View Full Version : Fitting a bleed valve...
scooby_doo_do
19-03-04, 09:03
I'm going to have a play and try an attempt to fit this myself... Its actually a manual boost controller, but i'm guessing they are the same thing...
Has anyone got any pics of what pipe i need to cut to fit it ? and any other installation tips would be helpfull..
Thanks.
Craig,
Not done it on my supe but fitted an EBC to my 200SX, basically on the SX the boost solenoid (manual boost valve) went in the line just ahead of the actuator on the turbo......... think the supra has it's own factory solenoid rather than an actuator for controlling boost so you'd put the valve in the line just ahead of that (before the turbos I mean).
hth,
Brian.
scooby_doo_do
20-03-04, 10:59
Any idea or this one then chaps....
Here's a not so clear picture of the engine, but hopefully someone can tell me where to put it ?
Ta.
http://www.handsontraining.co.uk/supra/bleed%20valve.jpg
scooby_doo_do
22-03-04, 11:45
Bump.....
Still need help...
Supra ST Myster
22-03-04, 12:37
doesnt it go inline with that blue pipe?
Craig
Whey do you want a bleed valve you've got AVC-R in your car?
scooby_doo_do
22-03-04, 13:41
Na, Had the apexi bits taken out to pay for my engine mounts that went :(
Back to school again...........
scooby_doo_do
22-03-04, 15:03
everyone agree with the blue pipe ? As i'm about to cut its belly open.....
Craig,
Looking at that pic, the thing that the blue pipe goes into on the left hand side of the pic looks like a boost limiting VSV, and the right hand side end goes to the turbo actuator.......... there should be another hose from the turbo actuator to the turbo (or some kind of inlet pressure source) - this is the hose you want to put the valve in line with afaik, not the blue one in the pic.
HTH,
Brian.
Supra ST Myster
22-03-04, 16:26
this pic shows you which pipe it is. Hose 2, the other pipe goes to a manual boost controller inside the car so you dont need that, just goes in between hose 2.
Supra ST Myster
22-03-04, 16:30
which i belive is the blue pipe!????
scooby_doo_do
22-03-04, 16:55
Hasn't turned up yet, :(
But as i've just found out it isn't a bleed valve such to speak, its a manual boost controller which looks like this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2468678673&category=32094
So i take it, it still goes in the same place ?
Doh.... My bad...
Thats a piss poor manual boost controller:innocent:
It must have cost all of 2quid to make
scooby_doo_do
22-03-04, 17:17
lol....As i said... not that one.... :innocent: :werd:
Supra ST Myster
22-03-04, 19:34
again belive it goes in the same place, that one that you posted a pic of has a ball bearing in it with a small hole at the top so the tighter you screw it in the harder it is to push the ball bearing pass the hole to bleed it off.
The blue pipe goes from the wastegate actuator to the wastegate VSV. The wastegate VSV shuts at a set boost pressure so the wastegate only opens once the factory preset amount of boost has been reached. This stops the tailoff of boost buildup as the wastegate creeps open under manifold pressure like the MkIII Supra had.
Anyway, my point is that you can put the bleeder in there, or the hose that goes from the turbo housing to the actuator, it doesn't matter as air leaking out of either hose would cause a pressure drop in the actuator. The blue hose is way more accessible so I'd put it there. Don't go mad on how wide you open the bleeder at first :)
-Ian
scooby_doo_do
23-03-04, 17:18
ok...I cut the blue pipe and put it on... Drove..Twisted it.... Drove some more...Twisted it.... Drove some more.... Twisted it....Drove some more.... Won't twist anymore :( Still 0.7 bar...
I think i'll try and put it on the other pipe when the engine's cooled down - As the back of my hand just found a nice hot pipe...
Craig.
scooby_doo_do
24-03-04, 17:23
whhhooooooohooooooooo....
Boost all the way :-)
Me happy again...:thumbs:
Supra ST Myster
24-03-04, 17:42
so what did you do in the end, did you fit that manual boost valve that you showed in the pic?
scooby_doo_do
24-03-04, 19:21
Yep... I had to fit it to the other pipe that goes from the turbo to the actuator (think thats right).. It was just to the right of that blue pipe in the pic..
Just need to have a clean up of the pipes as its a little untidy at the moment because i didn't want to cut anything in case it was the wrong pipe..
