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Supra Handling and Grip!!!


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Hi Everybody!!

 

I am a new member to this club so be nice!!!

 

I have just purchased a 1997 TT VVTI Auto with the manual overide on the steering wheel.

 

I am very happy with the car which is running more or less standard except full Miami GT stainless exhaust.

 

I have only driven the car a few time due to work etc. However, i got caught in the wet on my first day in the car and found that the car was very difficult to drive quick without the rear wheels spinning very badly and causing the back end to skid out. I must say i find the handling of this car to be very touchy and unpredictable.

 

I previously owned a subaru impreza and a very nice club members GTO TT which i had to sell due to a seperation. I will be honest i was looking for another GTO but after months of searching and driving hundreds of miles around the country to so called MINT examples (NOT) i gave up and realised i will not find another GTO like my old one (MINT). I loved my GTO which was running at approx 360bhp. It was very quick and handled amazingly. In fact it handled better than my impreza. I only bought the impreza after my seperation as an every day car. But now i am sorted out again with my garage i wanted another weekend toy!! Actually i was supprised today when i had a subaru classic (WRX i think) up my back side and when i turned the corner i opened up my throttle in manual mode and he was right on my backside. I would have thought the Supra would have pulled away from him??? Maybe i need a few mods first.

 

What sort of mods will i need to reach approx 450BHP??

 

I have always loved Supras (who doesnt!!) and had an N/A before. But was always worried about the grip and handling. I find it very difficult to use the power of may SupraTT even in standard form?? God knows what it will be like if i go for more power. I was hoping to upgrade to approx 450bhp eventually, but am now concerned it will be a knightmare to drive?

 

Maybe it is the tyres on the car or the fact it is runnig on standard suspension?? The car has 18" wheels with brand new Nan kan tyres??

 

I also would like to ask if anybody knows what the red button is for at the front on the front of the auto gear stick. It has japanese writing next to it. I pushed it but nothing really hppened??

 

Any feedback would be appreciated.

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Nan kan tyres??

I wouldn't have them on my Supra...there may be a geometry issue or suspension issue here, but to start with I'd ditch those tyres before they ditch you.

red button ?

Never seen a red button in a Supra before. I'm sure an expert will be along shortly to answer that one.

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Hello and welcome :)

 

They are not normally difficult to drive especially in dry weather so I would look towards your suspension, tyre's or wheels for a possible fault or wrong fitting.

 

Do you know the sizes and offsets of the wheels that are fitted? A wrongly chosen fitting, especially on the rear can upset the handling very easily.

 

The tyre choice on a supra (or any RWD car) is extremely important. The ones on your car are known to be horrendous and I'm sure nearly everyone would recommend you change them for a quality brand as soon as possible.

 

Don't take it the wrong way, but are you used to driving high powered RWD cars? They need to be driven very differently to the 4wd cars you've listed so I wonder if your experience of rwd might be a factor here.

 

Regarding the mods, click here: BPU These mods will get you to 400bhp very cheaply, however going beyond this you'd need to be looking at some much more expensive mos, which considering your feedback so far I'd hold off on until you find out the issue.

 

The red button: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=158647 (This is the forum joke as nearly everyone asks about it)

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am no expert but the red but is so you can move the car when it is turned off...

 

ie with it been automatic if you takr the hankbrake off it will not move due to the gears/park mode etc, press the red button in and hey presto it will role...

 

something along these line anyway

 

WELCOME as well;)

 

dam too slow

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Hello and welcome :)

 

They are not normally difficult to drive especially in dry weather so I would look towards your suspension, tyre's or wheels for a possible fault or wrong fitting.

 

Do you know the sizes and offsets of the wheels that are fitted? A wrongly chosen fitting, especially on the rear can upset the handling very easily.

 

The tyre choice on a supra (or any RWD car) is extremely important. The ones on your car are known to be horrendous and I'm sure nearly everyone would recommend you change them for a quality brand as soon as possible.

 

Don't take it the wrong way, but are you used to driving high powered RWD cars? They need to be driven very differently to the 4wd cars you've listed so I wonder if your experience of rwd might be a factor here.

 

Regarding the mods, click here: BPU These mods will get you to 400bhp very cheaply, however going beyond this you'd need to be looking at some much more expensive mos, which considering your feedback so far I'd hold off on until you find out the issue.

