expect those who run Apexi etc would disagree. :smile:
Oh well.......... now I am more confused than ever: The simplity of the blitz unit, the exclusivity of the Apexi unit...........
Guess its time for some more research to help me decide.
Quote: from Syed Shah on 2:17 pm on Feb. 23, 2002[br]THe reason I havn't gone for the Blitz one is that everyone has one,
Hmmm maybe you need to ask why that is ?
Yes but is the most common the best? Why is the Supra not the most common car? ;)
The other thing you might want too consider is reliability. I have been knocking around the Supra boards for about three years and I cannot recall failure of a Blitz but at least two Apexi units. HKS by virtue of their rarity ....who knows what they are like.
regards.....
That was something i was going to mention, but didn't have a lot of data for comparison.
I have heard of one DSBC solenoid failure and supposedly Blitz just swapped it straight out for the customer.
To me that's quite an impressive record on such a popular piece of kit.
Ok, thanks for the help everyone.
I *think* i am just going to take the plunge ;) and go for the HKS EVC PRO. But i'll confirm this nearer the time.
Quote: from Syed Shah on 4:28 pm on Feb. 24, 2002[br]Ok, thanks for the help everyone.
I *think* i am just going to take the plunge ;) and go for the HKS EVC PRO. But i'll confirm this nearer the time.
Good luck,lets hope the manual isn't in Japanese :biggrin:
Thanks, though i hope I wont need any ;)
If its in Japanese, then its Leons proble, as he'll be the one installing it :biggrin:
MONKEYmark
27-02-02, 15:19
hi intresting reading,i fancy the new blitz boostcontroller with the power meter id.they seem to have loads of features.
are they easy to fit or would you better getting someone like leon to fit.how much would it cost to get one fitted any ideas?
also do they have a boost gauge built in or do you need a boost guage,i was wanting an electronic boost gauge 60mm HKS
also an EGT gauge too.what other do you need oil temp?
i wanted the 3 pod pillar mount or passenger airbag mount,has anyone got any pics of installs to see how they look.
the new blitz does sound good,do you tap in the amount of boost you need.
any price on any of above parts
thanks in advance
Piece of p*ss to fit the SBC-id and Powermeter-id - if I can do it anyone can. :)
MONKEYmark
27-02-02, 19:03
hi alex when you say easy how many wires.
do you have to have a standalone boost gauge or do you use the meter
i thought you have to set them up on road to calibrate them.i would like one seems like quality bit of kit
Syed,
The HKS EVC Pro is an incredible unit (see http://www.hksusa.com/products/more.asp?id=673) but it uses fuzzy logic. This is fine for a single turbo or twin turbo's in parallel (TTC) but not recommended for sequential turbo's. For the latter the HKS EVC EZ is recommended, which also works well on single turbo's. The APEX'i unit is also not recommended for single turbo (i.e high boost) installations. Most US single turbo specialists use the HKS EVC EZ. It is very simple to use and controls boost well.
I have the Blitz SBC-iD with the Power Meter (I'm a gadget freak!) and it makes a nice combo. I have been told that it's also available in Japan with a green display which would match better with the other dashboard lights.
Final tip, make sure you don't use the power steering vacuum line for the boost controller display vacuum input, it will give strange results. It's better to T into the standard boost pressure sensor.
Flavio
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/pe4c6d9e15c47a0d76c021f997e0bda71/fe0355a1.jpg
(Edited by Flavio at 8:14 pm on Feb. 27, 2002)
Quote: from Flavio on 7:13 pm on Feb. 27, 2002[br]
Final tip, make sure you don't use the power steering vacuum line for the boost controller display vacuum input, it will give strange results. It's better to T into the standard boost pressure sensor.
Flavio
Ohh errr...which one's that then????!!!!!! I'm sure mine is acurate...never noticed another one I could plumb into.
The SBC-iD has one pack of wires which end at the actuator in a plug...at the other end all you need to do is splice the power in, and plug the other plugs into the control unit. attach the vacuum hose and you're off (having already fitted the actuator and hoses.
