View Full Version : octane boosters??? do they actually work???
adnanshah247
12-06-08, 03:14
hi, i was advised that wen i get my sup on the drag strip at japfest i should try and get the car to a higher octane level. understandable!
whats bugging me is i have done a few searches and found loads of stuff like this:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DYNO-TAB-MAXIMUM-STRENGTH-OCTANE-BOOSTER-TABLETS-x-10_W0QQitemZ220243392429QQihZ012QQcategoryZ122139QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
does this stuff actually work or is it a bunch of bull????
any better way of getting higher octance fuel into the engine???
race fuel is an option - engine will need to be mapped to cope with the high octane rating.
Unleaded race fuel can be over 120RON. But lower octane values are also available.
Octane boosters work ok on the lower grade fuel... ie.RON95... and will raise it by 1or2 points. Many tests in the past show it has little effect on RON97 or higher.
(I will try to find the web link for back up of this statement)
The review they did on Fifth Gear showed that the products they tested either reduced or made no difference to horsepower. Don't bother with them.
Get some Toluene and use a 10% mix.
I attempted to prove this on an RR in my previous car. 2 runs - same day. With std V-power the results were slightly better than v-power + entire bottle of octane booster.
Obviously not 100% conclusive results as soo many variables - but it certainly didn't give me better results as you'd hope.
As Thorin said - 5th gear showed a loss in power - I think they quoted around 2-3% loss!
The review they did on Fifth Gear showed that the products they tested either reduced or made no difference to horsepower. Don't bother with them.
Get some Toluene and use a 10% mix.
Can you explain more about the Toluene please?
Can you explain more about the Toluene please?
Paint thinners, not particularly nice stuff, but provides a decent boost to octane. A 10% mix is safe, and much better than some tiny bottle. I'm no chemist.
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/2480-octane-booster.html?highlight=octane+booster
If you have plenty of time....
The thread actually goes in a few different directions so best read it all, each to their own but its a waste of money imho
Better to import race fuel - or spend the money on mods to make your car faster all the time:)
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/2480-octane-booster.html?highlight=octane+booster
Jesus Christ that old thing, good old Mycroft. Personally I'd avoid reading through all that you'll never get that time back.
Personally I'd avoid reading through all that you'll never get that time back.
Wish someone would have told me that when I first read it:(:D
Chris Wilson
13-06-08, 12:50
A recent magazine did a proper dyno test of most of the common UK bottled additives, a couple were shown to work well 9the 2 most expensive ones i think). I can't recall which they were, but I'll try and find the magazine and report back. If you need more octane toluene at 10% by volume is excellent, cheap and fairly easily available. Avgas 100LL is cheap, and has a good octane rating with perfect consistency, but has lead in it, so O2 sensors need lifing, and cats are a no no. You can't beat buying proper race fuel though.
How about sticking in some 102 Octane BP stuff? Expensive mind.
Chris Wilson
13-06-08, 13:21
You are paying duty for no good reason, assuming the fuel is just used on track, proper race fuel can be higher octane, yet cheaper.
You are paying duty for no good reason, assuming the fuel is just used on track, proper race fuel can be higher octane, yet cheaper.
o'rlly.....
Hmmm, that is interesting.. I'm still toying with the option of E85 or avgas, depending which one I can source easier for the NA. Any nasties with using the avgas stuff?
E85 requires a special pump and fuel lines designated for use with alcohol based fuels I believe. You'll also need flex-fuel sensors and some way of controlling it all.
E85 requires a special pump and fuel lines designated for use with alcohol based fuels I believe. You'll also need flex-fuel sensors and some way of controlling it all.
Yeah, that is the least of the worries, that I can happily do, ironically it is obtaining the fuel that appears to be the issue..hence the reason AVGAS is top of the list.
E85 requires a special pump and fuel lines designated for use with alcohol based fuels I believe.
The guys in the US have been using the Walbro pumps with E85 and as long as the fuel isnt sitting in contact with ally for any length of time you should be ok.
One issue is that to get the same power you need approx twice as much fuel, ie a 500hp supra would need 1000cc injectors or dual stage injection.
You'll also need flex-fuel sensors and some way of controlling it all.
