gt40/88, design problem maybe

i have had my turbo swapped, and it seems it has suffered the same fate as jamies one, also ryan g, and i think there are a few more out there, but mine has done less than 2000 miles, surely its a design fault, or just crap turbo maybe, any thoughts:(

Mine had the same fate I believe, never figured out if it was 2 Step or high EGTs that killed it

Anti-Lag/2-step will kill any turbo but seeing as the 4088 is a repurposed diesel truck turbo I think all bets are off.

What manifold was yours run on jevansio? As im still of the opinion the damage is caused by loose welds from manifolds that have not been internally cleaned.

Hmm...

was inside mine a few times over the last 6 months and no damage at all.

remember jay and I are using the R version, most others are non bb.

I run mine 1.5 bar quite a bit.

Mine had the same fate I believe, never figured out if it was 2 Step or high EGTs that killed it

you and I also ran .68 ar which pushes up the egts too.

My manifold is a Sound Performance jobbie

From my understanding the GT4088 is the truck turbo and costs approx £500, the GT4088R costs more than double.

I am guessing its the GT4088 not the R that is failing.

I recall diesels run approx 200deg lower EGT but stand to be corrected as it was a long time ago I looked into it.

From my understanding the GT4088 is the truck turbo and costs approx £500, the GT4088R costs more than double.

 

I am guessing its the GT4088 not the R that is failing.

 

I recall diesels run approx 200deg lower EGT but stand to be corrected as it was a long time ago I looked into it.

Not saying that using an application from an HGV is a good thing, but remember these things will be at full boost for four hours at a time as they trundle around our motorway network.

Not saying that using an application from an HGV is a good thing, but remember these things will be at full boost for four hours at a time as they trundle around our motorway network.

Really, when I am driving round the motorway on cruise my boost is nil unless I want to overtake somethnig.

I know a lorry engine pulling a heavy load will see more engine load but surely not full boost.

From my understanding the GT4088 is the truck turbo and costs approx £500, the GT4088R costs more than double.

 

I am guessing its the GT4088 not the R that is failing.

 

I recall diesels run approx 200deg lower EGT but stand to be corrected as it was a long time ago I looked into it.

I think Jamie P lunched a journal and wez lunched an R

From my understanding the GT4088 is the truck turbo and costs approx £500, the GT4088R costs more than double.

 

I am guessing its the GT4088 not the R that is failing.

 

I recall diesels run approx 200deg lower EGT but stand to be corrected as it was a long time ago I looked into it.

Mine is a GT4088 (precision) running 560bhp, just had it apart and turbine looks as new. 2 step or antilag will kill turbos. BTW, a T61 costs almost half a T61dbb.

I think Jamie P lunched a journal and wez lunched an R

I didnt

Mine is a GT4088 (precision) running 560bhp' date=' just had it apart and turbine looks as new. 2 step or antilag will kill turbos. BTW, a T61 costs almost half a T61dbb.[/quote']

 

I am not disagreeing with you

 

My turbo isnt a T61DBB as you know, hell its not even a T61.

Really, when I am driving round the motorway on cruise my boost is nil unless I want to overtake somethnig.

 

I know a lorry engine pulling a heavy load will see more engine load but surely not full boost.

According to the truckies on PH, a HGV is at WOT all the time. They mentioned the throttle being set so you could have your foot flat on the floor for comfort instead of hovering for hours at a time.

To be fair when you hear a lorry go past they do whistle a lot, you'd think a 8.0 V6 would sound a bit meatier unless you've got a turbo spinning it's nuts off.

I dont know enough about trucks to comment but a turbo going flat out for the whole journey is very impressive if that is the case.

Would the turbo be spinning at the same speed I wonder.

