No anti freeze in car

Ah nuts, I seemed to have missed the fact it was cold today!

The coolant system is only filled with water, should I go any drain it now seeing as it's supposed to be -3 tonight? Just removed the rad cap but not sure thats enough in case it start to freeze up.

It's snowing here but not settling too much

Might be worth pulling the bottom hose off for peace of mind:)

it would need to get seriously cold to be a problem. When was the car last run?

When was the car last run?

Last week, it's not been warm anytime recently, but is up on axle stands again.

I was considering pulling the bottom rad hose as Jamie mentioned, but the system has some rust and it'll make a mess of the new driveway

I always work on the basis that it needs to be -5 or more to get close to any damage. I may be wrong and I wouldnt hold me to it though, but I think its safe.

Bit late now, but for next time..

How about starting the car up and getting it nice & warm, it'll take hours to cool down and might see you through an overnight cold snap?

The pug was well and truely frosted up this morning, I couldn't open 3 of the doors or the boot initially, I had to climb inside and start pushing the stuck doors open from the inside.

Hmm, tricky. Did you get this sorted Homer? I would have thought that if water freezes in the coolant pipes, it might cause serious damage when it expands.

Branners: just out of interest, why do you think it would need to get below -5 before it would give problems? I'm not going to hold you to it and I realise that you only gave a rough figure, but why not anything below 0? Is it because the ambient air temp needs to be about -5 before water in the coolant pipes would freeze (presumably because it's covered over by the bonnet, hence protected from the frost effect)?

There might be others who fall foul of this over the winter, so it would be good to explore the topic a bit beforehand.

just personal opinion Im afraid, nothing technical behind it. I tend to work on the basis that the water needs to seriously frozen to expand enough to damage anything. The block is going to take quite something to crack, and the hose work can take a lot of pressure before it fails. Its a pressurised system after all.

On my old calibra I left it for a whole winter with no anti-freeze and no problems. It sat still for weeks on end so never got warm.

Not something I wold recommend, but one night of freezing temperatures would struggle to damage a car.

JB

dont forget people that the anti-freeze offers some corrosion protection i would never dream of putting neat water in mine

I need to do mine tonight as it only has water in it at the moment as I replaced the rad the evening before SupraPod, I look forward to laying on a cold driveway to get the under tray and bottom hose off, wahooo

I wouldn't worry about it.

You'd have to be incredibly unlucky to do any damage as the block has core plugs for this very reason. The most likely scenario if you did happen to leave the block in a sub zero environment is that it would pop one of the plugs out.

I wouldn't worry about it.

You'd have to be incredibly unlucky to do any damage as the block has core plugs for this very reason. The most likely scenario if you did happen to leave the block in a sub zero environment is that it would pop one of the plugs out.

Good info. I didn't know that. (I'm not going to test it though!)

hmm, seems we all forget anti freeze once in our live's.

You may have seen me in my little jeep on youtube if not search farley quarry and take a look, well anyways it was about 2 years ago it snowed and was really cold for about 2 weeks on the trot me being a div totally forgot i had changed the rad due to damage, the one day i decided to go drifting in it as its rear wheel drive until i manually change it to 4 wheel drive, i jumped init turned the key and nothing didnt even turn over, thought bloddy battery, i opened the bonnet to change the batt and noticed the top rad hose wise well larger then normal so i had a squeeze and it was frozen solid, i then looked in the rad bottle and guess what also froze solid.

So i had an idea i got a blower heater spare so stuck it under the bonnet for about 4 hours, hmm was lovley and snug water all melted as planned, had a look for core plugs on the floor but nothing so attemped to fire the beast up, second turn and off she was hmm sounded lovly had a quick blast up and down the street (sliding and drifting was brill) and no damage at all VERY lucky i think.

I wouldn't worry about it.

You'd have to be incredibly unlucky to do any damage as the block has core plugs for this very reason. The most likely scenario if you did happen to leave the block in a sub zero environment is that it would pop one of the plugs out.

Thats good info, thanks Tony.

I just picked up some of this which should do the trick hopefully

http://www.commaoil.com/Product%20Pages/Coolantswinter/superredconc.htm

hmm, seems we all forget anti freeze once in our live's.

You may have seen me in my little jeep on youtube if not search farley quarry and take a look, well anyways it was about 2 years ago it snowed and was really cold for about 2 weeks on the trot me being a div totally forgot i had changed the rad due to damage, the one day i decided to go drifting in it as its rear wheel drive until i manually change it to 4 wheel drive, i jumped init turned the key and nothing didnt even turn over, thought bloddy battery, i opened the bonnet to change the batt and noticed the top rad hose wise well larger then normal so i had a squeeze and it was frozen solid, i then looked in the rad bottle and guess what also froze solid.

So i had an idea i got a blower heater spare so stuck it under the bonnet for about 4 hours, hmm was lovley and snug water all melted as planned, had a look for core plugs on the floor but nothing so attemped to fire the beast up, second turn and off she was hmm sounded lovly had a quick blast up and down the street (sliding and drifting was brill) and no damage at all VERY lucky i think.

You were lucky! I've heard of engines shearing the blades from their water pumps as the engine tries to turn the pump surrounded by frozen water.

Yes thats what core plugs are for;) one thing i will mention, although I'm not sure about a closed environment, but warm water will actually freeze quicker than cold, so warming the engine up first might not be a good idea.

Yes thats what core plugs are for;) one thing i will mention, although I'm not sure about a closed environment, but warm water will actually freeze quicker than cold, so warming the engine up first might not be a good idea.

dont want to make you look stupid but how the hell do you work that out, please make me look stupid if im wrong.

It must have to go cold to then freeze surely, so if warm its gotta take longer to then go cold and freeze.

sadly its a proven scientific fact that warm water will freeze quicker. Its to do with heat exchange and all sorts of wierd stuff like that.

The Mpemba effect

Core plugs are not really designed to protect engines from freezing collant any more. Old style freeze-plugs were, but these days core plugs are just there to plug the holes needed to cast the block. They are very unlikely to save your engine if the coolant freezes, apart from anything else they are in very tight.

Can hot water freeze faster than cold water?

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/hot_water.html

everyday something a little new huh?

Core plugs are not really designed to protect engines from freezing collant any more. Old style freeze-plugs were, but these days core plugs are just there to plug the holes needed to cast the block. They are very unlikely to save your engine if the coolant freezes, apart from anything else they are in very tight.

Trust me they'll pop out if they need to.

Yes thats what core plugs are for;) one thing i will mention, although I'm not sure about a closed environment, but warm water will actually freeze quicker than cold, so warming the engine up first might not be a good idea.

Can hot water freeze faster than cold water?

 

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/hot_water.html

 

everyday something a little new huh?

I doubt that applies when the entire engine, a whacking huge heat soak, has got up to temperature.

just personal opinion Im afraid, nothing technical behind it.

I'd say it's more like -4.5

For info - it was fine I popped out around 6am just before work and the water in the rad wasn't showing any signs of freezing even though it was -2

However I have emptied it now!