Wez Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hey All, Just come across this on SF and thought someone here might be interested, I havent seen this manifold before. http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/a15/ETS-Twin-Scroll-Supra-Manifold/article_info.html No good for me as I prefer cast units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Oooh nice - looks like a full race copy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Look at the welds next to the stud holes. not good Would need C washers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ETS Tom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Oooh nice - looks like a full race copy.. The manifold is actually 100% designed, developed and fabricated here in house at ETS in Washington State, USA. We have a true twin scroll design with twin wastegates as well. Here is the link to all of the pictures of that manifold - http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/a22/ETS-Supra-Twin-Scroll-Manifold-With-Dual-Wastegates/article_info.html http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/dualwgsupra/7.jpg http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/dualwgsupra/10.jpg Here's a link to get a better idea of what we do http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/ETS-Accomplishments/t2/articles.html Look at the welds next to the stud holes. not good Would need C washers? The manifold actually mocked up before shipment to the customer without anything other than standard washers, so the picture may be a bit misleading to that end. Tom @ ETS http://www.extremeturbosystems.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 I see some manifold designs seperate the two banks, I think for expansion, how come you choose not too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Blimey, ETS got here quick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ETS Tom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I see some manifold designs seperate the two banks, I think for expansion, how come you choose not too? Exhaust pulses are separated into the two banks all the way to the turbine inlet flange in our twin scroll manifolds as you can see below, and that separation is then continued into a divided turbine housing pictured below that. The twin scroll design is intended to separate exhaust pulses to improve spool and response. http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/dualwgsupra/6.jpg http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3262/dividedgy8.jpg Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Sorry, I didnt mean the exhaust pulses and twin scroll. The manifold plate which has the piping welded to it, I see that some other brands have these seperated, normally a notch cut out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 What you selling these at then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ETS Tom Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Sorry, I didnt mean the exhaust pulses and twin scroll. The manifold plate which has the piping welded to it, I see that some other brands have these seperated, normally a notch cut out. The theory behind notched head flanges is that because runners will glow under heavy load and manifold flanges only get to about 250 degrees, that the notch prevents warping of the flange when the cooling runners pull on the head flange. It has been our experience over the many years and high horsepower builds that a solid head flange actually prevents warpage best. We warranty our manifolds for life and can offer that, because we basically never have a claim What you selling these at then? The twin scroll manifolds with twin Tial 44mm flanges are $xxxx. Given the US dollar lately, you guys clean up on that deal Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 The reason the runner flanges are cut into two sections Wes, on some manifolds, is that a six pot engine necessitates a long manifold flange. This can grow in length substantially as it heats up. You can either drill the stud holes oversize so the growth doesn't try and snap the studs (a common problem on Nissan GTS-T stock manifolds), and accept the flange is walking down the gasket and back, and in time wears it, or you can divide it into two or more sections which don't elongate nearly as much. The fange elongation also stresses the header pipes of course. The stock TT manifold has a very neat bellows section in the middle for precisely that reason. It's also the reason it uses oversize stud holes, special nuts and a trick and expensive manifold to head gasket, and O ring seals from the manifold to the turbo. A LOT of forethought and care went into it, and it's made of top quality high nickel content iron. Ever heard of one cracking? Neither have I. Or blowing? I fail to see why a publicity photo shows the flange to header pipe weld encroaching into the stud hole, is that a how NOT to do it photo that's escaped? What means are provided for turbo and wastegate support? Or are they just expected to hang there on red hot stainless tubes and not do anything untoward? Does this set up fit RHD cars? Are downpipes available for RHD cars with facilities for the wastegates to plumb back into the silencing system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Tom, did ETS experiment which header pipe went into each side of the turbine housing to account for firing order and exhaust pulses? Chris- would it be better to have six individual flanges instead of two groups of three to combat heat expansion or would that be overkill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 IMO splitting into 2 groups of 3 would be the best option, with oversized stud holes drilled to centre every stud in the holes when cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ETS Tom Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Chris, I'm not sure where the encroachment of the weld onto the washer/bolt space provision came up but I thought I addressed it when I noted that the bolt and washer were tightened down on that flange without issue We build our manifolds in a jig that is bolted up to a mock head that not only ensures perfect fitment but also that the flange stays completely flat without any distortion while being welded. This makes certain that not only will the manifold place the turbo and wastegate perfectly but also that there will be zero installation issues for our customers. We guarantee and warranty our manifolds for life with no questions asked so there would be absolutely no reason to ship a manifold with any issue (or longevity concern) whatsoever due to the expense incurred in shipping heavy manifolds back and forth and correcting defects. Our Supra manifolds have been around for many years and are running on single second drag cars that wheelie and slam back down with GT47 or GT55 turbos hanging from them. I can't honestly recall a single Supra manifold we've had to warranty for cracking or any other problem. Our cars here are obviously LHD so kits will be built around that platform. One of our employees drives a RHD MKIV that we use for specific requests related to RHD cars. We are not offering wastegate recirculation as an option on any of the turbo kits. Gazboy, The manifolds are built with the exact firing order to fully capitalize on the effects of a twin scroll design; however, I've heard from several major US turbocharger manufacturers with which we deal that their testing has shown negligible to no difference in spool, transient response or top end regardless of cylinder orientation in the twin scroll order. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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