Thanks for all your help chaps..
Craig,
Originally posted by scooby_doo_do
Yep... I had to fit it to the other pipe that goes from the turbo to the actuator (think thats right).. It was just to the right of that blue pipe in the pic..
Thanks for all your help chaps..
Craig,
NP's ;)
Hi guys,
I had one of those manual boost controler fitted bought from the ebay as well, I only have stock exhause with induction kit on, will I ever hit fuel cut??? or upto 14psi ???, Im only have 11psi now.
thanks
Or have I fit it right?
even when its all closed, still 11psi wount go any higher?
thanks.
Originally posted by tango
Or have I fit it right?
even when its all closed, still 11psi wount go any higher?
thanks.
are you sure you put it in the right pipe? you want it in the turbo to actuator pipe and not the vsv to actuator.
any chance of a pic of what you have done for reference,
I'm thinking of putting one in. is the one on ebay alright or is there a better on avalible
:stupid:
Hi guys,
I think I fitted on between the vsv to actuator,
Is that wrong, or where is from the turbo to wastage?
thanks.
Hi guys,
Thanks for remind me about the pipes,
I think I put it in the wrong pipe, right one should be between the turbo and actuaor.
thanks.
I be try it tonight.
any chance of a pic where this should go as im intereste in fitting a dawes device (ball bearing) manual boost controller
Final question, the valves are ok to use with autos arent they??
Final question, the valves are ok to use with autos arent they??
Yes, of course.
whhhooooooohooooooooo....
Boost all the way :-)
Me happy again...:thumbs:
Please can you post a pic or diagram - I dont know what pipe to plug my MBC into.
Ian C provided some really good TT hose piccies. Is the hose on one of these piccies ? :respekt:
Suprasteve
24-03-05, 12:34
Please can you post a pic or diagram - I dont know what pipe to plug my MBC into.
Ian C provided some really good TT hose piccies. Is the hose on one of these piccies ? :respekt:
hope this helps:-
I've just fitted this MBC to my standard Jspec:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7960792764&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT
If you look between the fan and the front of the engine on the left hand side you'll see the pipes shown in the previous picture by "Supra TT myster". This picture shows Hose 2 (the one on the right) which has been cut and a T bar attached - ignore this as you'll be putting your MBC there instead (unless you want it routed into your dashboard)
I come across a problem with my MBC, even with the screw fully tightened there was no change in boost still at 0.6 bar. Out of curiosity i tried it without the pipe on (very stupid i know) and i hit fuel cut in 3rd at 1.2 bar so i come to the conclusion even with the screw fully tightened it was still restricting the air flow so i used a very small drill bit and made the hole larger. This done the job as i could now adjust the screw so that boost settled on 1.0 bar. :)
did the turbo feel more responsive/quicker spool up after fitting the ball and spring type valve steve?
Suprasteve
24-03-05, 13:05
yes it does but nothing major. You can certainly hear the whistle of the turbos more now and the tone of the exhaust has changed.
It did fix another problem i had tho - before if i dropped down from say 4th gear to 2nd and if the revs stayed above 4,000 rpm, sometimes the #2 turbo didn't spool up at all - now i don't have that problem so overtaking slow vehicles down country lane is far safer.
[QUOTE=Suprasteve]hope this helps:-
If you look between the fan and the front of the engine on the left hand side you'll see the pipes shown in the previous picture
Thanks for that steve, found hose 2. Did you simply plug the mbc both ends into hose 2?
Suprasteve
24-03-05, 13:35
yep - either cut the hose in half and stick the MBC in the middle
or unplug one end stick the MBC in the pipe and add a new bit of pipe on the other end.
Find a big empty bit of road (you're be going silly speeds whilst looking at the gauge not the road!) you'll need to pull over at each end and adjust it. They say 3rd gear is the one use for setting it up but i found 4th best.
when testing it remember things get fecking hot down there and turn the engine off first as the fan hurts when you bash your fingers on it !!! (take it from me) :cry:
ardasaliah
24-03-05, 14:15
http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=13234
Hi, see where the red arrow is pointing
that’s the hose that you need to connect the bleed valve to. Get your self some hose- fuel hose is good. A few clips to hold the hoses is place.