Most diesels don't use a throttle plate to control air, they use a metering unit to control the fuel, the intake side is at "full throttle" all the time, but that's NOT the same as being on full boost all the time. EGT's on diesels are afr far lower than petrol driven engines, and using a turbo designed for diesel will result in short life, failed turbine castings through cracking and warping, and failed turbine wheels. They may well try and run over there design RPM maximum under none stock usage too. IMO proper turbos are made directly by Garrett, KKK, Mitsubishi, IHI et cetera, buy odd ball ones at your peril. Quite why anyone thinks that a manifold made in China, boxed, shipped to the west and sold at a profit for about 80 quid trade will do anything more than cause grief I don't know. Price up OE turbo manifolds and then double or triple it for low volume ones to see what you probably need to spend to get something worthwhile. All in my humble opinion Those that have built reiable single turbo set ups, and who use to do reasonable mileages will tell you that it costs far more than many will have you think, to build a proper set up.

Apart from Gaz's and Ryan's tubbies can anyone comment on what the exhaust wheels looked like on those that failed? Did they look melted/worn or like shrapnel had been through them as Ryans did?

Most diesels don't use a throttle plate to control air, they use a metering unit to control the fuel, the intake side is at "full throttle" all the time, but that's NOT the same as being on full boost all the time. EGT's on diesels are afr far lower than petrol driven engines, and using a turbo designed for diesel will result in short life, failed turbine castings through cracking and warping, and failed turbine wheels. They may well try and run over there design RPM maximum under none stock usage too. IMO proper turbos are made directly by Garrett, KKK, Mitsubishi, IHI et cetera, buy odd ball ones at your peril. Quite why anyone thinks that a manifold made in China, boxed, shipped to the west and sold at a profit for about 80 quid trade will do anything more than cause grief I don't know. Price up OE turbo manifolds and then double or triple it for low volume ones to see what you probably need to spend to get something worthwhile. All in my humble opinion Those that have built reiable single turbo set ups, and who use to do reasonable mileages will tell you that it costs far more than many will have you think, to build a proper set up.

Amen to that !

Not another one.

Im 100% sure that Jays was caused by the EGT's that his engine was seeing at the time it went. When they are over 1050c which Jays were, the thinnest part of the blade will start to go through some extreme heat cycles and eventually will just fail, causing bits of the turbine to fall away and cause the results which i saw from abit of weld.

Here is a comparison of mine (left) and Jays (right).

You can just see from the colour of Jays that some serious heat and lean burns have been through that exhaust housing

If yours is almost white Gaz like Jays then i would bet that yours has been through some similar events. If that is the case make sure you get your cylinder head face checked to see it is 100% straight.

Ryan

I think, from those pictures and piccies I've got of my T67, that the exhaust vanes are noticeably thinner on the 4088 than the 67. I wonder if there is a durability issue here in that they can't take any dose of foreign object, overheat, or antilag?

Turbos shouldn't have to endure those things anyway of course, I'm just wondering if that's why we've seen a few 4088 series failures and other turbos that get the same 'abuse'/issues survive it relatively intact?

-Ian

I have had my T61 referbed and the exhaust side was absolutly fine. Was mapped by dan and run for a few months like that. It was also running 2 step rev limit which im quick trigger happy at using. No sign of damage from that either.

Sounds like the quality or thinkness might be the issue not the 2 step.

Not another one.

 

Im 100% sure that Jays was caused by the EGT's that his engine was seeing at the time it went. When they are over 1050c which Jays were, the thinnest part of the blade will start to go through some extreme heat cycles and eventually will just fail, causing bits of the turbine to fall away and cause the results which i saw from abit of weld.

 

Here is a comparison of mine (left) and Jays (right).

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=67995&d=1196883325

 

You can just see from the colour of Jays that some serious heat and lean burns have been through that exhaust housing

 

If yours is almost white Gaz like Jays then i would bet that yours has been through some similar events. If that is the case make sure you get your cylinder head face checked to see it is 100% straight.

 

Ryan

i have not actualy seen it but hope sean may take a few pics so hopefully we can find the cause

I will try to get some pics tonight if i can get the hotside housing actually off as its would budge the when i gave it a go the other day! I just looked down the blades from the back of the tubby and you can clearly see the serrated edge.

I used my antilag all the time on the first turbo and that didnt last long, the second one i had it disabled and that was fine.

mine, and yes it was journal bearing.