Only if you want to mix the fuel in your tank, the flex-fuel sensor can determine the mixture of E85 vs petrol which then gives you the ability to adjust timing and fueling, the output from the flex-fuel sensor is not something an AEM understands at the moment which is a shame, someone did look at converting the output into a 0-5v signal but I have not been following for a while.
You can however run without a flex-fuel sensor and have a seperate E85 map, this is how I was going to do it but the availability of the fuel has put on a stopper on it for the time being.
AVGAS is top of the list.
I am interested in this as well ;)
Avgas 100LL is cheap, and has a good octane rating with perfect consistency, but has lead in it, so O2 sensors need lifing, and cats are a no no.
Any nasties with using the avgas stuff?
Toulen seems to be best choice without fiddling with sensors.
Only if you want to mix the fuel in your tank, the flex-fuel sensor can determine the mixture of E85 vs petrol which then gives you the ability to adjust timing and fueling
I was under the impression the flex-fuel sensor was still needed because of the fact that there are different summer and winter blends of E85. Contains less Ethynol in the colder winter months to aid starting?
I was under the impression the flex-fuel sensor was still needed because of the fact that there are different summer and winter blends of E85. Contains less Ethynol in the colder winter months to aid starting?
This could well be the case with E85 at the pump, its been a while since I looked into it.
I was going to try some E85 race fuel which obviously is consistant.
Shell Avga 100LL prices :-
BOURNEMOUTH (INTERNATIONAL) AVGAS 100LL : 105 PLT
LIVERPOOL J. LENNON ARPT (ITP) AVGAS 100LL : 108 PLT
ISLE OF MAN (RONALDSWAY) AVGAS 100LL : 112 PLT
105 seems resonable, I am sure there are more supplys about ;)
Whats the prices in British Kudos?:d
Whats the prices in British Kudos?:d
PLT = British Pence per Litre
Chris Wilson
13-06-08, 14:52
I run one of the race car on 50/50 Avgas and SUL, the other on proper race fuel as it has a sky high CR
I run one of the race car on 50/50 Avgas and SUL, the other on proper race fuel as it has a sky high CR
Whats the advantage of a 50/50 mix?
Chris Wilson
13-06-08, 15:05
Helps up the lower burn rate of neat Avgas. I can get you Avgas if you need it, there's loads of flying places round here that will sell to me.
Helps up the lower burn rate of neat Avgas. I can get you Avgas if you need it, there's loads of flying places round here that will sell to me.
Interesting, what benefits can be had with a 50/50 mix and how much do you get it for?
I'm going to try the local airfield near me, luckily it is only 10 miles away just hope they sell it..
I've got two options... (although it seems there is a lot more)
Popham airfield or Blackbushe airfield..
Popham - http://www.popham-airfield.co.uk/Fuel.htm (£1.70/l)
Blackbushe seems to have it listed at 1.528/l
Bournemouth airfield seems to list it at 1.150/l...
Thruxton - 1.550/l
http://www.thehangar.co.uk/fuel/fuel.shtml
I'm going to try the local airfield near me, luckily it is only 10 miles away just hope they sell it..
I've got two options...
Popham airfield or Blackbushe airfield..
There are a couple of airfields near me as well, not sure if you can just walk in and buy some :D
I'm going to try the local airfield near me, luckily it is only 10 miles away just hope they sell it..
I've got two options...
Popham airfield or Blackbushe airfield..
Or Lasham :)
Or Lasham :)
Good thinking that man... :p
Good thinking that man... :p
I just thought they might be more likely to sell stuff as they are a relatively small gliding club rather than a full-on airfield... could be completely mis-guided there though :d
I just thought they might be more likely to sell stuff as they are a relatively small gliding club rather than a full-on airfield... could be completely mis-guided there though :d
Here is the ironic thing, at present I'm sat 50m's away from one of the main runways at Gatwick, need to make friends with a bloke who drives a fuel lorry I reckon :)
Chris Wilson
13-06-08, 15:26
Some fields will just sell it you, they all insist on proper fuel safe containers though. Some require a registration number from a legit aircraft. As for price Wez, it varies like car petrol, but nationally seems to stay within a few pence a litre all over the UK. I think there's about a 100 litres in the truck still.