Take the hose of the wastgate and connect it to the bleeder. Attached a 2 inches hose to the other side of the bleeder- the attached the end of that hose back to the wastgate.
When the bleeder is closed you have a stock set up. As you open the valve the boost will rise
yep - either cut the hose in half and stick the MBC in the middle
or unplug one end stick the MBC in the pipe and add a new bit of pipe on the other end.
Find a big empty bit of road (you're be going silly speeds whilst looking at the gauge not the road!) you'll need to pull over at each end and adjust it. They say 3rd gear is the one use for setting it up but i found 4th best.
when testing it remember things get fecking hot down there and turn the engine off first as the fan hurts when you bash your fingers on it !!! (take it from me) :cry:
thanks steve - done it - youre right 4th gear is best - I can get a max of 0.9 bar in the warm weather :tongue:
cheers for the advice
so what did your boost increase from and to 250horses??
0.7-0.9?
did you have to drill the valve out a bit?
In the cold i was getting 1 bar (decat pipe)
Recent warm weather went down to 0.8 bar
Fitted the MBC and it went up to 0.9 bar fully maxed
Then I read Suprasteves comments on making the hole bigger.
So I did, and got out my trusty Black & Decker.
Whoopie presto, 1.0 bar most of the time with a short max at 1.1 bar in 5th
SUPRA STEVE IS A GENIUS :D :D
ardasaliah thanks for your pic - very helpful mate :)
footnote to other attempters: The end of MBC with the hole goes to the wastegate end (and not the other way round as I found out :read: )
hmmm. is that all?
my uk spec is standard, other than 3" full decat, and I hit ~14 psi. Max ever (spike) has been 14.7psi, most common is 13.7psi.
don't ya wanna go higher? Will these MBC's not allow you to?
hmmm. is that all?
my uk spec is standard, other than 3" full decat, and I hit ~14 psi. Max ever (spike) has been 14.7psi, most common is 13.7psi.
don't ya wanna go higher? Will these MBC's not allow you to?
Ive only got the rear cat out. If you widened the MBC hole you would get more boost but 1.0 bar in this temp is a safe bet. In the cold it would go upto 1.4.
(As my car pre-MBC lost 0.4 bar from the freezing days we had to when the weather got warmer; I assume that the MBC'd car will gain 0.4 bar in the freezing cold)
Disadvantage of the MBC is that you would then have to open up the bonnet to wind down boost on freezing days to a safe J Spec Ceramic Stock 1.2 bar.
1.0 BAR IS 14.5 PSI
1.2 BAR IS 17.4 PSI
:eyebrows:
oh ok :) it's just I had always thought that with a boost controller you could raise the boost to anything you wanted - even dangerous levels. Guess not :(
this is the sucker i've bought off ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7962557801&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT
Right got it today and fitted it, just turned the screw a quarter in and I was getting 1.05 bar!! Car felt very responsive and the turbos seemed to come on better. The big issue was that the car felt like it was hesitating or jerky once it peaked at 1 bar ish?? Is this early sign of fuel cut, restriction caused by both cats or is it the fuel pump not up to the job??
Anyway I then turned the screw anti-clockwise(out)so it was barely in the valve itself. Went out for another run and got 1.2bar!!!!! eeek!! Car felt again jerky over 1bar, but im left wondering whats happened to the fuel cut??I thought turning the screw out/anti-clockwise would decrease the boost not increase it?? Could the large levels of boost be down to the diameter of piping im using to plumb it into the acutator?
sounds like a tempermental boost controller
the one I got gave max boost when it was wound in fully
the max boost is 1.0 bar so its a pretty safe MBC
I was so pleased with it I got more in
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7964494497&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
would it help if i compressed the spring a bit more?? it seems a little saggy - perhaps the bolt being wound out completely didnt put much pressure on the spring allowing a lot more boost to be run...
1 bar is great tho :)
SEEMS A LOGICAL ASSUMPION - spring must need some tension
I had the opposite problem and max at 1 bar which I am delighted with as I never plan to go above as poof tubbies = £1500
try extending the spring a little then re-inserting (not ideal)
PM me if you want one of my MBCs as I would be interested to hear of the result
when you say extending the spring - do you mean pull it apart a bit then compres back into the valve?? or do you mean compress it with your two fingers?
