big power sequentials

I remember asking about a sequential upgrade system once. I got the face snapped off me (by a trader) for being so dumb as to ask about something the development costs would be horrendous on, and how the stock system couldnt cope with it. Seem's my dreams of such a setup were not so crazy after all.......

http://www.speedforsale.com/supraparts//product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=553

This, with a solaris ECU, drop in injectors, CW intercooler painted black, decat and Tanabe touring exhaust would make for fun, it would look almost stock and be very quick

Has anyone on this forum tried this kit yet?

They are hybrids Calling them "big power sequentials" makes it sound new but hybridisation of stockers has been around for years.

However, they do look rather large though and more extreme a hybridisation than others. I've looked at those graphs and some stuff doesn't seem to add up though... The mods list of the car used shows a decat and an FMIC as the only engine mods. That plus the stockers running at 1.2bar (17psi) does not, to me, add up to 380bhp at the fly, never mind the wheels.

Then, the second test (after the hybrids have been installed) is run at 2psi higher boost (19psi instead of 17), so it's not surprising that the power figure increases. What is surprising though is that the AFRs go richer even though boost pressure increases, and without any ECU mods I would have thought we'd be at the 100% duty cycle point here so more boost = leaner mix... Also of note is that the peak power figure goes up 40bhp but the peak torque figure stays exactly the same.

The lag is increased noticeably as well, the TTC graphs show that well, there is about 750rpm more lag with the hybrids before getting to 17psi. The stockers in TTC hit 16psi at 4000rpm, the hybrids are on about 8.5psi then, so half the pressure. Mmm. Going back to sequential mode, the first turbo on stockers hits 9psi at about 2400rpm. The hybrids achieve 9psi at 3000rpm. Quite a sacrifice if you want to keep the sequential system because of its responsiveness.

Ho hum, seems a bit negative, even though I've always been a fan of hybrids. But considering they cost a steep $3300 + shipping, and you get a shedload of extra lag, and the septics predictably undermine all the test data by quoting ludicrous rear wheel powers (over 500rwhp on hybrids when it's tricky to get that on a T67? Get a grip.), then I'm unconvinced.

-Ian

Rule of thumb for me with American HP is whatever they say is at the wheels equates to whats at the fly over here.

I would take that as 500fwhp. Pretty good figure, if its all above board. As you say, there is a fair bit of compromise though and a GT35r would be much more suited to that application.

OK, In time some member may purchase, and report a result, which I had hoped someone already had. I'll see how the funds go, may consider buying another car and trying this out.

Isnt there a thread about a "proper" sequential system being developed over in the states.. sure that was a while ago too.

Sound Performance Twin sequential T61's?

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455869

In the danish Supra club we have two cars running "big power" twins, one of them even being a 3.4L stroker. I just assume they are sequential (anything else wouldn't make sense to me). Its a HKS setup.

http://onh93a.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pYAvEo5eiD34s5ZG0wFF0NWPIJwnP1RtqslGtXnBBYH7wmo6JC0lLGcO5-osc9Au_FTGTfkP84b8s3XYeweVG5A/198.jpg

Here is a partial part list:

HKS 3,4L strokerkit

HKS 2835GT turbokit

HKS knaster 280'

HKS knasthjul/tandrem

HKS fuelraid 1000cc dyser

HKS F-con V pro

HKS IC type R

HKS Titanium Hiper udstødning

Exedy carbon Triple plate clutch

The HKS and other twin kits run the turbos in parallel not sequential.

Really? Why use that compared to a single then?

Really? Why use that compared to a single then?

2 smaller turbos to generate the same power as one big one can do it more efficiently (usually). They create less heat and generally use less effort to flow the same amount of air.