Very simplified version of events only difficulty is getting the wires and hose from the engine bay and into the cabin (coathanger for feeding required)
Have a look at a car with th DSBC if you havn't got a local SBC-iD the wiring is very similar and the actuator is the same, just the control units are different.
I'm in Norfolk which is a bit of a trek to just look at how the SBC and Powermeter are installed!!!!
Alex,
On the pic below you see a green sticker. Left of the green sticker you can just see the T I used for the vacuum line that goes to the boost controller display.
Flavio
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/pfdb8f37bc0a33619534b261d8cf85858/fdf26068.jpg
For a hi-res version of this pic go to http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/pfdb8f37bc0a33619534b261d8cf85858/fdf26068.jpg.orig.jpg
(Edited by Flavio at 12:26 am on Feb. 28, 2002)
(Edited by Flavio at 12:26 am on Feb. 28, 2002)
I think I'm ok!!! But your link didn't work....access denied sort of error.
Cheers
MONKEYmark
28-02-02, 01:57
Flavio
can you leave the standard boost gauge in and have say a 60mm HKS electronic boost gauge on a t splitter in the same pipe as the stock pipe
also love that spoiler is it a blitz spoiler and how much was it it looks loads bigger than stock spoiler
have fun
MONKEYmark
28-02-02, 02:07
these supra guys are helpfull
when i come to get one i will go for the new Blitz SBC-iD with the Power Meter id
just need to get a a good price on them both. is the built in boos gauge as acurate as a stand alone electronic boost gauge.i like external gauges in a 3 pod pillar mount.
flavio can you give us a run down of some of the features of both units and do you have to set them up, how do you set the boost levels and how do you know how much stock turbos can take.
justin said not to go above 1.1 bar and 1.3 with a front mount intercooler
thanks for any help
Quote: from MONKEYmark on 2:57 am on Feb. 28, 2002[br]Flavio
can you leave the standard boost gauge in and have say a 60mm HKS electronic boost gauge ^on a t splitter in the same pipe as the stock pipe
also love that spoiler ^is it a blitz spoiler and how much was it ^it looks loads bigger than stock spoiler
have fun
I have both the boost controller vacuum line as well as my electronic boost controller on the same vacuum line coming from the stock turbo pressure sensor.
The rear spoiler is from Whifbitz, a copy of the RMM rear spoiler. It's for sale if you're interested.
Flavio
Strangely although both use the same vacuum line my APEX'i electronic gauge reads higher peak levels than my SBC-iD. I haven't found an explanation for this yet.
Setting up the SBC-iD and Power Meter is easy, just follow the manuals. It's all menu driven so pretty easy, much easier than the DSBC. You just need to experiment with the gain and ratio settings on the boost controller. Higher gain means faster boost rise, higher ratio means higher boost level. The SBC-iD also has a mode where you just set the boost limit in bar, although I don't know if this works on sequential turbo's. I had problems with boost not being kept down at prolonged full throttle runs (with the SBC as well as my previous DSBC) but this could well have been because I used the power steering line for the vacuum. Also I suspected my stock wastegate was not a 100% anymore. With my SP57 any boost limit I set is really held so I know the Blitz works well in that respect.
If you have the Power Meter fitted next to the SBC-iD (so the infrared works) you can program them to vary maximum boost levels relative to the speed of the car, i.e lower boost levels at lower speeds to avoid wheel spins and higher boost at higher speeds.
One feature of the Power Meters that I also like is that you can calibrate the speed display (I used a handheld GPS) so you know exactly how fast you're going. My stock speedo is about 10% wrong.
The dash functions (0-100km/h, 0-200km/h, 0-300km/h, 0-200m, 0-400m, 0-1000m) are nice as well if you want to do an occasional drag run.
I agree with the 1.1 and 1.3 bar maximum boost levels for the stock turbo's. I know one guy in Poland ruined his engine by running 1.5 bar all the time, so be careful. An EGT gauge is a good thing to have.
Flavio
Quote: from Flavio on 7:22 am on Feb. 28, 2002[br]Strangely although both use the same vacuum line my APEX'i electronic gauge reads higher peak levels than my SBC-iD. I haven't found an explanation for this yet.