Extend It So That When It Goes Back In Its Taut
got it sorted today and i now boost at 1 bar all day
quick question, will hand tightening the locking nut suffice, or would you recommend using a socket/spanner on it?
got it sorted today and i now boost at 1 bar all day
quick question, will hand tightening the locking nut suffice, or would you recommend using a socket/spanner on it?
nip it lightly with mole grips - keep the mole grips in your car - when weather gets colder you will boost higher :cool:
why the mole grips?? is it likely to come loose???
nah...........i meant the mini 99p mole grips you can get so you dont over tighten.
No probs about over boosting as I am sure you would known when u did :eek: and have a handy set of mimi mole grips in the glove box
first run i actually hit fuel cut @ 1.1 bar, not as severe as everyone makes out!
first run i actually hit fuel cut @ 1.1 bar, not as severe as everyone makes out! Did the red triangle light on the rev counter come on at the same time? Proper fuel cut is horrible. What FCD have you got fitted?
Did the red triangle light on the rev counter come on at the same time? Proper fuel cut is horrible. What FCD have you got fitted?
AFAIK no FCD is fitted, no red triangle came on (or i didnt notice it) as soon as it held at 1.1 bar for few seconds, the power cut and then came back on again
pre-fuel cut perhaps?
Then you didn't hit fuel cut. Which explains why you thought it was not as bad as "everyone makes out".
Then you didn't hit fuel cut. Which explains why you thought it was not as bad as "everyone makes out".
so what was it then??only happened once and was a deffinate quick cut on power??FCD probably been fitted previously?
Plugs breaking down is the usual one that seems like FC but not as severe. Stock FC happens at 1.0 bar iirc and makes the red triangle light come on. If the car has had a FCD fitted then the FC point is either raised to 1.25bar (Thor) or removed altogether (Cheapo FCD)
if a plug had broken down though or begun to break down wouldnt i be getting the same symptons @ 1 bar and generally the car would run badly on and off boost?
Plugs break down at certain boost levels but they are still fine below that level.
when you say 'break down' do you mean physical damage to the plug? or do you mean they dont produce an efficient spark??
also do you think my fuel cut has been lifted?
hadyn you need grade 7 spark plugs, if you have hit 1.2 bar you must also have a FCD already fitted
didnt hit 1.2 liam, only 1.1 :) i've got the NGK grade 7 copper plugs in as reccommened by mkiv.com
*edit* the cut was more like the sensation you get when you hit the j-spec limiter at 110 mph :)
that really does sound like plugs, check your gaps
that really does sound like plugs, check your gaps
well i got a much worse sensation @ 1 bar with the same grade 7 plugs gapped to 1.1mm, it was like constant jerkiness and hesitation, but in a new set of the same NGKs gapped to 0.85mm and they're fine running 1 bar, it just seemed cut when it overboosted to 1.1 bar as i was setting the boost
Went out for another run and got 1.2bar!!!!! eeek!!
thats why i said you had a VFCC
thats why i said you had a VFCC
where can i find it??theres no sign of anything knocking about obviously? aftermarket ecu perhaps?
you need to look under the carpet in the passenger foot well, look at the ecu stickers and have a good look around, even under the ecu for piggy backs
i've always thought its been played around with whilst it was in japan liam - no one fits 11" wide rims for standard power do they?? also the t-piece for the boost gauge was still there(as you know), and the hose slipped incredibly easy off the actuator when i was installing the valve, which was a bit suprising when you consider how rigid the other hoses are
well i got a much worse sensation @ 1 bar with the same grade 7 plugs gapped to 1.1mm, it was like constant jerkiness and hesitation, but in a new set of the same NGKs gapped to 0.85mm and they're fine running 1 bar, it just seemed cut when it overboosted to 1.1 bar as i was setting the boost
You cannot assume they are gapped at 0.85mm unless you physically gapped them yourself. They are not pre gapped out of the packet - NGK expect you to gap them. That's why you gap plugs, sounds like the problem you are having above 1.1bar ;)
:( went to work this morning and with the colder temps the boost spiked back up to 1.1 bar and the resulting 'cut' sensation reoccured. As soon as this happened i pulled up and removed the valve and plugged the original boost source hose back into the actuator to get my old peak of 0.9 bar back. Turbo seems to spool a bit slower now and it just doesnt seem as 'fast' I suppose thats the difference 0.2 bar makes :)
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