 

The red button: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=158647 (This is the forum joke as nearly everyone asks about it)

 

Thanks for all your replies so quickly people!!

 

I dont know off hand what the size of my off sets are. I will eventually buy new alloys for the car. What is the best size wheels to buy for the front and rear??

 

What tyres would you advise for good grip particularly in the wet?

 

you are probably right about my lack of experience driving high powered rear wheel drive cars. i am used to driving the GTO with four wheel drive and steer. I was able to open it up on corners!!. Maybe more practice and better tyres and set up would be helpfull. The car does feel soft and spongy?

 

Damn i was kind of hoping the red button was some kind of super button adding big HP!!! Like when i was a young lad and my dad used to say press that button and it is a Turbo button (Any button on the dash!!) and the car was not even a turbo car!!LOL. The things we believe when we are kids.!!!

 

I was considering changing my turbos in the future. I dont know if it would be best to buy upgrade twins or a single. I am not looking for massive HP. Maybe 450-500bhp max. I would like to have good responsive power which is why i think it may be better to stick with twins?? Will i need to upgrade any engine components such as Gaskets or anything to run this power or will the stock engine be safe??

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Thanks for all your replies so quickly people!!

 

I dont know off hand what the size of my off sets are. I will eventually buy new alloys for the car. What is the best size wheels to buy for the front and rear??

 

8x17 225/45 +50 offset on the front

9.5x17 255/40 +50 offset on the rear

 

Those are the stock sizes, if you want 18's then go for similar width and adjust tyre size to suit. Try and keep the offset as close to stock as possible. Wrong offset can destroy the cars handling and make it unstable, especially when putting the power down.

 

What tyres would you advise for good grip particularly in the wet?

 

I have personally always got on well with goodyear F1's as have many on here, there's quite a few options out there and everyone has their favourite. Michelin sport tyre's are also a good choice.

 

you are probably right about my lack of experience driving high powered rear wheel drive cars. i am used to driving the GTO with four wheel drive and steer. I was able to open it up on corners!!. Maybe more practice and better tyres and set up would be helpfull. The car does feel soft and spongy?

 

Definetly something isn't right there, I've driven a few GTO's (albeit a good few years ago when I was first looking for a GT car) and the supras I drove felt far more sure footed and nimble through the corners. If it's feeling spongy then I would certainly look towards an issue with the dampers or a faulty bush/ball joint. When you get chance, perhaps take some pics of the shock/springs on the car so they can be identified. A worn rear damper makes these cars handle terribly, so would certainly get those checked.

 

I was considering changing my turbos in the future. I dont know if it would be best to buy upgrade twins or a single. I am not looking for massive HP. Maybe 450-500bhp max. I would like to have good responsive power which is why i think it may be better to stick with twins?? Will i need to upgrade any engine components such as Gaskets or anything to run this power or will the stock engine be safe??

 

Okay, now you are getting into one area of discussion that takes place at least every week.

 

You cannot (well not in real terms) upgrade the stock turbo's to make any real power gain, so either a full single or twin kit is your option. The single kit is the preferred for street cars mainly due to the lower cost and the fast spool. Big twins are generally only used for drag or show cars as their power band is so far up the rev range.

 

key question when considering upgrade is your budget. If you want to aim beyond 420bhp, have at least £8k ready and be ready to get rid of the auto box.

 

Edit - must also say it's a pleasure to have a newbie who can type, punctuate and explain themselves without using text speak or giving half answers :)

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Welcome aboard. On the tyre side of things I would recommend Toyo T1R's for good all weather performance. I've just had a full set fitted for 500 quid. I had Eagles on for a while, but found they were very nervous when it was damp, the Toyo's feel much better and my last set lasted a good 14 months of everyday driving (albeit in an N/A)

 

Have a search round the site and the FAQ's, there is plenty of good information about what upgrades are available, cost & hassles potentially involved.

 

In the meantime, be gentle on the gas coming out of corners and have a read of Class One's driving tips.

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Okay, now you are getting into one area of discussion that takes place at least every week.

 

You cannot (well not in real terms) upgrade the stock turbo's to make any real power gain, so either a full single or twin kit is your option. The single kit is the preferred for street cars mainly due to the lower cost and the fast spool. Big twins are generally only used for drag or show cars as their power band is so far up the rev range.