Flavio
Is this an Apexi boost gauge, reads say 1.45bar when you are boosting 1.2 in reality? If so, mine does the same - if you figure out a fix, let me know :)
-Ian
Quote: from Ian C on 1:39 pm on Feb. 28, 2002[br]Quote: from Flavio on 7:22 am on Feb. 28, 2002[br]Strangely although both use the same vacuum line my APEX'i electronic gauge reads higher peak levels than my SBC-iD. I haven't found an explanation for this yet.
Flavio
Is this an Apexi boost gauge, reads say 1.45bar when you are boosting 1.2 in reality? ^If so, mine does the same - if you figure out a fix, let me know :)
-Ian
Ian,
Yes it's the APEX'i 60mm EL electronic boost gauge. I have no idea what causes this or how to fix this.
Flavio
Is it electronic or mechanical???
Mechanical seem to be more reliable.
Flavio have you tested you powermeter against a Rolling Road???
What setting for the drive train loss did you put in??? I believe the blitz-uk.co.uk site says to put it in a -5 is that what you did??
Mine isn't working yet due to unrelated electronics problems (speed signal is knackered) so I'd be interested to here what weight and loss settings you've used - then when mine is fixed next week I can do a direct comparison.
Quote: from Alex Holdroyd on 2:35 pm on Feb. 28, 2002[br]Is it electronic or mechanical???
Mechanical seem to be more reliable.
Flavio have you tested you powermeter against a Rolling Road???
What setting for the drive train loss did you put in??? I believe the blitz-uk.co.uk site says to put it in a -5 is that what you did??
Mine isn't working yet due to unrelated electronics problems (speed signal is knackered) so I'd be interested to here what weight and loss settings you've used - then when mine is fixed next week I can do a direct comparison.
Alex,
The APEX'i gauge is electronic, I was told they are more accurate than a mechanical one, go figure.
I haven't tested the Power Meter against a rolling road but I think it's fairly accurate. I don't think it will work on a rolling road because there is no acceleration when you're on a rolling road.
Drive train loss I set to -5 although it baffles me why the Supra is the only car in the manual for which you have to put in a negative number, all the other cars are either 0 or a positive number. I shall test it soon with different drive train loss numbers to see what the difference is. I am now inclined to believe that the number the Power Meter gives is too optimistic with a negative drive train loss?
I have set the weight to 1750kg. My car weighs 1606kg according to my registration. With a heavyweight like myself and fuel, stereo and other stuff I think 1750 is pretty accurate.
I'll do some runs tomorrow in different gears and with different boost levels. I am running a stock exhaust for the moment (I've ordered a Veilside Titanium exhaust from Japan) so the numbers won't be optimal.
Flavio
(Edited by Flavio at 6:13 pm on Feb. 28, 2002)
What happened to the carbon hiper you were going to get??
Quote: from Alex Holdroyd on 6:24 pm on Feb. 28, 2002[br]What happened to the carbon hiper you were going to get??
Alex,
I wan't entirely happy with the way it hung under the car (too low) so I've sold it on. My ultimate exhaust would be an ARC Titanium but that is horribly expensive, it costs three times as much as the Veilside.
Flavio
What's the arc web site??
They have some massive intercoolers :)
Quote: from Alex Holdroyd on 8:03 pm on Feb. 28, 2002[br]What's the arc web site??
They have some massive intercoolers :)
Alex,
http://www.arcinter.co.jp/
It's only in Japanese though.
Flavio
HI DONT KNOW ABOUT OTHER BOOST CONTROLS BUT I HAVE ONE OF THE RARE HKS ONES AND ITS BLOODY EFFECTIVE I CAN STATE THAT A DODDLE TO USE AND FITS NEATLY INTO CUBBY HOLE ABOVE TURBO-TIMER AND BELOW ICE.
INSTALLED BY THE B0YS AT TDI NO SWEAT
Ian,
Yes it's the APEX'i 60mm EL electronic boost gauge. I have no idea what causes this or how to fix this.
Flavio
Well, I'll have a shufty at it at some point soon as well - see if I can accidently fix it. I'll post any findings :)
-Ian
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