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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Chargecooling


TubbyTwo
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Has anyone attempted to chargecool a Supra on here?

 

I'm running a Celica ST205 chargecooler on my MR2 at the moment and the difference over an uprated intercooler was like night and day and gave very consistent intake temps even when out on track.

 

Just curious really :)

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I wonder why they used a CC on the Celica?

 

Not sure why cooling air via an air/air is any more/less efficient than air/water/air. I just can't see the reason you'd used a CC on a front engined car, mid engine are a different ballgame with their restricted airflow to the engine.

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It is, but there are 2 heat transfers in air/water/air & only one in air/air. The cc should be less efficient. It has to go air to charge cooler to water to radiator to air, the intercooler only goes air to intercooler to air. The cc has to do everything an intercooler has to do, plus the additional transfer of heat to water & back. It's obviously heavier than an air/air setup too.

 

I always found it strange why Toyota went SMIC on the MR2 & CC on the Celica when they look so suited to having each others setups.

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I've wondered why nobody has done this too!! The Celica chargecooler was sat on top of the engine if I recall correctly, so I guess a chargecooler was picked over an intercooler due to heat soak I'd imagine? Just guessing here.

 

I know it's a totally different kettle of fish, but my friend fitted a chargecooler to his escort turbo years and years ago, replaced his intercooler, he got another 29hp (before and after on the rollers).

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I've wondered why nobody has done this too!! The Celica chargecooler was sat on top of the engine if I recall correctly, so I guess a chargecooler was picked over an intercooler due to heat soak I'd imagine? Just guessing here.

 

I know it's a totally different kettle of fish, but my friend fitted a chargecooler to his escort turbo years and years ago, replaced his intercooler, he got another 29hp (before and after on the rollers).

People have done it, mostly drag setups, they can pack the water with ice & get great cooling capacity after being stood on the line for a couple of minutes (something you'd not get on a FMIC without spraying nos or c02).

 

Performance gains like that are hard to justify in terms of which is better due to the other factors. What condition the old intercooler was in, what spec the cc setup was (it could have been a kickass setup vs a small intercooler setup).

 

I'd not be wanting to try it, the added weight would put me off. I also don't see how it could be any better, I use a big intercooler, a charge cooler would need a core similar size to my 4 row (thats 6"x12"x5") to allow a similar flow & pressure drop then another radiator to cool the water down. It just doesn't add up.

 

For drag cars, fine, road cars no benefit (possibly worse) IMHO

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When I see how 90% of FMIC are fitted with gaps all round them Im not surprised that a charge cooler is more effiecient.;)

I think you're missing the point here. An unducted FMIC will perform equally as poorly as an unducted CC. All the CC is doing is seperating the 2 flows of air (intake air & ambient air) via water.

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He replaced a good condition alloy intercooler that he purchased off me (it was only on the car about 2 months before I took it off and sold the car) so I was suprised to see such large gains. I've no idea what sort of chargecooler it was sorry, was similar in size to the intercooler it replaced as it was mounted in the same place. Can't remember much more than that as it was about 11years ago now :D

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Air to water to air chargecoolers are popular on mid and rear engined turbocharged cars as it's harrd to package an air to air cooler in good air flow. Hence why Lotus used an air to water to air cooler on the Esprit, and why they are popular on the MR2 (I think I was one of, if not the first to do one of these). You can package a small water to air cooler in the nose of the car, in front of, or preferably instead of, the air con condenser.

 

However, you need a big water volume to avoid heat soak, a pump and complicated piping, plus they are not as efficient as a good air to air cooler in ducted air flow with good ducted EXI air flow to a dynamically low pressure region. Unless the packaging calls for an air to water to air set up you are almost certainly better with ducted air to air in a front engined car.

 

Air to water to air are popular in drag cars as they only run for a few seconds, and the water content can cooled by ice, dry ice or refrigeration. You'll find VERY few circuit race cars use air to water to air because of heat soak and weight and complexity. Very short intercooler pipework is over rated, the air volume and flow speed is such that PIPE volume is pretty insignificant, within reason. Similarly air flow speed and laminar effects makes lagging I/C pipes futile.

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what about supercharging.would that be the same.ive just got the cc from a straight six jag,which is basicly the intake manifold.very clever set up.so what you are saying is fmic is basicly better in the supra due to the volume of air passing through it.where as the charge cooler will suffer from too much heat soak.

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what about supercharging.would that be the same.ive just got the cc from a straight six jag,which is basicly the intake manifold.very clever set up.so what you are saying is fmic is basicly better in the supra due to the volume of air passing through it.where as the charge cooler will suffer from too much heat soak.

 

I think all the pros and cons of air to air versus water to air have been pretty well discussed in this thread, its not really a question of heat soak more efficiency, yes you could get a water to air chargecooler to achieve the same efficiency as an air to air but the complexity is the killer on an application such as the Supra that lends itself so well to air/air chargecooling, there really is nothing what so ever to be gained on the Supra by using water to air, you would be adding weight with all the extra components/coolant and an electric pump to deliver the water would be a head ache and require maintenance.

The only benefits i can see of the water/air chargecooler are where there are packaging issues (eg mid/rear engine) or running a power boat where you could use sea water to achieve near

100% efficiency :D

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