 

key question when considering upgrade is your budget. If you want to aim beyond 420bhp, have at least £8k ready and be ready to get rid of the auto box.

 

Edit - must also say it's a pleasure to have a newbie who can type, punctuate and explain themselves without using text speak or giving half answers :)

 

 

Thanks for your time replying. I appreciate it.

 

I was looking on Supra Store and they have a 460BHP kit. I dont know how good these kits are??

 

I thought you could buy upgrade to hybrid turbos for twins? Obviously these would be stronger and better than stock turbos? I thought they would be suitable for more power than stock turbos?

 

When you say i will need to look at getting rid of my auto box, what power can the auto box withstand SAFELY without any risk of damage. Would it be ok running at approx 450BHP. To be honest i wanted a manual box but my budget was not quite what was required to get a nice example. I settled for this upgrade auto box only fitted on the facelift vvti models with a manual mode on the steering wheel, because the car is immaculate with only 59k on the clock:) Is this still the same auto box as previous models?? The manual mode works well to be honest??

 

One thing i do not want to do is risk damaging my car for BHP. I would rather have a reliable good running motor than living life on the edge always worrying that my box would break!

 

Like i said i dont really want more than 450BHP on the road. This is fast enough for me and i would be very happy with this power. I would rather put my money into making the engine reliable and safe, running with my modifications, such as oil coolers, intercoolers, upgrade gaskets etc. Like i said i dont know what is required or what parts can be upgraded to make my car run safer with modifications. I would like to upgrade my turbos eventually, or have my originals reconditioned. Just thought better quality hybrid upgrades would be stronger and last longer. Maybe i am wrong?

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Thanks for your time replying. I appreciate it.

 

No problem, always happy to help someone who takes the time to post clear questions.

 

I was looking on Supra Store and they have a 460BHP kit. I dont know how good these kits are??

 

Forget Suprastore (or suprascam as they are known), the figures they quote are absolute bull.

 

I thought you could buy upgrade to hybrid turbos for twins? Obviously these would be stronger and better than stock turbos? I thought they would be suitable for more power than stock turbos?

 

There are hybrid turbo's available, these allows you to sligthly raise the boost level (from 1.2 to around 1.4bar) but the power increase is small, perhaps 20bhp at the top end at most. You will loose spool though as the jspec ceramics are noticable quicker to get online. The limiting factors is the injectors. Even with stock turbo's at bpu level the fuel system is near it's maximum power. I honestly wouldn't bother with hybrids without an ecu change and it mapped to suit, they also have a pretty poor reliability record.

 

When you say i will need to look at getting rid of my auto box, what power can the auto box withstand SAFELY without any risk of damage. Would it be ok running at approx 450BHP. To be honest i wanted a manual box but my budget was not quite what was required to get a nice example. I settled for this upgrade auto box only fitted on the facelift vvti models with a manual mode on the steering wheel, because the car is immaculate with only 59k on the clock:) Is this still the same auto box as previous models?? The manual mode works well to be honest??

 

The stock auto box will handle 450bhp, but no more if you want it to last. The issue is that you are limited to around 420bhp without spending a massive amount on a single conversion, but when you do that you have 550bhp+ there is no real in-between figure unless you spoil the single by running low boost. There are auto box upgrades available but they are not that muich less than a manual conversion.

 

The auto on older models is the same as the tiptronic (A340 I think). The only difference is the buttons on the wheel, just saves you having to move the auto lever.

 

One thing i do not want to do is risk damaging my car for BHP. I would rather have a reliable good running motor than living life on the edge always worrying that my box would break!

 

Provided the engine and components are in good condition you shouldn't have a problem. It's been tried and tested for over 10 years and the only issue is the occasional turbo failure, but that doesn't seem to be related to the BPU mods themselves. I did 36k miles at 1.25 bar over 3.5 years and the engine was as good as new before the single conversion. Many others have done massive miles at BPU levels. Provided its done right and is maintained it's not an issue.

 

Like i said i dont really want more than 450BHP on the road. This is fast enough for me and i would be very happy with this power. I would rather put my money into making the engine reliable and safe, running with my modifications, such as oil coolers, intercoolers, upgrade gaskets etc. Like i said i dont know what is required or what parts can be upgraded to make my car run safer with modifications. I would like to upgrade my turbos eventually, or have my originals reconditioned. Just thought better quality hybrid upgrades would be stronger and last longer. Maybe i am wrong?