2 smaller turbos to generate the same power as one big one can do it more efficiently (usually). They create less heat and generally use less effort to flow the same amount of air.

jeez you dont half pay for it in complexity though, looking at that pic

While looking to see if there were any further updates on the SP sequential kit, I found another interesting product they are selling.

http://www.sound-performance.com/p192/Sound-Performance-Quick-Spool-Valve/product_info.html

The Quick Spool Valve has a butterfly valve blocking a scroll of the divided turbo housing making the turbo act as if it were a smaller turbo.The switching solenoid can be wired up to open at a set point and when the valve opens up you have the full potential of your turbo with no sacrifice of peak power

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=481292

Sound Performance Twin sequential T61's?

 

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455869

Thats the one..

Not read in detail so not sure if there are any issues raised about its quality or performance but should be a candidate if all works well.

While looking to see if there were any further updates on the SP sequential kit, I found another interesting product they are selling.

 

http://www.sound-performance.com/p192/Sound-Performance-Quick-Spool-Valve/product_info.html

 

 

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=481292

http://spracingonline.com/upload/files/1/spvalve.jpg

No good for a divided manifold or a non divided turbo though. I've seen these before years and years ago and they were basic but did improve some midrange pull. SP aren't doing anything funky with the control yet it is either open or closed but that may well be mappable with some sort of stepper motor, MAP sensor and ecu setup.

Edit to say: They do state what it will and won't work with, I replied before opening the links.

jeez you dont half pay for it in complexity though, looking at that pic

I was thinking the same! The pipework on that makes mine look like a doddle, and mines a complete pain in the arse!

I was thinking the same! The pipework on that makes mine look like a doddle, and mines a complete pain in the arse!

That thing has twin wastegates & screamers and a balance pipe.

I'm wondering if the balancer is necessary?

Internal wastegates will simply the plumbing by a fair margin.

I wonder if the Skyline boys run a balance pipe on their GT2530's?

I also remain unconvinved about the CT12/GT28 hybrids and tbh I wouldn't want to be the first person in the UK with them. Forgetting the pressure for the moment, do they give figures for airflow? It would be interesting to see CFM for these vs stockers at the same pressure for a given amount of rpm.

I'm wondering if the balancer is necessary?

i would think a balancer quite essential as it would be impossible to get the wastegates to open simultaneously

Surely if you are considering twin sequentials it would be easier to use a VNT turbo?

VNT looks like an utter bastard to set up though mighty interesting. Has anyone had a go with one?

From my understanding on VNT turbo design, the idea is to have a constant boost pressure and the vanes are adjusted to achieve this. Surely then with a half decent standalone ECU and a solenoid, the boost pressure could then be mapped against this output....

This is just from what I've read, so I could be mistaken.

That thing has twin wastegates & screamers and a balance pipe.

 

I'm wondering if the balancer is necessary?

 

Internal wastegates will simply the plumbing by a fair margin.

 

I wonder if the Skyline boys run a balance pipe on their GT2530's?

 

I also remain unconvinved about the CT12/GT28 hybrids and tbh I wouldn't want to be the first person in the UK with them. Forgetting the pressure for the moment, do they give figures for airflow? It would be interesting to see CFM for these vs stockers at the same pressure for a given amount of rpm.

My Blitz based kit also has all of that, plus the wastegates plumb back into the exhaust yet is much simpler than that!

I'll get some decent pics of it all bolted up to the side of the block when I get to that stage of my engine build.

Cheers Tony

From my understanding on VNT turbo design, the idea is to have a constant boost pressure and the vanes are adjusted to achieve this. Surely then with a half decent standalone ECU and a solenoid, the boost pressure could then be mapped against this output....

 

This is just from what I've read, so I could be mistaken.

I believe Ryan has been itching to have a go at a pair of VNT's. He was trying to get me to buy some off his brother and modify my install to fit them, but I just couldn't be doing with the additional headache.

If they were a straight replacement that's exactly what I would have now.

I'd love to see a Supe with a twin VNT kit though, would be very impressive set-up indeed.

Given that GT/R/S turbos grow on trees, what is the avaialbility of VNT's and aren't they a bit pricey?

Dimitri bought a set with the intention of putting them on his bro's car, so maybe as the year goes by he will report his findings. He will be running parrallel.