Some fields will just sell it you, they all insist on proper fuel safe containers though. Some require a registration number from a legit aircraft. As for price Wez, it varies like car petrol, but nationally seems to stay within a few pence a litre all over the UK. I think there's about a 100 litres in the truck still.
Not sure if I roll down the runway here, they will 'fill er up', wonder if it is worth a go :) (Just kidding)
Popham, do actually have a price for non-air craft usage, it is a bit more expensive but then I guess they just let you take it away in a proper container. Might have to invest in a metal jerry can this weekend.
http://www.thehangar.co.uk/fuel/fuel.shtml
Great site that :thumbs:
EGLD Denham 1.410 2008-05-17
EGLL Heathrow 1.230 2007-10-15
EGTF FAIROAKS AVGAS 100L 1.340 2007-11-25
OK so this seems like it could be easily available.
What are the benefits of running pure Avgas or a 50/50 mix with say VPower?
What is the stoich of this AVGAS, I once read 11.1 but not sure,
I gather it would be similar in fuel to gasoline under highboost where you would have to run on the rich side of stoich, so running at around 9.1-9.2afr, or does the characteristics allow you to use less?
Apparently 100/130 (green) and 100LL (blue) are basically the same except 100LL has half as much lead.
There seems to be a few different blends of Avgas.
Chris Wilson
13-06-08, 15:58
I have never seen anything other than 100LL at normal private airfields, I know military bases used to use higher lead content, maybe higher octane, for very high altitude stuff.
SupraHuman
13-06-08, 16:59
Back to the Toluene option again.Is it just a matter of filling up with i.e 97 ron and then add 10% toulene of what amount you just put in it?Doing a track day at Le Mans in august and don't mind the extra bhp it might provide.
Back to the Toluene option again.Is it just a matter of filling up with i.e 97 ron and then add 10% toulene of what amount you just put in it?Doing a track day at Le Mans in august and don't mind the extra bhp it might provide.
Since you are running a GT35R at 1.6bar I guess you have a mapped standalone ECU, if this is the case then you wont gain anything unless you have the map tweaked for it, bit like a race fuel map.
You could however run it for added safety a bit like water/meth injection.
Chris Wilson
13-06-08, 17:03
Yes, so if you add 10 gallons of petrol you add 1 gallon of toluene. I used to work it like that with the GTR. I took 4 25 litre drums of SU and a 2 gallon container of toluene. That would last for the average track time I ran, and fitted in the car with all the other stuff I took quite easily.
Do you have to mix it properly or just chuck it in the tank after the SUL and let it mix while you hammer round the track?
SupraHuman
13-06-08, 17:09
Since you are running a GT35R at 1.6bar I guess you have a mapped standalone ECU, if this is the case then you wont gain anything unless you have the map tweaked for it, bit like a race fuel map.
You could however run it for added safety a bit like water/meth injection.
Hi Wez,
yes I got a AEM unit fitted.Car is with M.Lane atm and Ryan's gonna map it again due to a misfire issue.Will tell him to take the toulene option in to consideration.
Cheers
SupraHuman
13-06-08, 17:12
Yes, so if you add 10 gallons of petrol you add 1 gallon of toluene. I used to work it like that with the GTR. I took 4 25 litre drums of SU and a 2 gallon container of toluene. That would last for the average track time I ran, and fitted in the car with all the other stuff I took quite easily.
Sound Chris,will bring toulene with me when I go to France.
Just to be safe I better ask,if mixed correctly it will not harm my fuel pumps/lines engine in any way?
Cheers.
Chris Wilson
13-06-08, 17:31
It'll mix by the action of the pump and general sloshing about. Doesn't need pre mixing. It won't harm normal petrol hoses or fittings, in fact pump fuel already contains quite a lot of toluene.
SupraHuman
13-06-08, 17:34
It'll mix by the action of the pump and general sloshing about. Doesn't need pre mixing. It won't harm normal petrol hoses or fittings, in fact pump fuel already contains quite a lot of toluene.
SWEET,cheers Chris :).
Popped into a local airfield and asked if it was possible to buy some Avgas. The guy on the ground asked what it was for, I explained a track motor and he said people sometimes come along and fill up for bikes etc and told me to ask the station manager.
The station manager said no chance :(
Chris Wilson
15-06-08, 18:37
Just let me know how much you need and I'll get you some, minimum is 50 litres wes.
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