 

Given what you've said, I'd recommend you just stick with the stock turbo's and stick to BPU mods and perhaps a boost controller and aftermarket ECU and map. Reconditioned turbo's won't make any difference unless the originals were faulty in the first place. Hybrids tend to be far less reliable than stock ones.

 

A decent side mount intercooler (See Chris Wilson's ones), a full service, free flowing exhaust, BC, ECU, required gauges, slightly larger injectors and perhaps even an engine oil cooler will all help keep things in check and no reason it won't last 100k miles if looked after well. No need to change any gaskets unless they are faulty.

 

One final misconception - stock air filter system is better than aftermarket ones. I only mention it as thats likely to be asked in future.

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Like i said i dont really want more than 450BHP on the road. This is fast enough for me and i would be very happy with this power. I would rather put my money into making the engine reliable and safe, running with my modifications, such as oil coolers, intercoolers, upgrade gaskets etc.

 

You might want to consider upgrading your suspension and brakes too, both of these will allow you to use the power you already have more effectively and safely.

 

Also rltc has often been mentioned my Supra owners as the single best mod you can do and will go quite a way into helping your twitchy back end!

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Welcome aboard. On the tyre side of things I would recommend Toyo T1R's for good all weather performance. I've just had a full set fitted for 500 quid. I had Eagles on for a while, but found they were very nervous when it was damp, the Toyo's feel much better and my last set lasted a good 14 months of everyday driving (albeit in an N/A)

 

[/url].

 

Toyo's for me as well , changed my Eagle F1's to toyo T1r's and havent looked back since .

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No problem, always happy to help someone who takes the time to post clear questions.

 

 

 

Forget Suprastore (or suprascam as they are known), the figures they quote are absolute bull.

 

Ok i will try whifbitz or Envy maybe (Any other suggestions??)

 

 

 

There are hybrid turbo's available, these allows you to sligthly raise the boost level (from 1.2 to around 1.4bar) but the power increase is small, perhaps 20bhp at the top end at most. You will loose spool though as the jspec ceramics are noticable quicker to get online. The limiting factors is the injectors. Even with stock turbo's at bpu level the fuel system is near it's maximum power. I honestly wouldn't bother with hybrids without an ecu change and it mapped to suit, they also have a pretty poor reliability record.

 

Excellent advice. Probably saved me wasting money!!!

 

The stock auto box will handle 450bhp, but no more if you want it to last. The issue is that you are limited to around 420bhp without spending a massive amount on a single conversion, but when you do that you have 550bhp+ there is no real in-between figure unless you spoil the single by running low boost. There are auto box upgrades available but they are not that muich less than a manual conversion.

 

I think 420bhp will be sufice!! With bpu mods i am sure i will notice a substantial difference to standard tune? I know this subject has probably been exhausted on this site but do you hve a rough idea of cost for a manuel conversion?

 

 

Provided the engine and components are in good condition you shouldn't have a problem. It's been tried and tested for over 10 years and the only issue is the occasional turbo failure, but that doesn't seem to be related to the BPU mods themselves. I did 36k miles at 1.25 bar over 3.5 years and the engine was as good as new before the single conversion. Many others have done massive miles at BPU levels. Provided its done right and is maintained it's not an issue.

 

 

I think my engine is in very good working order. She runs very quiet and smooth, no nastly noises or bumps!! As should be the case with 59k on the clock!

 

 

A decent side mount intercooler (See Chris Wilson's ones), a full service, free flowing exhaust, BC, ECU, required gauges, slightly larger injectors and perhaps even an engine oil cooler will all help keep things in check and no reason it won't last 100k miles if looked after well. No need to change any gaskets unless they are faulty.

One final misconception - stock air filter system is better than aftermarket ones. I only mention it as thats likely to be asked in future.

 

 

fantastic advice. just what i needed. I think i will stick with stock turbos and go with bpu mods and add reliability mods such as intercooler and maybe oil cooler.

 

I would like to conclude by saying a big thank you for your time and help. This has helped me a great deal and give me a good guide to the modifications required for me.

 

this is my first post on the forum and i must say i would like to thank you all for a warm welcome. prticularly to Homer who has been a great help.:)

 

Thanks

Stratts

Edited by Stratt (see edit history)
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It's a bit difficult to reply to multi-quotes, so will reply in one go here.

 

The BPU mods make an enormous difference to the performance of the car. It's not so much the peak power that increases, but the spool of the turbos and general driveability. The thump in the back when the 2nd turbo spools is something else with bpu, though you have to be careful with the auto box to make sure it doesn't catch you out.

 

The 6spd conversion costs around £2.5k fited last time I looked, but there tends to be a waiting list as the getrag box is in high demand and difficult to find (even for the specialists here)

 

Good luck with the car and don't be afraid to use that search button, there is a massive amount of information on the forum when it comes to modifications :D

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Aye homer knows his stuff!

 

He certainly does and he has been a big help:)

 

Sorry about the reply i am not used to replying to seperate quotes!! I will get there.

 

I am sure i will enjoy my car

 

Thanks Guys

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Hi Everybody!!

 

I am a new member to this club

 

Welcome to the club :thumbs: Any :Pics:

 

The first thing I'd do would be to take the car to a specialist and get it thoroughly checked over. Get it serviced and get the geometry done, also fit a decent set of tyres. This should make a big difference to the handling and grip.

 

cheers

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Eagle F1 Asymetric........ for tyre choice they lead the market for wet and dry grip levels at the moment. (That is before you go into dedicated track tyres)

Spoken to numerous people who have these fitted and they are a leap ahead of the competition.

When my F1 GSD3's run out I will also be switching to them.

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  • 4 months later...
Hi Everybody!!

 

I am a new member to this club so be nice!!!

 

I have just purchased a 1997 TT VVTI Auto with the manual overide on the steering wheel.

 

I am very happy with the car which is running more or less standard except full Miami GT stainless exhaust.

 

I have only driven the car a few time due to work etc. However, i got caught in the wet on my first day in the car and found that the car was very difficult to drive quick without the rear wheels spinning very badly and causing the back end to skid out. I must say i find the handling of this car to be very touchy and unpredictable.

 

I previously owned a subaru impreza and a very nice club members GTO TT which i had to sell due to a seperation. I will be honest i was looking for another GTO but after months of searching and driving hundreds of miles around the country to so called MINT examples (NOT) i gave up and realised i will not find another GTO like my old one (MINT). I loved my GTO which was running at approx 360bhp. It was very quick and handled amazingly. In fact it handled better than my impreza. I only bought the impreza after my seperation as an every day car. But now i am sorted out again with my garage i wanted another weekend toy!! Actually i was supprised today when i had a subaru classic (WRX i think) up my back side and when i turned the corner i opened up my throttle in manual mode and he was right on my backside. I would have thought the Supra would have pulled away from him??? Maybe i need a few mods first.

 

What sort of mods will i need to reach approx 450BHP??

 

I have always loved Supras (who doesnt!!) and had an N/A before. But was always worried about the grip and handling. I find it very difficult to use the power of may SupraTT even in standard form?? God knows what it will be like if i go for more power. I was hoping to upgrade to approx 450bhp eventually, but am now concerned it will be a knightmare to drive?

 

Maybe it is the tyres on the car or the fact it is runnig on standard suspension?? The car has 18" wheels with brand new Nan kan tyres??

 

I also would like to ask if anybody knows what the red button is for at the front on the front of the auto gear stick. It has japanese writing next to it. I pushed it but nothing really hppened??

 

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Take a look

 

http://www.mkiv.com/faq/faqtt.html#bpu1

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Welcome!!! :)

 

just a quick question about your last gto. ive never had one but there seems to be a mixed opinion of the handling on them, whether be stock or aftermarket suspension. Few people told me they handle like a whale lol. others said like on rails. this is one of the reasons i didn't get one few years back but just want to know are they that good/bad?

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Welcome!!! :)

 

just a quick question about your last gto. ive never had one but there seems to be a mixed opinion of the handling on them, whether be stock or aftermarket suspension. Few people told me they handle like a whale lol. others said like on rails. this is one of the reasons i didn't get one few years back but just want to know are they that good/bad?

 

The gto i had handled like a scalextric car :) it was on very soft yokohama's though ;)

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